GaryB

Re: Where else do you roll down? Cause then you are going to start making the HERO system look just like d20 if you bring skills into the fold. Most skills are based off a statistic (save General ones). Your character would start looking like this: STR 20, Roll +4 DEX 15, Roll +3 INT 18, Roll +3 EGO 10, Roll +2 PRE 5, Roll +1 Starting to look familiar? Now you buy a skill for 3 points at base level (+0 to a 3d6 roll). If it's an INT skill for the above character then they would get the Skill +3, and would pay 2 points more for +1 to that roll. Starts looking really similiar to d20. However, either system works. But the skill system for HERO as is works fine and is simple. It doesn't require as much as the To-Hit rolls to figure out. Doesn't even require more than rolling the dice and stating how much you rolled under your skill. The GM determines how well you succeeded or failed. The to-hit system is a different mechanic overall to figure this out as it requires additional math and/or input from another party before even rolling and determining success (er...wow...I think I confused myself). For skills, and skill vs skill the roll-down system seems to work fine. Doesn't require a followup roll (of effect or damage) that is roll-up/higher is better. Thus short circuiting peoples math-minds.

Re: Who is Dr. Mindkiller? How about even a different take. A Doctor who is highly skilled in PRE skills and has a high PRE and EGO. Uses devices to capture victims, then proceeds to weaken thier EGO over time with drugs and interrogation. He has gained a lot of respect by other super villains because of his usefulness in twisting people's minds over the long run, rather than temporary effects such as Mind Control. His methods are torturous and powerful with extreme consequences. Even a hero caught by him should have troubles sleeping for months to come if they are captured by him. He is a horrific person to deal with. His torture knows no bounds, and he's always seeking new ways to inflict control through pain and suffering. The only reason why other super villains work with him for any length of time is because they are afraid of what would happen if they didn't. Dr. Mindkiller being the crafty person he is studies all he meets and finds a poison or torture to fit the needs. "So Mr. Iron Dragon, you are immune to poisons are you? However, after careful study your skin seems to be most accepting of my Biolitic Acid". Dr. Mind Killer proceeds to use his new chemical to drain Iron Dragon of defenses and Body, most likely even Speed...just because he thought that far ahead. He would be a man with a base full of escapes and traps. The traps are even more scarey than they are deadly (Traps with PRE attacks). Just remember, being an Arch Villain of sorts he has backup plans to his backup plans. The players should expect to get through a trap only to find that the way they are using is a trap as well. "We managed to stop all the pendulums from swinging, but the mechanical gears still running! They are beginning to snap and the room collapsing on top of us!" As a disadvantage, this Doctor Mindkiller also takes to using the very drugs he manufactures. Often this leaves him in a vulnerable state and would be the best time to confront him (even after dealing with his insidious traps).

Re: Where else do you roll down? Either way works really. I think it comes down to a matter of preference. I used the 3d6+OCV vs DCV+10 this past week and people took to it more naturally than they did the normal way. It's not a matter that they couldn't do the math to begin with, and thats not even the problem. Its a function of the average human mind to think forward. Addition is easier than subtraction in the human mind. The higher rolls seemed to make them think they were rewarded and gave them a better attitude when rolling. Yes, it doesn't matter if you roll low, roll high in the end. The results are the same. And if you have a majority of players who are used to the system this way, then go with it. In my game I have 3 people who are absolutely new to the HERO system, and one who has played it before but not in great length. Of the 3 new players, only 2 have played other games while the other maybe played 1st ED AD&D years ago. I gave them the low down on how the system worked before the game began, and even handed out a handy cheat sheet for the basic systems of HERO, but it confused them to have to roll low on one roll and then high on another roll. They aren't stupid people, it was just hard to adjust to up and down rythym of the dice. So this week I tried the roll up method and it caught on faster and seemed to bring a more positive attitude amung the players. While I dont think HERO should change to a roll-up method in the next edition (if such a beast needs to exist), it should at least show it as an alternative. And it wouldn't help sales even if this was changed, only good marketing of product amung the gaming community can do that. You have to market the merits of over the short commings (which really HERO doesn't have any). Rather than pick on HERO's math nightmares or rolling woes, people should be talking up the fact that HERO, in one book is a gaming system for all needs, is self-balancing and allows players and game masters to play the game they want to without limiting either to a set of cemented rules. Want to play a Wizard who uses spells based on the sense of smell? SURE! Come on in! Can't do that in d20. Can't even make that up in d20 without coming across balance issues. Want to play a were-jaguar who comes from an ancient world, coming to wreak havoc in our modern world? SURE! Come on in! Can't do this in White Wolf, this character doesn't fit the canon because even the universe is cemented down like the rules!

