Hyper-Man

This one is:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6083133/Hero6eGMScreen.pdf

Could you post an example?

Sure.

60    Example: Multipower, 60-point reserve

6f    1)  Example Blast: Blast 12d6 (60 Active Points) - END=6

10    Blast Enhancement: Armor Piercing (Naked Advantage; +1/4) for up to 60 Active Points of Example Blast (15 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2) - END=2

3    Blast Enhancement v2: Armor Piercing (Naked Advantage; +1/4) for up to 60 Active Points of Example Blast (15 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x10 END; -4) - END=10

11    Increased & Enhanced Example Blast: (Total: 34 Active Cost, 11 Real Cost) Blast 3d6 (15 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x5 END; -2) (Real Cost: 5) plus Armor Piercing (Naked Advantage; +1/4) for up to 75 Active Points of Example Blast (19 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x5 END; -2) (Real Cost: 6) - END=15

Just change around the 'bonus damage', Advantages and Limitations and you have the basic way to build the Human Torch's Nova Blast for example.

edit - adding the example hdc file

Multipower example.hdc

HM

What you're looking for is a bang stick.

I'd rather have a boomstick.

FWIW I already included PSL's vs. Recoil.  I was only using stances as a description for the Naked Reduced END Power.

6 +2 with Handguns
10 +2 with Small Arms
20 +2 with All Attacks
24 +2 Overall Skill Levels
12 +4 to offset Hit Location modifiers with all attacks
[Notes: This could be replaced with the Deadly Blow or Weapon Master Talents if Hit Locations are not being used.]
10 +4 to offset Hit Location modifiers with all attacks (12 Active Points); Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4)
[Notes: From 6e2 p200 - Characters normally use One-And-A-Half-Handed Weapons (“1½H”) with two hands; their listed STR Minima assumes two-handed use. However, if necessary characters can use them one-handed without too much difficulty. If a character uses the weapon with only one hand, increase its STR Minimum by +2 (or impose a -1 OCV penalty for weapons for which the STR Minimum Cannot Add Damage). 1 Handed use with guns means only +3 vs. Hit Locations. 1 Handed use with Martial Arts means 15 base STR or +3 vs. Hit Locations.]
4 +2 to offset Recoil modifiers vs. a single target when using autofire or multiple attacks with a gun
[Notes: HSEG6e p103 & DC5e p194 - The Recoil Rules impose an additional cumulative -1 OCV penalty for each shot after the first fired with Autofire or a Multiple Attack when made against a single target.]
6 +3 to offset the DCV penalty for being prone

 

Any opinion on the END costs according to RAW?

HM

Champions and Champions Universe are probably your best bet.  There just aren't that many published NPC hero write ups.

HM

That would still be a form of Naked Advantage.

The more typical option would be to have the base Power in the Framework and then a 'boost' to that Power (possibly with additional Advantages including a Naked one for the base) built individually outside of the Framework.

HM

Re: Strength Minimum and HTH weapons.

I think the movie Rob Roy makes a great case for their use costing END in the final fight between Rob using a heavy "Claymore" and Archibald using a much lighter Rapier.

https://gradingfightscenes.com/category/rob-roy/

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?12078-Rob-Roy-fighting-scene-What-swords

HM

I don't think that Firearms should cost END to use (whether per shot or per phase). We've never played with that in over 15 years of Hero games, I never even knew that was a thing. If that means building them with Reduced END (0 END) like melee weapons are built, then so be it. In Heroic games you don't pay the points anyways. I don't see why Firearms should cost END to use accurately when a sword or battle axe doesn't. 

 

Now if a GM was going for gritty realism I could see an argument for all weapons (Guns & Melee) costing Long Term END that could slowly add up if a character was in enough prolonged combat situations during a day. 

 

Like Old Man mentioned above, blowing through 32 rounds of ammo on fully automatic in Uzi takes not even 5 seconds (their standard rate of fire is 600 rounds per minute). I'm not in great shape, I smoke a pack of cigarettes a day and rarely exercise, if I'd guess my END would hardly be above 20, yet I didn't pass out or collapse after emptying a clip from an uzi. I was sore from the recoil the next day though. 

