Hyper-Man

Welcome to the Forum queson!

No.

See the rules for Adding Damage to Attacks with Advantages on page 100 of 6e2 (they are different from those in 5e/5er).

See this old post for a quote of those rules:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/94051-question-about-stacking-abilities/?p=2530852

I recommend getting a copy of Hero Designer as it makes creating builds like the example below so much easier than doing it by hand.

I made every slot of this OAF HA Multipower 0 END because the character will still be spending END on the STR used to add to this.

30    Acme Club: Multipower, 60-point reserve,  (60 Active Points); all slots OAF (-1)
3f    1)  Smash!: HA +8d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (60 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/4)

[Notes: STR and Maneuvers add damage normally.] - END=0
3f    2)  Poke!: HA +6d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Penetrating (+1/2) (60 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/4)

[Notes: STR and Maneuvers add damage at 2/3 the normal rate.  15 STR adds +2DC.] - END=0
3f    3)  Spin!: HA +4d6+1 (Reduced Negation (1)), Autofire (3 shots; +1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; cost doubled due to Autofire; +1) (60 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/4)

[Notes: STR and Maneuvers add damage at 2/3 the normal rate.  15 STR adds +2DC. The END cost of STR is counted for each 'shot' in the Autofire sequence.] - END=0
 

HM

6e2 page 100

Adding Damage To Attacks With Advantages

Actually,the rules allow for Damage to be added from STR and Manuevers to HA's with Advantages. The final bonus gets prorated by how many Advantages are on the HA. So in the case of +1/4 Autofire the effective rate is 25 STR providing +4DC (it increases at 4/5 the normal rate). The same ratio gets applied to velocity based maneuver damage as well.

HM

If I remember correctly, Multiple Attack imposes a -2 OCV Penalty for every target after the first. It also normally takes a full Phase and reduces the Attacker to 1/2 DCV.

The OP indicates the character has 2 weapon fighting which deals with some or all of the penalties for using an off-hand for a Multiple Attack.

Auto fire doesn't impose OCV Penalties per se - how many times it hits is dependent on how good their To Hit roll is. Combining Autofire attacks with Multiple Attack does require an additional Skill though.

I see nothing wrong with the combo as long as the special effects make sense and the character pays for all the requisite skills and maneuvers.

For more details on all the possible necessary skills see the first post in this John Wick (Keanu Reeves movie) thread. It includes a character write up with all the relevant skill descriptions for a similar combo on the sheet.

Relevant similar abilities:

12    Quick Fire: Autofire (3 shots; +1/4) for up to 60 Active Points of Any Semi-Automatic Weapon of Opportunity, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/2) (22 Active Points); OIF (Any Semi-Automatic Weapon of Opportunity; -1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4)

[Notes: C.A.R. System (Center Axis Relock). Autofire imposes an additional +5 STR Minimum to any weapon used.  This can be offset by using the Brace Maneuver.]  END = 1

 

0    3)  Multiple Attack (Free Maneuver) (Custom Adder)

[Notes: Multiple Attack requires a Full Phase to use (the Rapid Attack Skill, 6E1 87, reduces this to a Half Phase). Using it reduces the character to ½ DCV. The character’s OCV is affected by the number of targets, the types of attacks used, and other factors (see below).  A character using Multiple Attack has to make a separate Attack Roll for each attack in the sequence. If he misses any of his Attack Rolls, all remaining attacks in that Multiple Attack sequence automatically miss also.  A character making a Multiple Attack must expend END or Charges for each attack made (this includes any that automatically miss because he missed one in the sequence). He may elect to stop the Multiple Attack after any successful attack. This does not retroactively diminish the OCV and DCV penalties for using the Maneuver, but it saves END or Charges.  A character making a Multiple Attack against multiple targets can choose to attack some or all of them more than once, but this of course increases the number of attacks (and thus the OCV penalty suffered; see below). For example, Thunderbird could make a Multiple Attack with his pistol by shooting Lazer once, Mechassassin twice, and Steel Commando once. That’s a total of four attacks, so he suffers a -6 OCV penalty on all the Attack Rolls.]

