Hyper-Man

...

 

Note that INT is the only stat which does not already have a use for each point purchased.

I seem to remember reading somewhere a rule for using INT as a tie-breaker for Initiative for characters with equal DEX.

HM

It even works for Superman himself, since you often see him getting affected/flung back a bit by an unexpectedly powerful punch or energy blast, then steeling himself and shrugging the next one off. Presumably however his powers work, they can be optimized defensively with an act of will.

This is how I've modeled his powers.

or knockback resistances is in a MP

Because KB Resistance is considered a Special Power it is not legal per RAW (rules as written) to be included in a Framework.

Or just Bracing with STR and/or flight.

Other options include using Density Increase (that isn't necessarily based on a 'density special effect'), Damage Negation (since it reduces the number of damage dice it also effectively reduces Knockback) and a Self-Only Barrier (the 6e version of Force Wall that also effectively functions as KB Resistance).

HM

I am not sure that I understand your question.  If it is "Is it legal to put Defenses in a Framework?" then the answer is yes.

Whether the PD and ED are noted separately really only makes a difference in a Multipower IF the slots are Fixed or Variable.  See the following examples for an illustration of this.

60    Example 1: Multipower, 60-point reserve
6f    1)  Resistant Protection (20 PD/20 ED) (60 Active Points) - END=0
     
60    Example 2: Multipower, 60-point reserve
3f    1)  Resistant Protection (20 ED) (30 Active Points) - END=0
3f    2)  Resistant Protection (20 PD) (30 Active Points) - END=0
     
60    Example 3: Multipower, 60-point reserve
12v    1)  Resistant Protection (40 PD) (60 Active Points) - END=0
12v    2)  Resistant Protection (40 ED) (60 Active Points) - END=0
     
60    Example 4: Multipower, 60-point reserve
6f    1)  Resistant Protection (16 PD/16 ED), Allocatable (Allocatable Resistant Protection can have its points of defense re-allocated in  any way, without changing its maximum or adding new categories of defense.; +1/4) (60 Active Points) - END=0
     

HM

That's nice HM, how do you define the "Magic Resistance" in the AVAD?

I just did a smaller shift than normal for "NND" (Very Common -> Uncommon) and added the "Magic Resistance" name.

HM

Here's a version I did a while back

6 Magic Missile for 6e: RKA 1d6-1, Area Of Effect Accurate (4m Radius; +1/2), Attack Versus Alternate Defense ("Magic Resistance"; All Or Nothing; +1/2), Does BODY (+1) (30 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Limited Power Only Affects Living Targets (-1), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4), Limited Range (-1/4) - END=[1]

HM

Build a magic missile in Hero.

Easy.

Create a campaign specific 'always hits' advantage and sprinkle in a few others to top it off.

HM

This points out another issue. To build anything Hero can build in the game is to work on the assumption that the group uses every book available. Which is not most groups playing.

 

It's not a huge issue to me, mind you. I prefer less ad hoc systems, but that's me.

The key difference is that all the extra HERO books do not actually introduce much if any actual NEW rules. They typically only provide example builds that anyone could do on their own with the core rules.

HM

I believe there is another option not mentioned.  Since one of the core ideas in HERO is that you get what you pay for I posit that even an average Jedi would have so many points tied up in just basic Force and Lightsaber abilities that non-Jedi characters built on equivalent points are going to be pretty badass in their own different ways (ex: Han).

Here is a link to a 5e Jedi Template I made a long time ago to illustrate what I mean.

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/86704-sith-lord-vpp/?p=2298653

HM

There are a few questions we would need answers to before we can give much useful advice.

What version of HERO are you using?

Is this for a Superheroic or Heroic setting?

IF the latter you can go as low as 50 points to begin with which is roughly equivalent to 0-1st level D&D characters.

HM

I have to say that I was impressed that Marvel was able to pull off the amazing aspects of both Ant-Man's microverse and Dormammu's dark dimension.  I wonder if they will ever revisit the former to perhaps bring back the original Wasp.

Microverse was a poor choice of words on my part as it was actually described as "the quantum realm where time has no meaning" by Dr. Pym in the movie.  Hence the similarity to what Dr. Strange did with Dormammu and the possibility of rescuing the original Wasp.

I have to say that I was impressed that Marvel was able to pull off the amazing aspects of both Ant-Man's microverse and Dormammu's dark dimension.  I wonder if they will ever revisit the former to perhaps bring back the original Wasp.

At what point does it stop being a small arm and start being a fieldpiece?

Indirect vs. Direct fire maybe?

HM

It's a judgement call:

From 6e1 page 315:

Other Rules
Generally, a character cannot purchase a naked Power Advantage or Adder that adds to any slot in a Power Framework, but this depends on the nature of the powers and special effects involved and the GM’s judgment regarding game balance, common sense, and dramatic sense. For example, a character with the “Quick Shot” naked Advantage described above who had a Multipower of different guns could apply the naked Advantage to any of those guns. On the other hand, an energy projector with the same Multipower, but no Focus Limitations, probably shouldn’t be allowed to do that, since there are no restrictions on the use of the naked Advantage.

