Crimson Arrow

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe A massive EMP being generated in some way? However, that wouldn't necessarily stop the technology eventually being replaced, which I think might be what you are after. How about the world's reserves of silicon being destroyed or lost? Perhaps a character like Marvel's Sandman gets a massive power upgrade and takes over all the world's sand. To defeat him, he gets dumped into another dimension, taking a lot of usable silicon with him. Mind you, that would leave you without beaches, or sand for concrete too. Could some powerful villain seize the silicon supplies, then use them up, or trade them off to an inter-galactic villain? No silicon = no silicon chips. I imagine someone is now going to tell me that they've stopped using silicon (I'm not very techie).

Re: Returning player needs Multipower Assistance I'm not sure what you think the problem is. Don't forget the it's the Active Points in the Power which count for whether or not it can fit inside the Multipower, not the Real Cost. I think you've got that, though. The slot cost is found by taking the Real Cost of the slot and dividing by 10 if it's a Fixed or Ultra slot or by 5 if it's a Multi or Flexible slot. You've also forgotten to give each of the slots the Limitation 'Only In Heroic ID'.

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want? I've just finished reading this thread and boy are my arms tired. First, I'd suggest that there must be some kind of regional flavour to the characters, or else one could just use villains from CKC and change the backgrounds. However, they don't all need to have powers or origins stemming from their country of origin. To be of value, I think all of them should touch on their homeland in some way. For example, there could be a standard brick type character who, as someone suggested earlier, used to be a hero in communist times. Nowadays, his ideology makes him a villain. The relevance comes from the background. His name needn't refer to Russia, or East Germany or whatever. Apart from his background, he could come from anywhere. If he doesn't even have that going for him, he might as well be Ogre, or Ripper, or whatever. Similarly, (and again as mentioned above) a Muslim character could be a hero to his own country and a good man, but absolutely hate American foreign policy. He could have any powers whatsoever. The significance comes from his views. There's a fine line between regional flavour and stereotyping and I'd hate to see the rude French person, cowardly Italian, snooty/Cockney Brit (well, that's in another supplement, I know), boring Belgian, or anything like that. I'd also like to avoid 'The Mighty Kangaroo', the leaping Australian totem character with a wicked kick, or 'Salsa', the fiery Mexican/South American temptress, who can entrance you with her sensual dances. However, something like luchadores could work (I know we aren't getting any, sadly), because they have been portrayed as superheroes in films, they wear masks and know how to fight (well, you know what I mean). It's regional, but still makes sense. I suppose I'd look at it as being, "If a person from that country created a superhero or villain, what might they do?" I'm British and creating a character who'd been given Excalibur by the Lady of the Lake would be fine. A villain who was a soccer hooligan who got superpowers might not be (although now that I think about it, I did that once). A superpowered Beefeater would be absurd, for example. Second, I think information about CU fictional countries must go in. Where else can we find out about them? Third, I'd like some pointers on different attitudes to supers in different parts of the world and some bullet points about population sizes, industries, languages, that sort of thing. This should be enough to enable people to make characters from those countries either from scratch, or convert characters from other products and change the names to protect the guilty. If there's room, a little information on local legends and cryptozoology would be great. Fourth, I'd like some powerful heroes. As people have said, at the moment, it's largely the villains who seem to have the points. However, in my view it's often easier to add stuff to characters than to trim them down. I'd favour the bulk of them pitched around the 350 point mark (perhaps slightly higher, like 400), but maybe with slightly more detail than usual on increasing the power level. I personally don't think there's a need for too many more megavillains, as there are quite a few in the CU already. I'm undecided about whether I'd like fewer write-ups, but all full, or if I'd prefer more characters, but some in abbreviated form.

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? I was thinking of Black Canary II, but I think her continuity got very muddled, didn't it? I meant the current DC universe BC II, not the one who was once her own mother (or whatever it was). However, the example does work the other way round, in fact it probably works even better!

Re: Viperia: Less Pow Than Champions?? Sounds really interesting. Mind telling us who was on each side and how Defender got killed? While I wouldn't say that I am not at all interested, I'd rather see what some of the other teams look like too. By the way, the original question was whether or not the Champions are More Powerful than Viperia. Even leaving outside the Rapid Firing of AE NND attacks, could anyone say that they are More Powerful? Sounds to me that they are probably As Powerful, even when taking into accont other resources, friends and allies, etc. Those sorts of things are useful, but not enough to make them More Powerful, in my view.