Re: Blocking and deflecting But that is also the nature of the beast of balance. When making yourself block HtH attacks, this means something is in range to do so and the guy shooting you from elsewhere doesn't mean much at the moment. If you are not getting attacked with HtH, then you are free to deflect ranged attacks. If you really want to do both at the same time, you're better off buying the 5 point per +1 DCV with a focus and activation or skill roll.

Re: Invisible to Touch Group? You're all assuming the person is also invisible to sight group as well. What if the person is just invisible to touch group in general? As I said really really briefly before, it would akin to being frictionless. I've never had a PC take invis to touch group before in one of my games, but if I had to, it would be sort of like Desolid, but not really. Desolid has some great advantages to it that you just can't get anywhere else. Such as needing a power advantage to actually effect a desolid character with an attack (unless of course the Desolid is built to not protect against attacks). Invis vs Touch cannot allow you to pass through objects nor even through tiny cracks. You still carry the same mass and size (unless of course you can also shape shift) when you are Invis vs Touch. The way I look at it. When you are immune vs Sight Group, people cannot target you in a normal fashion, giving you an advantage. Even if people know where you are generally they suffer OCV penalties when hitting you. Your power effects can still be seen when you attack, and there are still other ways of detecting you. Invis vs Touch then should give some advantages and disadvantages like any other form of invis. But not enough to outshine Desolid and not even touch upon changing the actual mind of the character. So if a character was frictionless, as I think Invis vs Touch would do I would allow the following. Without Fringe 1) Cannot be grabbed by STR based attacks (including TK, unless it effects pourous objects as well) if the power has no fringe. (Think of a greased pig effect). Target can still be entrangled normally. 2) Cannot using clinging powers nor can s/he be clung to with the clinging power. 3) Cannot grab onto (or hold) any objects, wear any objects (clothes) and cannot access any foci. The exception is the focus that generates the Invis vs Touch. 4) Can still be attacked normally by any other attack. With Fringe 1) +4 DCV vs Grabs by any STR Based attacks (Including TK as above). 2) Can use clinging to 1/2 effect, and the same with being clung onto. 3) Still cannot use objects normally, or must make a STR roll or DEX roll to hold onto any items each phase. Including accessable foci. Of course, the focus that generates the power can still be used. 4) Can still be attacked normally by other means.

Re: Sentient Weapons I remember a while ago I did this for a heroic level game. It involved a different type of character sheet, or you could go with no character sheet and simply assign it powers that only the sword can use. Elderasi's Sword OAF (-1), Independent (-2), Real Weapon (-1/4), Required Hands 2 (-1/2) +1d6 HKA +1d6 HKA vs Evil Creatures Only +1 CSL with Sword (5 point level for applied limitations) 15 INT (Does not figure into character's statistics) 15 EGO 20 PRE 20 COM Detect: Evil Creatures as Targeting Sense KS: Evil Creatures 11-

Re: Invisible to Touch Group? I would say Invisibility vs Touch is akin to being frictionless.