HM

I need to get Hero Designer, but then there's one more thing for me to learn! I'm really a luddite at heart.

 

I'm a bit intimidated by your Superman example! Did you basically just impose your own limitations on the Multipower in order to allow for flexibility in how many slots you can use at once?

Yes.

The core of that Framework is his ability to choose almost* any 2 slots to be used in combination (Flight + something else, Density/STR + something else, extra defenses + something else, 3 Overall Levels + something else, etc...). 

*Density + HA cannot be combined since they both essentially add to his base STR which is not allowed by RAW(rules as written).

If you want to see the evolution of that character converted to 6e and updated from a Multipwer to a VPP, then follow this LINK and click the Download button where you will find html export versions of the character that you can save to your computer to view.  The number of defined slots does get increased but they are basically all just variations of the same core abilities created in the earlier Multipower example.

HM

What you are describing is one of those all-encompassing meta-special effects that usually demands the use of the Variable Power Pool (VPP) Framework.  The big question to ask first though is whether this is intended to be a PC or NPC?  A PC would be better to start out with a smaller/tighter sfx that can be expanded later with XP.

HM

It's interesting you bring that up. There may be something kicking around in my memory from the old Multipower rules and the relation of AP and RP. I was a wiz at this stuff in the '80s, but I'm plenty rusty now and am trying to relearn things in 6e. Everything seems familiar and different at the same time. Regardless, that distinction actually would make some sense as a house rule in order to limit the number of slots.

 

 

 

 

I may be misunderstanding you, but are you suggesting another house rule, or perhaps a -0 Limitation, that puts a cap on the AP for any slot in the Multipower?

I used to know how to figure this stuff in my head as well but I've gotten used to letting Hero Designer do all the heavy lifting.  I would consider the 5e Superman I linked to an example of campaign effectiveness limits (as is, he can get up to a 75 STR via the More powerfull than a locamotive slot) rather than a defined Limitation even if only (-0) since future XP could certainly be put towards slots that used the full Reserve if the GM allowed.

As others have already pointed out, 'Mana' as a separate END for 'magic' is one way to limit spell casters from becoming Iron-Man clones.  Another option is to require spell component requirements.  It basically works out as a type of Charges that the GM has more control over and can be used as story hooks as well (before they can cast this key spell they'll need this key item...). 

HM

In 6e the maximum Active Points for any individual slot and the maximum Real Points total active do not have to be equal as they did in previous editions.  It is very easy to set a VPP up in 6e where only 1* slot with 60 Active can be used at any one time. It's also quite easy to to create a VPP where the opposite is true - no single slot can have more than 30 Active but have several slots available at one time. 

The keys to making a balanced and easy to use VPP are having a clear concept of what you want to simulate up front and customizing the framework to fit that concept.  In the case of my earlier Utility Belt example I decided early on that it made sense that Batman could use 2 different slot/items simultaneously (ex: Batarangs and Batlines) but it's simple to change it to just 1 slot/item at a time and would save 15 points.  Having pre-built slots as is another.

For apple to apples comparison sake, it is also possible to create a Multipower where the Reserve is larger than the maximum Active Points of any single slot.  There is no Limitation on the Reserve for this, it's just a way of constructing the entire framework (5e example).

HM

A VPP is supposed to have a unified theme, but a Multipower doesn't have that restriction.  It is literally just a list of things you want cheap.  It can be "these are things I have in my backpack" or "these are powers where I don't have enough juice to run them all at once".

The limited sfx is a suggestion only, not a hard coded requirement.

from the first 2 paragraphs in 6e1 page 409

A character with a Variable Power Pool (“VPP”) establishes a pool of Character Points that he can use to create any power, or any power within a defined group of powers (typically, a set of powers limited to a particular special effect). Think of a VPP as a Multipower that has all of the powers of a certain type or special effect. The character distributes the points in the Pool among whatever powers he wants to have at a given time.

 

Typically, the powers created with a Variable Power Pool are linked by common special effects, such as “gadgets,” “magic,” “fire/heat,” or “mentalism.” This allows a character to create a wide variety of powers and effects without having to try to think of every possible application of his powers in advance and buy them separately.

By default, a VPP can literally be used for any power which is why it's the perfect construct for characters like Silver Surfer or Green Lantern. Anything less is where Limitations come into play.

HM

I think there were 3e-4e era versions of a similar ability called Piercing.

It's one of those tweener abilities that falls just short of getting it's own power/talent write up since it technically is just damage limited to the defenses of a target.  As such it seems more consistent to create it as a variant of Deadly Blow and Weapon Master that just gets applied to a specific weapon instead of a character.  Using the 8 point CSL's as a base also removes the need for Reduced END on the build.

HM

Here are the relevant excerpts from my rookie version of Mr. Fantastic.