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? I had to cut short my post yesterday, as I needed to be somewhere else, but yes, I had noticed this (along with an attempt to trim back excessive DEX scores which had begun to proliferate in 4th Ed. as far back as The Whip in 'Classic Enemies'). It's still not (generally) in the level of one-punch takeouts for major heroes, though, but definitely an improvement. Along with the extra 100 points a character gets (at the standard starting power level), Champions characters can be a lot more rounded now than they were in 4th Ed. This brings me to two points, one of which I didn't have time for yesterday and one I have thought of since. First, it entirely makes sense for characters who have no offensive capabilities to learn martial arts, or those with poor defences to wear body armour or have personal force fields. Think of the Legion Flight Rings, or the standard X-Men training (martial arts, plus mental powers resistance training). Just as the police or armed forces are trained to be fit and to know self defence, so would heroes. Even if you don't belong to a group, I think it makes sense for characters to learn somehting which might help them out in a fix. For example, say you built Black Canary. You could say that she's an Energy Projector, why does she need Martial Arts? The answer is that Martial Arts are more reliable than her powers, not just in terms of losing them, as she did for many years, but also because, in the comics, she's got more control over her punches (the scream is portrayed as being a little more brutal and a weapon of last resort, normally). Also, there might be an opponent who is unaffected by sonic powers, or Dinah cannot use them (because there's a hostage, for example). Therefore it makes sense for the 'real' character as much as it does in game terms. I think Dinah learned to fight before she learned of her scream, but even if it were the other way round, it would still make sense for her to learn to defend herself. However, I quite agree that the flying alien bricks don't need heat vision/Martian vision, whatever. It makes them that bit too versatile in a way that, for example, Wonder Woman's lasso does not. The second point is on 'one trick ponies'. In comics, they can just about work as characters, because the writers can create situations where the unique abilities work. In a game, that could still happen, but you are more likely to face a situation where the scenario doesn't have an opportunity for the 'pony' to shine, or even worse, there's someone else on the team who overlaps powers. As someone said above, if you've got Iron Man, you don't need the Angel. I think single power villains can still work brilliantly. Count Vertigo doesn't need any other abilities, as he chooses when to strike and you'll be left helpless. A hero (especially in a game), needs to be able to help out in a variety of situations. In many cases this can be dealt with through a versatile use of powers (wings can indeed be used in a variety of ways), but with some powers, like Cypher's or Count Vertigo's, there really isn't a lot of leeway.

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? I was thinking about this recently. In many comics, especially DC ones, a large number of characters can be taken out by one good punch. Landing that punch on them might not be easy, but get your retaliation in first and you can take them out. This is true of the Green Lanterns, the Flashes and actually most members of the current JLA line-up. This led me to thinking about how most Champions characters are built to take a few 'average' hits to take out of the fight. I decided this was because it was no fun to sit around waiting for your PC to wake up, while the Wildcat or Wonder Woman clone gets to duke it out. Related to this is the issue that, as well as having a fairly good defence, just about every Champions character (especially heroes) needs a good offensive power or five, because combat is usually a big part of the game (and it is usually a big part of the comics too). In a story, it doesn't matter if Joe Bloggs is 'just' the flier, because the writer should always give him something to do. In a game, it can be harder to stop other players stepping on another character's toes.

Re: Taunt I should say that my personal view is that it's a PRE Attack. I can see the idea that it's a form of Persuasion, but the effect seems more like a PRE Attack than a Persuasion attempt to me. The only advantage seems to be that it is 'absolute' as you say, but that seemed to be the crux of the question; how do you make someone attack you? I'd considered a lot of the points you made about using Mind Control (especially the need for the attacker to have a high ECV and the fact that Mental Defense would apply). I think that's one of the problems of using Mental Powers to build other things in HERO and one I've encountered when creating characters who could 'read' body language (Telepathy). It's much better if the GM can wave his hand and allow a PRE Attack to instill anger, instead of having to build a specific power. In fact, how about that old-fashioned stand-by, roleplaying? You could make jokes about Master Zen's mother all day long and he wouldn't bat an eyelid, but one out of place comment about the Rampaging Roustabout's auntie's cousin's cat and you'll have a fight on your hands.

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? Burning Bush (fire powers) Bushmistress (I'm thinking razor fighting, but maybe she can use hot wax ) Rose Bush (retconned version of the classic Champions character) Bushmills (whiskey sponsored super, rather appropriate, really) Maybe they'd be like the Crimson Fox twins and only one would adventure at a time, so she'd need a partner. As such, I present to you: Bull and Bush (male sidekick, perhaps the Taurus sample character). Anyway, I've found it hilarious reading this thread and findng out about Angel's healing factor and Juggernaut and She-Hulk getting it on. Remind me why I virtually never buy Marvel titles any more. Back on topic, I think Angel's powers are classic wish fulfillment. On another forum I visit (nothing to do with comics or RPGs), there was a thread about what superpower people would choose and many wanted to be able to fly. I'd also subscribe to the theory that Stan Lee wanted one of the mutants to be privileged and beautiful, yet in spite of a wonderful pair of angel's wings, he'd be villified and treated as a freak. Angel is stronger than one would imagine from his build, but I really couldn't say that his STR was as high as 35. However, I can see the argument for that, but I feel that it's not supported by the source material. I'd go for 25 STR, maybe 30 at a pinch. I've always viewed him as having a high CON, in view of the number of injuries he's overcome.