Re: Horror Hero Here's some unedited stuff I had written up for my campaign source book called Brighton Hollow. Feel free to use it. I want to concentrate more on a bestiary and campaign setting more than the horror background itself. ----------------------------- Objectives: To create a good source of material to create a horror campaign. Whether players want to create an X-Files type game or a ‘slasher’ type game, this material will provide the means to set up a campaign set around such a setting. The source also contains a good starting point campaign area called Brighton Hollow and a few time periods in which the characters can play with. New creatures will be supplied along with the various ways to use them in any horror campaign. This material will also describe various spiritual and demonic forces and how they interact with the HERO system. TYPE OF CAMPAIGN Psychological – This type of campaign relies on implied horrific events. It takes into question the reality of existence. It usually involves strange events that change the characters perceptions. There are so many directions one can take a psychological campaign. This story could involve a subtle haunting that gets worse as time goes by, completely altering reality and sanity for the character. It could also involve the horrors of drugs and perhaps even the ultimate event of death itself of the character. The best examples of Psychological Horror would be such games like Silent Hill, or the movie Jacob’s Ladder. Unexplainable Events – A campaign in this setting involves a series of events that cannot be explained by anyone involved around the events. The occurrences are completely bizarre and begin to alter the perceptions of those who become involved. Sometimes this involved a large locale that is struck by many unexplained deaths, or perhaps a change in personality between people the characters know. This is much like the Psychological campaign except it is not personal to the character, and occurs on a larger scale. Tones in this type of campaign are still subtle, but not so much as in a Psychological campaign. Examples of this type would be Village of the Damned, or The X-Files. Unstoppable Killer – There is a killer out there. He is unstoppable. Or is he? These type of campaigns involve a master villain that keeps coming back for more and upping his (or her) kill count. The reasons for the killer’s spree of murder are largely unknown, but usually become more apparent as time goes on. Typically the characters can find something from the killer’s past to use against him as a weapon. This however, does not always work and the killer will rise again! Good examples of this genre are Friday the 13th Movies, Nightmare on Elm Street and of course; Halloween. The Haunting – This is a direct interaction with the world beyond. Sometimes the haunting starts out relatively small and harmless. As time goes on, the haunting event starts to take on a more malevolent demeanor. Usually the haunting is associated with a very limited location, but some may attach themselves to certain people and follow them around. Some can even be passed from place to place, person to person. There are so many things one can do with a haunting story. Good examples of a Haunting are; The Exorcist, Poltergeist, The Ring, and The Fog. Zombies Attack! – For some reason, the dead just won’t stay dead and you just need a good shotgun and lots of ammunition to stay alive yourself. Be careful not to get hit by one of these monstrosities or you’ll be damned yourself! Survivors will be treated to a life on the run and a deep paranoia to survive. Good examples of this are of course; Night of the Living Dead, Resident Evil, Life Force, and 28 Days Later. Monsters from Beyond? – Usually this type of story involves some sort of radiation or accident that turns some innocent everyday creature into something we’d never want to encounter. It involves either a single large creature causing havoc nearby, or even a swarm of insidious creatures causing troubles with the locals. Some classic examples of this are; The Birds, Arachnophobia, Eight Legged Freaks, The Creature from the Black Lagoon, and Anaconda. Supernatural Invasion – Vampires and werewolves, tales of creatures reanimated by mad scientists. Everything classically horrific fits here. Usually this type of story involves some sort of creature from the realms of darkness coming into town and starting up trouble. Typically the denizens of said town do not know what is going on until it’s too late and the creature has done much damage. The heroes in this story are usually unlikely ones just seeking a way out or a way to stop the problem. Good examples of this are; Phantasm, Salem’s Lot, Dracula, and Frankenstein. Alien Terror – This story involves a creature of alien origin coming to earth and slowly causing problems for the locals. Usually some world domination plan is involved for the alien in question, but often the creature is no more than a beast trying to survive in a new realm. The creature has no problems with killing to either cover it’s tracks or for food. Good examples of such a campaign would be; The Thing, Alien, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, or Predator. Demon Gore – A story involving the bowels of hell regurgitating upon the surface of the world is where this campaign comes in handy. Usually it involves an artifact, ritual or even occult accident that summons forth one of the powers of hell onto earth where it will begin to take over and begin it’s reign of blood. Good examples of this are; Hell Raiser, Wish Master, or Event Horizon. HORROR PLAY STYLE A horror campaign is a different beast to run compared to a fantasy, sci-fi campaign or even a super-heroic one. In most horror stories, there is a single problem that is occurring that has (in most cases) a finite resolution to that