 

10    4)  Rapid Attack

[Notes: A character with this Combat Skill has a heightened ability to move in combat. He can make a Multiple Attack (6E2 73) as a Half Phase Action, instead of a Full Phase Action. (This includes Multiple Attacks made with the Two-Weapon Fighting Skill.) No roll is required, and all other Multiple Attack penalties and rules apply.]

 

Autofire Skills

[Notes: (List) Using any combination of these maneuvers takes a Half Phase (Rapid Attack) and halves a character’s DCV.]

5    2)  Rapid Autofire

[Notes: A character with this Skill may use Autofire attacks with the Combat Maneuver Multiple Attack (see 6E2 73). He must fire the same number of shots in each burst of Multiple Attack Autofire (i.e., if he fires 3 shots at his first target, he must fire 3 shots at all targets, even if his Autofire could fire up to 5 shots). He suffers Multiple Attack’s cumulative -2 OCV penalty for each burst of Autofire fired after the first, in addition to any standard Autofire penalties.]

HM

A lot depends on how faithful of a translation you are going for.

AOE Any Area plus a minor Limitation defining the 'order of the chain" might be the most simple approach.

The Trigger Advantage could also be employed to define the effect with much more accuracy.

(ex:  AOE Accurate + Trigger to hit 1 target and then auto-target the next closest Target X number of times)

HM

Nothing wrong with that at all.  I'm guessing that the tone of your game leans a little towards realism so making distinctions between different styles of Martial Arts pays off.   My previous answers were intended for players unfamiliar with 6e.  Just learning to deal with all the possible interactions of the basic combat maneuvers can be daunting.  Learning all the various flavors of Martial maneuvers as well on top of learning the powers might overwhelm some players new to the system.  If the players are already familiar with the 4e Ninja Hero and Ultimate Martial Artist books then the 6e Martial Arts book is probably the least beneficial since the degree of change in the martial arts mechanics from 4e through 6e is minor compared to those in the powers system.

HM

Invisibility has been mentioned, but I'm thinking of someone who could turn both invisible and intangible--an ultimate breaking and entering specialist. An impersonation artist would be good as well, whether the person is very well skilled or possesses actual shapeshifting abilities.

 

Hope that helps.

I think you just described the Martian Manhunter minus the mental powers.

HM

I don't know if an extra Limitation is actually what is needed at all in this case.

I think the 'real world' special effect most folks are thinking about is the comparison between blunt objects and those with a cutting edge. At first this seems to match up with Normal vs. Killing damage but there are obvious exceptions. A tire iron could arguably be considered blunt killing damage and would do diddly-squat for someone holding it while entangled.  The same goes for an Ice Pick as it also doesn't have an 'edge' to slice with. A pocket knife does though.  The slicing action of a 'sharp' blade doesn't require any significant STR to slowly be used to cut through things.  Light Sabers are a much more obvious fictional example of this.  When a Jedi shoves their light saber through a blast door and then proceed to slowly cut a hole out like slicing through butter they really aren't doing anything but letting the 'blade' do its own cutting. This has been modeled in the last 2 Star Hero books by using a Compound Power build with part 1 being a traditional KA with a STR minimum (that usually doesn't add to damage) and part 2 built as a KA with a Limited Damage Shield/AOE Surface (whatever touches the blade). The same could be done for real world 'sharp bladed' weapons (a 1 pip KA with a Limited AOE Surface Advantage). I don't think this needs to actually be stated out but there is value in noting it in a similar fashion to how the Talents have traditional Power builds listed in the core books.

HM

I also recommend the Hero System Martial Arts book. Great material in there!

This is a great book (and is in fact one of my favorites) but it is not as essential 'up front' for a new game for new Champions players.  The same goes for the HERO System Equipment Guide and Bestiary books. All are excellent resources but are primarily targeted for heroic instead of superheroic games.

HM

Thanks for the advice.

I can see that the Champions Powers and Champions 6e would be very helpful and that the Universe and Villain books would be beneficial.

What is on the 6th edition core books that isn'going to be in the Complete,Powers or Champions 6e books if I'm only going to be playing Champions?

 

PaladinAg

The core books have more examples for each individual Power.  The Powers book is organized more by special effect.  It's essentially the equivalent of the HERO System Grimoire (Fantasy HERO spell lists for schools of magic) except it's types of superpowers instead.