Dr. Reed Richards
Mr. Fantastic

VAL    CHA    Cost    Roll    Notes
60    INT    50    21-    PER Roll 21-
20    EGO    10    13-
10    PRE    0    11-    PRE Attack: 2d6

Cost    Powers
20 The Ultimate Gadgeteer: Variable Power Pool (Gadget Pool), 14 base + 80 control cost,  (54 Active Points); Limited Power Technologoy Based Abilities Only (-1/4); all slots OAF Arrangement Fragile (Focus of Opportunity.  Uses parts he has on hand to work with.; -1 1/2), Requires A Roll (Skill roll; Jammed, Must be made each Phase/use, Can choose which of two rolls to make from use to use; -1 1/4), Extra Time (5 Minutes, Only to Activate, -1), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (0 DCV; -1), Unified Power (-1/4)

[Notes: This is just an example slot.  Reed can come up with almost any needed gadget given the time and something high tech to work with.]
0 1) Transdimensional Gun!: Blast 10d6, Transdimensional (Single Dimension; +1/2) (75 Active Points); 2 clips of 12 Charges (-0) Real Cost: 12 - END=[12]

Cost    Skills
3    Analyze:  Combat 21-
3    Computer Programming 21-
3    Concealment 21-
3    Deduction 21-
3    Electronics 21-
3    Inventor 21-
3    Mechanics 21-
3    Navigation 21-
3    Security Systems 21-
3    Systems Operation 21-

Skills Total: 30

Cost    Perks
10    Money:  Wealthy
1    Positive Reputation:  It's Mr. Fantastic! (A large group) 8-, +1/+1d6

Perks Total: 11

Cost    Talents
3    Lightning Calculator
20    Universal Scholar 21- [Notes: APG1 page 49.]
20    Universal Scientist 21- [Notes: APG1 page 50.]

Talents Total: 43

HM

What you are describing sounds like a custom Lockout Limitation that only applies to the Slots but not the Multipower Reserve. The Reserve should not get a discount when in your example 3 slots can work completely normally.

HM

I strongly recommend purchasing a copy of Hero Designer which will make creating both Multipower and VPP examples for comparison much easier (example: you can copy/paste slots from one to the other). HD supports both 5e and 6e rules.

HM

I recommend starting with a Multipower and later upgrading it to a VPP once there are more slots to choose from ahead of time than can be 'memorized' for a particular adventure/encounter.

From http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/92717-variable-power-pools/?p=2480388

Here is an example of a non-magical special effect VPP that is otherwise functionally equivalent to Vancian Magic from D&D.

 

From this rookie version of a famous comic book character.

46    The Utility Belt: Variable Power Pool (Gadget Pool), 30 base + 30 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Half-Phase Action (2 or more slots with a combined Real Cost of 30 Real Points can be active at any one time; +1/2), No Skill Roll Required (+1) (67 Active Points); Limited Class of Powers (Gadgets) Operates like a Multipower with a Dozen or so different slots ALL with the Extra Time (Half Phase) to Activate Limitation (The specific set of slots carried at any one time can be swapped out at the Batcave; -1/2); all slots Restrainable (Must be able to reach individual compartments; -1/2), IIF (The Belt is IIF (worn) Individual active slots are IIF at a minimum but can be OAF, OIF or IAF (in hand); -1/4)

[Notes: This is just a small sampling of what is typically carried.  For inspiration to create more slots see the example Utility Belt Multipower in the Hero System Equipment Guide (6e) on pages 186-187.]
0    1) Batarangs: Blast 6d6 (30 Active Points); OAF (-1), Range Based On Strength (-1/4), Beam (-1/4), 2 clips of 6 Recoverable Charges (-0) Real Cost: 10

[Notes: Up to 8d6 with Batarang Fu Basic Shot.] - END=[6 rc]
0    2) Taser Knuckles: Hand-To-Hand Attack (vs. Energy Defense) +6d6 (30 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/4), 4 clips of 8 Charges (-0) Real Cost: 13

[Notes: Up to 12d6 with Bat Fu Martial Strike.] - END=[8]
0    3) Flash Pellets: Sight Group Flash 4d6, Area Of Effect (32m Radius Explosion; +1/2) (30 Active Points); IAF (-1/2), Range Based On Strength (-1/4), 16 Charges (-0) Real Cost: 13 - END=[16]
0    4) Batlines: Swinging 30m, x4 Noncombat (30 Active Points); OAF (-1), 4 clips of 12 Recoverable Charges (+1/2) Real Cost: 12 - END=[12 rc]
0    5) Bat Bolas: Entangle 2d6, 4 PD/4 ED (30 Active Points); OAF (-1), 2 clips of 6 Recoverable Charges (-0) Real Cost: 12 - END=[6 rc]

HM

Yeah, my old 5e Jedi TK + MA builds would usually cap the number of Martial DC's to no more than the STR value of the TK (20 STR means no more than +4 DC's on top of maneuvers).

HM

I would require the Fine Manipulation.  My biggest concern is maneuvers that have a DCV modifier built in. I would try to avoid those where possible (like using Fast Strike instead of Martial Strike) and use the ranged martial maneuvers as well.  Combining base STR with TK STR is arguably similar to 2 characters  combining their STR to lift something.  This is where the type of setting would make a difference for me.  If for supers I would put the TK in a Framework that included an HA with a TK special effect. If non-supers I would go by the combined lifting STR rules.

HM