 

I guess if a "rules" explanation is really needed, then maybe Casual STR could be used to counter (all/some of) the END cost from the STR Min for using firearms and melee weapons? 

I agree that this is essentially the way I've always played it in the past as well. But I am a firm believer that a House Rule is only as good as one's understanding of the Base Rule(s) that it's intended to modify.  Regardless of Steve's reply above I believe the proper interpretation of the rule with respect to 'guns' would be to apply the END cost for meeting STR Minimums exactly 1 time per Phase.  My John Wick build also includes a Naked 3-shot Autofire that he can apply to semi-automatic guns and it costs him 1 END to use it. It would cost END per use but that would only make a difference in cases where Multiple Attack and Autofire were combined in a single Phase.

Example:

John sees 3 armed guards ahead.  His player chooses to use Multiple Attack to "shoot" all 3 targets during this Phase.  He also chooses to use his Rapid Attack and Rapid Autofire Skills to combine his Quick Fire ability (Naked Autofire w/Semi-Auto of opportunity) with the Multiple Attack to fire 2 shots at each target guard.  His OCV modifier is -4 (for 2 targets after the 1st in the Multiple Attack) and if he makes his roll by +2 for each target they'll each get hit by 2 shots. And since the 2nd shot per target is using the Autofire rules, the Multiple Attack sequence would only be broken by a "miss" if both shots on a single target missed.

If no Naked Reduced END builds are applied, then the END cost for his actions during this Phase would be 6 END (or 5 if he used the Brace Maneuver).  3 For using 14 STR (9 Minimum for his 9mm HK P30L with +5 STR added for Autofire) plus 3 for using the Naked Advantage Autofire "Power" 3 times (1 END per use).

HM

Note that the END costs that are imposed by taking the Strength Minimum Limitation can be HIGHER than those imposed by taking the Costs Endurance Limitation.  Strength Minimums can also be worth more than the Costs Endurance Limitation (-1/2).  Example: A 9 STR Minimum applied to a "gun" where STR does not add damage is worth a total (-1) Limitation.

From 6e2 page 199:

STRENGTH MINIMUM
In Heroic campaigns, melee weapons built with HKA and HA have a Strength Minimum that defines the minimum STR required to use them properly. STR Min is an optional rule; the GM shouldn’t use it if he doesn’t want to, or can use it purely as a way of defining weapons in his campaign rather than a Limitation. It shouldn’t be used in Superheroic campaigns. The STR Minimum rules apply to both Normal Damage and Killing Damage weapons.

A weapon’s STR Minimum isn’t the minimum STR required to lift it or wield it — it’s the minimum STR needed to wield it effectively. A character with 5 STR is fully capable of picking up a broadsword, and can even swing it around in combat if he wants to. But it takes a 12 STR to wield a broadsword effectively — to use it in combat Phase after Phase; to make it go exactly where you want it to go; to control its motion, momentum, and aim with precision. Thus, it has a 12 STR Minimum.

When a character lacks the STR to use a weapon effectively, he suffers a -1 OCV and -1 DC penalty for every 5 points (or fraction thereof) his STR is below the STR Minimum. Conversely, a character can add +1 Damage Class to a melee weapon’s damage for every 5 full points by which his STR exceeds the STR Minimum. See Adding Damage, 6E2 99, for further information, including rules on adding damage to weapons bought with Advantages.

Typically when a character adds damage to a weapon with the STR Minimum rules, he can no more than double the base Damage Classes of the weapon used. However, at the GM’s option he can do more damage than that, but the weapon also takes the full amount of damage it does to the target (and thus probably breaks).

For some types of weapons, it’s not appropriate for a character to add damage from STR, even though he needs a certain level of STR to wield the weapon effectively. In that case, the STR Minimum Limitation is worth an additional ½ Limitation value. Characters still suffer OCV and DC penalties if they don’t meet the STR Minimum for such a weapon, but can never add DCs no matter how much STR they use.