HM

There are some passive benefits to having a high STR that cannot be simulated easily via a Framework slot.

Example - resisting being Grabbed during a segment that the character has no Phase or has already used their Phase's actions.

HM

I think the DC Cinematic Universe is a pretty good template for this.  The government reaction to Superman in 'Man of Steel' is about as 'real world' as it can get compared to the helicarriers in the MCU. BVS and Suicide Squad establish a small amount of pre-Superman history but it's all in the shadows.

HM

True dat. I'm referring to the 4ed Hero System rules, not 4ed Champions.

The rules included in the original big blue book hardback Champions 4e are exactly the same as those in the HERO System 4e softcover book.  They even share the same page numbers.  The Champions Sourcebook section of the hardback has a separate numbering.

The point I was trying to make is that Champions Deluxe 4e might have a few significant changes to the 4e rules similar to the differences between 5e and 5er. 

from:

https://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/49228/champions-4th-edition

The deluxe edition of Champions (Product Code 451) differs from the hardcover (Product Code 400) and the softcover (Product Code 450) editions in having:

• New interior graphics and layout.
• Rules corrections.
• An index.
• Smythe-sewn hardcover binding.
• HeroMaker Software.

HM

It's worth noting that there were 3 distinct releases of Champions 4e.

1. The original hardback - same system rules as softcover HERO 4e

2. The softcover Champions 4e (I didn't even know this was a thing till this year) - same rules.

3. Champions Deluxe 4e hardback. New layout - some rules updates/changes as well.

I own the latter two but have not had the time to really compare them to the original. It also sucks that there is no PDF version of them to be found like there is for the original 4e rules.

HM

You might want to check out and post pics to this related thread as well:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/92945-need-more-hero/

HM

Here are the 3 best resources that I am aware of:

https://rpggeek.com/rpg/329/hero-system-5th-edition (scroll down to the linked items section).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hero_System_Products

https://web.archive.org/web/20101130192140/http://rhinobunny.com/derek/hero/herogameslist.html

Good Luck.

HM

Champions 6e, Champions Universe 6e, The 3 Villain Books and Champions Powers are probably the best stuff to start with. Then maybe the full 6e1&2 books.

Here are my why's:

Champions 6e is the best Superhero Genre book to date and was co-written by the late Aaron Allston.

Champions Universe and the Villain books are just a great resource if you don't want to have to build everything yourself.

Champions Powers is a great list of pre-built abilities that are designed to help with the heavy lifting for players new to the system.

The full set of 6e1&2 core rules have so many more examples than what are included in Champions Complete.  It is the core rules for ALL genres, not just Champions, but is 99.99% compatible with Champions Complete.  If you or your players enjoy pushing the system then the Advanced Players Guides (1&2) are a good investment as well.

HM

Available in PDF format that is.

HM

Easiest way to SEE the full line up of HERO 6e/ Champions 6e stuff would be to follow this link:

http://rpggeek.com/rpg/11085/champions-hero-system-6

Virtually everything is available from the Herogames store.

Champions 6e, Champions Universe 6e, The 3 Villain Books and Champions Powers are probably the best stuff to start with. Then maybe the full 6e1&2 books.

HM

That's exactly what I meant.  I got the idea from the TimeWars series of novels from the 80's. 

HM

It's arguable that Martial Damage Classes get a discount due to the requirement to actually purchase a minimum number of Martial Maneuvers & the requirement to be used with one of those maneuvers.

HM

Interesting pic I've never seen before.

John Wick 2 movie poster:

HM

Did this get posted yet?  (Spoiled because it's a little long.)

 

 

 

Yes.

There is a link to in the first post - it's at the top of the character write up in the spoiler tag.

HM

While they are for 6e these may still be useful for ideas.

http://www.herogames.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=user_activity&sid=f0bd3788634f9732a34cb218cd44793a&mid=2288&userMode=all&search_app=downloads&search_app_filters[downloads][searchInKey]=files&search_app_filters[downloads][files][sortKey]=date&search_app_filters[downloads][files][sortDir]=1

The download links for each include an html attachment so all can be viewed without needing to own a copy of Hero Designer.  I just have never had the patience to learn how to create my own website to host this small amount of stuff I create.

HM