Re: Taunt Note that if it's a really effective ('good' doesn't seem the right word) taunt, the number of points you'd need to provoke the opponent into attacking would reduce. Also, by making it a Mind Control, a stronger-willed person is more likely to resist, which sounds reasonable.

Re: Ultimate Mystic Review And this is the bit I can't take. It's not enough to say that you won't buy it, but you are effectively saying that people should avoid certain topics, because they offend you. These aren't even inherently blasphemous things, judging fromthe descriptions, simply an alternate world theory of religion. In my opinion: Not buying it = fine and your decision made on your personal faith. Making out that DoJ should have steered clear of a topic (which they knew would be tricky to handle) because it might not suit everyone = not so fine. You want to know what they have lost by including a treatment of that God? They've lost readers who cannot accept that a game treatment of a subject doesn't mean that one must give up one's real world beliefs. What have they gained? They've gained my respect for dealing with a thorny subject and not taking the ridiculous step of avoiding the whole issue and pretending it doesn't exist.

Re: multiform - is this for real? I can agree with that, but since when has 'natural and intuitive' ruled how something's done in HERO? That change, coupled with Alibear's ruling really would get rid of some fairly standard concepts, but maybe he allows characters to be constructed following the 4th Edn rules. I can see an argument for saying that the most powerful form shouldn't exceed (or at least not exceed by much) the campaign levels, but that doesn't seem to be what he's saying.

Re: multiform - is this for real? I haven't done a Multiform character for ages, but isn't the solution that the WereChihuahua is the base character and, in his 350 points, he pays 20 to have his alternate form? Admittedly, the WereChihuahua loses 20 points from the concept that way, but it's not an enormous problem when you consider that he is going to have the benefit of an alter ego built on 100 points (which is likely to have some useful skills or powers at that level).

Re: Defensive VPP -- would you allow this? On the actual question, I'm OK with the basic idea (there's precednt for it in comics), but the way it's built seemed a bit off-line to me. I'd be happy with the concept of someone who is immune to one type of attack at a time. You'd defeat him by a MPA, or having an ally attack on the same phase, or maybe using an NND attack which doesn't need exactly a defence (for example, a gas attack requiring Life Support). Of course, some people might consider LS to be a defensive power. I think the power needs some reworking as it has Limitations which aren't limiting. I can't help but feel it needs something else added to make it work right too. Maybe some kind of Detect so that you know what you've been hit with? Otherwise you are getting a reactive defence that is precognitive. Perhaps it should be built as Precognition, but this is all straight off the top of my head and I admit I am a little rusty on the HERO system. I'm equally happy with the idea of someone forming defences to whatever he was last attacked with. This one is easier to explain in game terms and as a rationale. It's also slightly easier to deal with, so there is a game balance issue. On the interpretation one, I think the difficulty is partly people mixing up different types of Advantages and Limitations. Hawksmoor referred to Magic and Gadget pools having advantages over the Mimic pool. However, I can't quite see this. Magic pools are quite advantageous, in terms of the freedom to choose powers, but then they don't get any Limitations on the Control Cost. No restrictions like 'Must have at least an IIF' or 'Must touch person with power to be mimicked'. As such, the total pool costs more. In a small pool (say 30 points) the difference isn't that much, but when you start looking at bigger pools, the differences increase. As to Gadget Pools, I think Hawksmoor's argument rather ignores Limitations such as 'Can only be changed between adventures' or 'Can only be changed in a laboratory'. Both of those affect how and when the pool can be reconfigured. Neither Limitation would, in my opinion, affect the cost of Genesis Genius's laser pistol. The Limitation affects when powers can change. Now, Hawksmoor seems to be saying that the advantages of limiting the Control Cost alone are not sufficient. On a 60 point pool (assuming nothing else affects the Control Cost), a -1 Limitation only reduces the overall cost of the pool by 15 points. So, for the 15 points, Mimic loses a whole scad of stuff which MagicMan can do and the loss of utility to Mimic is worth much more than 15 points. I can certainly see his viewpoint and this stems (in my opinion) from the fact that Advantages and Limitation on VPPs only affect the Control Cost. Even at 60 Active Points, the base Control Cost is only 30 points. However, to say that it's an interpretation of the rules, rather than a house rule is where I have a problem. If the guy who wrote the rules says it works in 'X fashion', then that's how it works, unless you change it. Agent X and Zornwill, I believe that's why so many people have a problem with Hawksmoor. His interpretation seems to go against the rules as written, the FAQ written by Steve (the guy who wrote the 5th Edition) and against the meta-rule about Limitations which don't limit not being worth anything. It might well end up in an imbalance against mimic characters, that's true. I can actually see the argument for saying that the Limitation should be worth more in real terms. However, any game system is going to have loopholes or things which don't quite play right and I suspect he's highlighted a possible one. There are arguable worse things in HERO, though. I can see that a character could be described as only being able to use a fire blast if he's mimicked it, but it doesn't sit with the rules as written, as I understand them. That does not mean that Hawksmoor's point about balance is not correct, though. All just my opinion and, as I said, I am a bit HERO rusty.