problem. Also you must realize that most horror stories involve protagonists that are not in it for the long haul. They are mostly people who got involved by chance and just want to get out as fast as they can. There are of course ways around this problem through a creative story teller. However, be prepared to run a single shot adventure and see how it evolves. Did the characters completely solve the problem, or are their still things lingering that they did not deal with? As said, a creative GM can build a long term campaign in a horror setting if they are creative enough and get a good element of characters playing in the story. The other problem is that most horror stories do not involve large amounts of combat. This can be a detractor to most players who like to use the system to enforce brutal actions to solve most problems. Players must understand from the beginning (barring the type of horror game you are running) that they may not get involved in combat much. They must also understand that their character is a normal person (or mostly normal) who has mortal fears of unknown things and death. They must use more skills and problem solving skills in most cases rather than brute force. Survival is more important than glory. SCARED YET? You will also find that players in most cases are not going to be scared of anything. Don’t attempt to scare them, they won’t fall for it. What is more important is if their character is scared and role-playing fits the setting they are placed in. Players must get it through their heads that they do not start as heroes. They are normal people in an apparently normal world until the events of the story start changing that view. Discussed later are game mechanics to help gauge how the character is feeling in the game. These of course are completely optional and should not take the place of actual role-playing. Instead they should be used to aid role-playing. CHARACTER PACKAGES Paranormal Researcher – This type of character explores the phenomena that inhabits our world and tries to understand it. Most P.R.’s are believers in the events as something beyond our world, and a few are skeptics searching to disprove everything that they can find. Either way, the PR is after the truth and science of paranormal activity to either prove or disprove it. In most cases, both are burdened by bias. The Occultist – The Occultist is a person who is involved in paranormal activity and has a strong belief in the underlying systems and currents within the world of the supernatural. Typically other people view these folk as strange or even insane. But in the world of Horror HERO they can prove to be an asset. Occultists can be psychics, tribal shamans, and sometimes self proclaimed witches and warlocks. Clergy – Religious officials of any denomination often find themselves suddenly sucked into a world they prayed really didn’t exist. These folk were used to a normal life of religious devoutness and did not expect that they would have to deal with the horrors that lay in waiting. Good examples are typically Priests. But almost any religion fits into this. Some good types of characters to come out of these type are Exorcists and even Priests who have lost their faith. Some Clergy do fall into the Occultist and Paranormal Research, but their training and scholar aptitude into religious study makes their views a little different from either of those types. Government Official – This person is only involved in the paranormal because their job has pulled them into it. They don’t understand it, and rarely believe in the underlying forces behind it. They are police officers investigating a murder, the soldier guarding the zombie factory, or even the FBI agent looking for the truth. Very rarely are these folks blessed with any useful knowledge about the paranormal, but they usually have good training and helpful contacts. The Innocent Bystander – The innocent bystander is usually an unconnected person who stumbles into a bad situation. They come from any background. This includes students, young professionals, a hermit in the woods, college kids on a vacation, or even the typical single person trying to find the meaning of life. However, they have found some sort of link to the horrors around them by chance. These horrors are not permanently part of their life, but it will sure shake them up and change them forever. Inherited Curse – This is a type of innocent bystander. These people have been pulled into the world of the supernatural or horrific events by either being related to someone who did something bad, or by finding something perhaps they shouldn’t have. The difference between them and the bystander is that they know something about their predicament, but are usually unsure of how to deal with it. Examples of the Inherited Curse character is someone who is given a house, or a character who’s ancestors have been known to dabble in the darker world. Even people who have been directly cursed fall into this category. A bad reputation or insanity is what usually follows this character around. Family Folk – These are normal folk. They have a job, perhaps a spouse and kids and a nice house. However, these family folk in the world of horror have usually stumbled somehow into the world of shadows and find themselves linked to it somehow, unable to escape. Family folk usually have DNPC’s to look after and protect from the dark world. They differ from the Innocent bystander in that they cannot seem to shake the problems they have stumbled onto. Usually they have bought a haunted house or some other dismal thing. They also find themselves trying to survive monsters that have come out of their woods. The types of character the GM allows is dependant largely on the campaign type that is going to be run. In the Brighton Hollow campaign, any of the above character types work just fine.