Characters can also apply STR Minimum to Ranged weapons, such as bows, crossbows, and guns. However, those weapons are built with Blast or RKA, neither of which add damage from STR. Therefore characters can never add damage to these weapons by using extra STR; they can only suffer the OCV and DC penalties for having too little STR. Ranged weapons do not get an additional Limitation for this.

Wielding weapons costs Endurance, but the END cost depends on the STR used, not the Active Points the weapon is built on: 1 END for every 10 STR used (or 5 STR in some Heroic campaigns). Weapons themselves are built with Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½).

Example: Brak’s younger brother Drak the Barbarian has 18 STR. When wielding a dagger (1d6-1, or 2 DCs; STR Min 8), he takes no penalty for using the weapon. In fact, he can add up to 2 DCs to the dagger’s damage, raising its DC from 1d6-1 to 1d6+1. Unless the GM permits otherwise, he can’t raise the damage any higher (by doing a Haymaker, for example) because he’s already at twice the weapon’s Damage Classes.

 

Later Drak tries to use a huge trollish war axe (STR Min 28). Because his STR is 10 below the STR Minimum, he’s at -2 OCV and -2 DCs every time he attacks with the axe.

 

Modifiers To STR Minima
Using Two Hands: If a character uses two hands to wield a weapon that normally only requires one, reduce the weapon’s STR Minimum by 3.

Using One Hand: If a character uses a one-and-a-half-handed weapon with one hand, add +2 to the STR Minimum (or, in the case of guns and other weapons for which the STR Minimum doesn’t affect damage, impose a -1 OCV penalty for one-handed use). If he uses a two-handed weapon with one hand, add +3 to the STR Minimum (or impose a -2 OCV penalty for guns and the like).

Autofire: Autofire weapons have a +5 STR Minimum unless fired in single-shot mode (or thrown one at a time).

Bipod: A weapon fired from a bipod has a -10 STR Minimum. (A weapon which can only be fired from a weapons mount shouldn’t be built with STR Minimum at all.)

Braced: When a character Braces (see 6E2 60) while using a Ranged weapon, subtract 5 from the weapon’s STR Min.

Calculating STR Minima
STR Minimum is a Limitation. The STR required to wield the weapon effectively determines the Limitation’s value (see accompanying table).

To determine the proper STR Minimum for a weapon, consider its nature, size, mass, and unwieldiness (if any). A light, slim rapier has a lower STR Minimum than a big, heavy, awkward club. The weapons lists in this chapter provide guidelines for appropriate STR Minima for various types of weapons.

 

From 6e1 page 367:

A power that has Charges does not cost END to use. If the character wants a power with Charges to use END, he can apply the Costs Endurance (-½) Limitation. A character does not get any additional or separate Limitation value if he takes Charges for a power that ordinarily costs no END (such as Life Support).

From 6e1 page 374:

Costs Endurance
Value:
-¼ if power only costs END to activate;
-½ if power costs END every Phase the character uses it;
-½ if it costs END to maintain an Instant Power after use

HM

I would define a shooting stance as an OCV bonus or, better yet, a means of negating recoil penalties.

 

To go back to the END question--I kind of have a problem with modern firearms costing END at all. Especially on autofire. I'm not at risk of passing out if I run a few mags through an assault rifle at full auto. The STR Min in these cases would have more to do with accuracy and with reset time after each shot. I'd seriously buy these down to 0 END if they aren't already.

I just wonder if the STR Minimum Limitation needs a 'half value' modifier for 0 END or a more definitive ruling is needed to differentiate non-muscle powered ranged weapons with a STR Min clearly defining the END cost to once per Phase regardless of the # of shots fired.

HM

I am looking for comments from our resident real world gun experts on this recent Hero System Forum thread:

 

Heroic END, Weapon STR Minimums, Multiple Attack, Autofire and GUNS

 

 

HM

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

I'm not sure that I agree that it needs to be weaker. Please take a closer look at my version. It deals with Endurance costs I don't think yours currently does. And the slots in yours that don't currently exist in mine (ex: Aid) could be added quite easily.