May I suggest taking a look at H. P. Lovecraft's "The Horror at Red Hook"? Perhaps there had been a prior incident of a similar nature in the 1890s and the heroes banded together to stop it that time. Even if you don't like that, "Red Hook" is a great place name. I have to say that a mixed-bag of ethnic types seems a little too convenient. It reminds me of that international team DC did (the name eludes me for now), with a bunch of second-stringers, who were only chosen to shoehorn in people from as many countries as possible, instead of because they were interesting in their own right.

No, they won't remove the suit, but might try to disect him. Also, instead of restraining him as a normal, they will use some horrible device. Hey, is that a Limitation or a Disadvantage? I'm on the side that says IIF/OIHID and the "organic" nature is just a special effect. I'm reminded of the way that an RKA could be a shuriken or a laser beam. It costs 5 points to buy Missile Deflection against the former, 20 points for the latter. I don't recall Laser Lass paying more for her power than Dark Ninja did for his (assuming she uses an OAF too, of course, before I get any clever comments). She has a small advantage over him, but it's so tiny and possibly balanced out by other things, that it doesn't seem worth statting out to me. Just my opinion.

Good job I never said which Monday. It's funny because I thought about this thread only a couple of days ago. I've actually done precious little RPG stuff over the last few months. I'd hoped to do Purple Heart, Red Elk and the other two Furies over Christmas. Except I didn't. I will eventually. Just don't hold your breath.

Major Tom's understanding matches mine (including the stuff about ageing). From what I recall, the Vita-Rays not only stabilise the Serum within the body, but without them the recipient of the SSS can go insane (as mentioned by Champsguy).

I wouldn't want to live on that street.

Nice explanation, Lamrok. I think the question some people have been trying to answer is precisely what defines the "pulp" genre for an RPG. Others have been taking a more technical line about what was actually published in the pulps. My point is that, for gaming and indeed film genre purposes, I think that "pulps" contain certain of the elements I listed. Conan stories might have been published in pulp magazines, but they belong in the fantasy genre. Some of Lovecraft's tales were published in pulps too, but they are horror stories (with occasional sci-fi ones thrown in). If I bought "Pulp HERO", I'd like to see a history of pulp magazines, with reference made to all the different types of stories that got printed. However, in terms of gaming information, I'd be expecting advice on "two-fisted adventures", for want of a better term.

I'm impressed he made it out of the door. I suppose lemmings are tougher than portrayed in the media.

I keep thinking about getting this, but I have had problems downloading stuff (I got my free copy of DH 14 only on the second try), so I am a bit wary. Shame, because I think I'd love it. Maybe I'll bite the bullet soon and take a chance.

This sounds a little like an idea I had called (until I came up with a better name, which I never did) "Mutant: Impossible". The basic idea was to have supers who had low-level powers, but which were very suited to certain roles. Add in their training and they were very effective. Obviously, the idea was for them to carry out certain cover operations, which is a little different from straight special forces work. Sticking to your remit and largely avoiding what has already been suggested: Low level stretcher. Desolidifciation, but only to get through small gaps, plus a few inches of Stretching. He'd make an ideal infiltrator/scout, if he'd been trained in Stealth, Security Systems, that sort of thing. Shapeshifter. Especially the "super disguise" type. Give him Mimicry, training in a variety of languages, AK/CK skills and possible KSs in various religions/political ideologies and watch him pass himself off as one of the enemy. Telepath. Give him Interrogation, Conversation, a few languages (not needed for Telepathy, but for the opening chat), possibly Bribery too (to "plea bargain") and you would get any normal person "singing". I might think of more.

Say, has anybody seen lemming lately?

Guess who's getting a visit from the Harbinger tonight?