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page! Yes. Why any subtraction is needed is beyond me. Though if you want to print it down: OCV + 3d6 vs DCV + 10

Re: Crazy Idea to Remove the Math The thing I dont get, is you only have to do this math essentially ONCE! When you create the character. Thats not so bad. Of course, spending experience may have to recalculate, but it's still not so bad. PLUS, when you have nice programs like Hero Designer, life gets much easier. I think people get more confused at the openess of the system more than the math. People dont understand the open ended power system and are too used to closed off specifically worded abilities (ala d20).

Re: Semi-Uncontrolled Powers You could also be creative and use a form of Accidental Change or Enraged.

Re: What would this Advantage and Limitation be worth...? I may be going in the wrong direction here, but instead of making a rules change, wouldn't it be easier for a character to buy CSL's with an autofire attack and Rapid fire skills to allow them to hit more with an autofire attack? If you chance it to 1, instead of 2 per each hit, a character with CSL's as above will devistate things by hitting much more than you expect. Edit: CL's to CSL

Re: Making Hitting Calcs Easier True, which is why I made the change DCV +10 in the new system. But this method lends to having math go one way and making the higher roll count. Now on 10,000 rolls on an average of about 60-65% hit ratio on even CV's.

Re: Making Hitting Calcs Easier I did do a search, but didn't come up with any directly on this subject. The problem I see above is that you are still jostling numbers back and forth. Add something here, then subtract another number here. Lends to over complication again. This is suggested in the 5th ED book in the combat section. We've tried to use it, but confuses my players who are new to the game even more than the normal system. And it still lends to adding here, subtracting here during the process of the roll. In the system I suggested, all rolls are straight forward. Adding only during the roll. The player who rolls to hit, adds OCV to 3d6 to overcome DCV + 11. However, with the program I created. I am finding that DCV+10 provides a better array of results. This gives the new system a chance to roll really good every once in a while (this is where the old system rolled really bad, and vice versa). I think I may try this on my next game session this week. To me, going in one direction with the roll's math seems to work better than going back and forth with the math. NOTE: I'm not talking about DCV and OCV modifiers which are considered before the roll is made, just the math in the roll itself. Thank you for taking the time to read this mess.

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before in another thread, as I couldn't find anything on it. But it seems to me, the method of hitting in HERO has been made just a tad over complicated than it needs to be. The Old Method: Target = (OCV + 11) - DCV, Roll Below Target on 3d6 This makes very little sense to have to roll lower for this, and have to turn around to roll higher on the next roll for effect. Not really all that bad, but inconsistant. New Method Target = DCV + 11, Roll 3d6 + OCV and roll over Target Number More consistant with wanting to roll higher on every roll than rolling lower on one, and higher on the next roll. Now. I have written a program to test the hit/miss ratio on the same die roll on the old and new system. I will admit there are times when the Old System hits better when all things are even (OCV & DCV), but strangely enough, the New Method will even out more consistantly over time (50% hits and and misses). 10 Passes of 100 Rolls (Even CV's) (Hits/Misses) Pass 1: Old 56/44 New 54/46 Pass 2: Old 61/39 New 48/52 Pass 3: Old 69/31 New 45/55 Pass 4: Old 69/31 New 46/54 Pass 5: Old 65/35 New 44/56 Pass 6: Old 59/41 New 50/50 Pass 7: Old 62/38 New 56/44 Pass 8: Old 61/39 New 53/47 Pass 9: Old 58/42 New 51/49 Pass 10: Old 74/26 New 40/60 What I have noticed, because the process is essentially reversed. That when the Old system hits alot, the new system misses alot. But even from these 10 passes of the program you can see the new system has a better ratio of hit/misses (closer to 50%). Now this still works with such things as Autofire which require a certain amount of points rolled under the target in the old system. The same still stands with the new system. On average, in an even CV test you will hit or miss by 2 or 3. However, where the Old system may miss by 3, the new system would hit by 3 on the same roll. As far as uneven tests, higher DCV and OCV both systems keep near to the same amount of hit/misses. What this would mean in the end, is that you are adding 11 to DCV to create an overall target number. I would like comments, suggestions and perhaps some live tests if people are willing to try it in their games.

With the sense adders Discriminatory and Analyze can the character now tell if someone is using mental link, and then tap into the conversations and listen? Or would they still need Telepathy?