*It's also worth noting that my version is just an update to the example provided in Champions Complete.


HM

Hi guys, as usual thanks everybody for your so complete answers. Now I can understand the difference between the two editions... But let me say that they are not so little... To build the same vvp in the 6th edition implies much more CP or quite weaker powers... My friend won't be really happy...

I would allow the lower range but more-direct build as long as it included Safe Blind Teleport as well.

HM

It depends in my opinion.

If a player had a character origin that tied a particular magic item to their character then it is reasonable for them to spend points on it.  However, what this means in a gameworld dominated by mundane free equipment is that they should always have an opportunity to find this magic item if it is ever lost or taken away. 

A good example might be Corwin from Zelazny's Chronicles of Amber.  Corwin has a magical sword named Grayswandir.  Due to the nature of the sword and Corwin's abilities he could always find the sword if lost.  His is an extreme case that is in some ways like Marvel's Thor and his Hammer.  The characters and items are intertwined. 

I think that if you as a GM allow a player to spend points up front on specific item(s) then you are acknowledging the importance of those items over ones 'acquired' during the course of gameplay.  If I was converting a D&D character into HERO terms I think the biggest determining factor over whether items are added to the Powers or Equipment section would be whether the power level of the campaign was 'super' or 'heroic' which would really be determined by how powerful the magic spells are in the game world. Considering the rule about characters who spend points on 'weapons' not having to pay for the familiarity to use the weapon, my gut feeling is consider ALL weapons, magic or otherwise, to be equipment that can be lost or stolen.

HM

FTL is to Megascale Movement what Combat Luck is to Resistant Defense. One is basically a shorthand limited case version of the other.

Personally I like the longhand versions so I can build stuff like this from my rookie version of The Flash:

HM

Hello everybody,

 

I'm trying to support a member of my game party in building a ~ 520 point Spiderman version.

 

I have found in the web a 5th edition version of the web shooters build as VVP:

111 Webslinging Variable Power Pool, 90 base + 21 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1) (180 Active Points); Limited Class Of Powers Available (Webbing; -1), Restrainable (-1/2), Visible (Webbing; -1/4), IIF (Two independently useable web shooters; -1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4); all slots OAF (Web Line; -1)

 

 

1) Webswinging. Swinging 35", x4 Noncombat, Usable As Gliding (Car Surfing, sliding down surfaces or along lines, etc.; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (60 Active Points); OAF (Web Line; -1) Real Cost: 30

 

2) Web Line. Stretching 12", Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (90 Active Points); OAF Unbreakable (-1), Always Direct (-1/4), Range Modifier Applies (-1/4), Limited Power (No damage from striking or squeezing; -1/4) Real Cost: 33

 

3) Web Bonds. Entangle 5d6, 5 DEF, Takes No Damage From Attacks Limited Group (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (87 Active Points); Set Effect (Hands Only/Feet Only) (-1), OAF (Web Line; -1), Limited Range (80"; -1/4), Limited Power (Only lasts 1 hour; -1/4) Real Cost: 25

4) Web Snare. Entangle 3d6, 5 DEF, Takes No Damage From Attacks (+1/4), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Trigger can expire (it has a time limit), Character does not control activation of personal Trigger; Web entraps any who happen into it unknowingly; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (90 Active Points); Does Not Prevent The Use Of Accessible Foci (-1), OAF (Web Line; -1), Limited Range (80"; -1/4), Limited Power (Only lasts 1 hour; -1/4) Real Cost: 26

5) Web Blind Fold. Sight Group Flash 7d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Continuous (+1) (87 Active Points); OAF (Web Line; -1), Beam (-1/4), Does Not Work Against Desolidified Characters (-1/4), Limited Power (Only lasts one hour; -1/4), Limited Power (Can be removed from non-stick surface; -1/4) Real Cost: 29

6) Web Parachute. Gliding 12" (12 Active Points); OAF (Web Line; -1), Gestures, Requires Gestures throughout (-1/2) Real Cost: 5

7) Add More Webbing. Aid 2 1/2d6, Can Add Maximum Of 45 Points, any Web power one at a time (+1/4), Continuous (+1) (90 Active Points); OAF (Web Line; -1), Gestures, Requires Gestures throughout (-1/2), Limited Power (Only Lasts One Hour; -1/4) Real Cost: 33

 

Well, the problem here is that when I try to put this VVP in the Hero Design I can't match completely all the limitations... especially the ones listed for the VVP. How is it possible to have a "double" focus limitation IIF and OAF... ? And again, in the current version of the Hero Design I can't find the limitation "limited class of powers"... and what about the limitation "visible"...

 

Could you suggest the corrections to adapt this VVP for the 6th edition??

 

Thanks in advance.

This is how I've built Spidey and his amazing Web Shooters for 6e:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/files/file/257-peter-parker-6e-400/

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/90950-beginning-version-of-spider-man-for-6e-on-400-points/?p=2419664

 

84    Web Shooters (worn on each wrist): Variable Power Pool, 42 base + 60 control cost, No Skill Roll Required (+1), Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1); all slots Persistent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (154 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (-1); all slots Unified Power (Web Shooters; -1/4), 2 clips of 1 Continuing Fuel Charge lasting 20 Minutes (Increased Reloading Time: 2 Full Phases; Web Fluid; -1/4), Gestures (Must be able to squeeze palm trigger to use.; -1/4), IIF (2 Webshooters, 1 on each Arm) (Quantity = 2 (from 6e2 page 181) +5 Real points; -1/4)

[Notes: (x2 number of items)

Each VPP (2 Web Shooters are worn using the Equipment Doubling Rules) Slot has some form of the Range Based on Strength modifier.  This means they effectively still cost the wearer END to use though the exact amount is up to the Player and GM to agree on.  The slots only appear to have 105 Active Points due to the application of Reduced End and Persistent (They are all 60 Active Points if removed from the VPP) These VPP Only Modifiers are only being used to allow the application of the Continuous Charge Modifier to represent the limited amount of Web Fluid carried.  I think this is a much easier method to track than traditional Charges or a separate End Reserve.]

0    1) Web Wall: Barrier 8 PD/7 ED, 9 BODY (up to 8m long, 8m tall, and 1/2m thick), Opaque Sight Group (105 Active Points); Cannot Englobe (-1/4), Range Based On Strength (-1/4) Real Cost: 42 - END=0

0    2) Web Cocooning: Entangle 4d6, 6 PD/5 ED (Stops A Given Sense Normal Sight), Entangle And Character Both Take Damage (+1/4) (105 Active Points); Range Based On Strength (-1/4), Can Be Deflected (-1/4) Real Cost: 42 - END=0

0    3) Thrown Web Balls: Blast 8d6, Reduced Negation (1), Autofire (3 shots; +1/4), Constant (+1/2) (105 Active Points); Range Based On Strength (-1/4), Beam (-1/4) Real Cost: 42

[Notes: Constant was only included to meet requirement to fit into the VPP due to using a Continuing Charge instead of traditional Charges or End Reserve to describe the limited amount of Web fluid carried.  I would otherwise treat the Constant Advantage as Penetrating in this case (BODY rolled is the minimum STUN damage).] - END=0

0    4) Web Rope v1: Telekinesis (40 STR) (105 Active Points); OAF (Web Line; -1), Affects Whole Object (-1/4), Range Based On Strength (-1/4) Real Cost: 32 - END=0

0    5) Web Rope v2: Stretching 60m (105 Active Points); OAF (Web Line; -1), Cannot Do Damage (-1/2), Always Direct (-1/4) Real Cost: 30 - END=0

0    6) Web Rope v3: Swinging 60m, Combat Acceleration/Deceleration (+1/4), No Gravity Penalty (+1/2), Noncombat Acceleration/Deceleration (+1) (105 Active Points); OAF (Web Line; -1) Real Cost: 38 - END=0

0    7) Web Rope & Web Ballooning: Flight 30m, Range Based On STR (+1/4), Usable As Attack (+1 1/2), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used, Grantor controls the power totally (105 Active Points); Limited Power Only for Swinging or Gliding (-1) Real Cost: 35

[Notes: Not only does this slot represent Swinging and Gliding.  It also covers Stretching by way of Usable As Attack. This was the only way Ranged Based on Strength (as an Advantage in this instance) could be applied to this slot.] - END=0

 

HM

People who are better with Hero Designer can correct me if I'm wrong...

 

In Hero Designer, you probably want to add IIF as a VPP Only Modifier, and OAF as a Common Modifier.

 

To do Limited Powers Available, you'd select "Add VPP Only Modifier" and select "Limited Power" from the Limitations list.

 

"Visible" is known as "Perceivable" in 6E.

Here is what my version's VPP looks like within the software itself:

HM

This is how I've built Spidey and his amazing Web Shooters for 6e:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/files/file/257-peter-parker-6e-400/

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/90950-beginning-version-of-spider-man-for-6e-on-400-points/?p=2419664

HM

I am looking for comments from our resident real world gun experts on this recent Hero System Forum thread:

Heroic END, Weapon STR Minimums, Multiple Attack, Autofire and GUNS

HM

For those who are interested, here are the questions and answers from my recent Rules Forum post:

END cost for Multiple Attack with a gun with a STR Minimum

Q:

Hi Steve,

 

While researching some heroic level gun use abilities in this thread I ran into a question I am not sure about.

 

Does the END cost of meeting the STR Minimum for *non-musclepowered ranged weapons (guns) mean the character only pays END once per Phase when using them regardless of whether a Multiple Attack or Autofire is also being used with the gun?

 

*Wording used in 6e2 page 207

 

Same question worded a different way:

Does having a STR Minimum have a direct bearing on determining if using a weapon is considered a **STR-based attack?

 

**Wording used in 6e1 page 41

 

If the answer to both is NO, then is it safe to assume that firing a bow (a musclepowered ranged weapon) Does cost END per shot but does not get any additional Limitation for this?

 

Thanks!

 

HM

A:

HM

I personally believe Steve's answer is a little overboard considering the text I quoted as well as the description of the weapon categories themselves. He also gave an answer regarding the combination of Passing Strike (a kind of martial Move By) and an Autofire HA stating that Rapid Autofire would be required and I cannot find anything to support that in the text. I'm going to chalk up both answers to Steve not having full access to his books as he notes in both threads.

HM

IF Charges were not involved, THEN your point might be be valid.

HM

Please read the builds in the original post one more time.

The first is 0 END on STR. Only usable for meeting STR Minimums for Guns.

The second is a Naked Autofire usable with semi-automatic small arms. There is no END cost for using guns except for meeting the STR minimum which was dealt with in the first build.  There is a NEW END cost due to it being a Naked Advantage but that was dealt with by paying for the full Autofire version of Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1).

Between the two builds the character should not have to spend any END on the use of Guns.

HM

Well, Steve's answer in the Rules Forum just confirmed that the END for STR Minimums is still paid for each shot fired. GM's are of course welcome to change this. But if it is enforced then my proposed builds above would likely be needed.

HM

6e now calls it Only in Alternate ID.

The issue with that Limitation, no matter the edition, is that it requires defining a way to stop the transformation (examples: cover Billy Batson's mouth before he can say SHAZAM!, prevent Tony Stark from putting on his Iron-Man armor, etc...).  AFAIK, there isn't a way to stop Colossus from changing besides knocking him out or mind control.  Due to this most builds I've seen posted here by various folks have replaced OIHID with Linked and made some form or Resistant Defense (the power that replaced Armor from previous editions) the main ability that everything else was Linked to.

See this old thread for an example of what I mean:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/90494-uthanar-character-builds/?p=2407518

HM