Chris Goodwin

Ninja-Bear, just curious. Are you using either of the two supplements (Champions II and Champions III)?

Delayed Effect probably overrides that; it specifies that if you have Delayed Effect with Charges that you can prepare all of your charges at once. Is the Extra Time part of the preparation? Extra Time specifies that you can't attack during the Extra Time period, but presumably once that time has passed, and the power is safely prepared, you can probably throw it at will. Have you considered trying Differing Modifiers? You'd build the spell as it is cast, without the Delayed Effect modifier and without any preparation Extra Time, but with any casting time, Charges, material components Focus, etc., built in. Use the Real Cost of that as the base cost for the preparation ability, and apply Delayed Effect here, along with the preparation Extra Time, spell book Focus if applicable, etc. You could justify reducing the Extra Time value for preparation if you feel like it.

I don't recall that being the case. I just checked 6e and it's not in there. It's up to the GM to set limits on how many Delayed Effect powers a character can prep.

There might very well be a reference to that in 1e. The reason for doing it that way back then was that the noncombat multiple for Flight was calculated differently, such that NC Flight was always ridiculously high.

I have a vague recollection of that being around the time of the sixth edition preliminary discussions. I may have written up something like it myself, but don't recall details.

If I as GM have designed a magic system that assumes the use of Multipowers, but I've gated it off via additional point expenditures (via required Skills, Talents, Perks, etc.), I'm probably not going to have other characters with suites of special abilities also bought via Multipowers. (Should we try to make a distinction between Fantasy Hero and Fantasy Champions? I would say that Fantasy Champions implies higher power levels and more open, player driven power builds, while Fantasy Hero implies lower power levels and world/magic system design by the GM.)

Further, many magic systems require some kind of additional point expenditure by the character for buy in. Some require a separate magical Skill per "school" of magic. Some require a Talent or a Perk. It's not impossible that a wizard might have to spend 30 points up front before buying a single spell. Out of fairness, if I the GM have gated off magic to that degree, I'm not going to feel too bad about limiting Powers, including Multipowers, for other "classes", or denying them completely.

But, for ordinary weapons, and even to an extent with magical ones... I as GM wouldn't require you to pay points for HA in order to use the blunt end, flat of the blade, etc., for normal damage. To me that's part of SFX.

In 6th edition, you can pay 1 point to add 1 meter of reach. I think it's considered 1 meter of Stretching, but I think it just gets treated as an adder.

I'd say the same could apply to a magic item with multiple functions, or a special ability with multiple functions or a "path".

Also, all of this is true with or without magic (or not magic) Multipowers.

I'm out of rep for today, but Pawsplay, you and I are on the same wavelength.

Those are the same kinds of questions I'd ask a spellcaster at character creation, in Fantasy Hero. I'd probably have a lot of the answers built into the magic systems. Part of "not D&D" means, no "level up" powers. You don't get to freely spend XP willy nilly. In fact that also goes for most of the Champions games I've ever played. Fantasy Hero is GM driven in a way that Champions really isn't.

Granted. The same applies without a Multipower.

The other side of "just spend one XP on a new spell" is, how are you learning the spell? How does the magic system you're playing under handle learning a new spell? Do wizards in this world freely trade spells with one another, or are they extremely jealous and guarded? Can you learn spells by being taught, or do you need to read them from a scroll or someone else's spellbook? Do you need to research them yourself, which might require access to a library, a laboratory, mystical reagents, and so on? Or is there some other method?

I'm operating under the assumption that there is a GM, and that they've looked over the things they're advised to, like for instance Multipowers, and especially Multipowers in a Fantasy Hero game. The GM will create the magic system for their Fantasy Hero game, as is generally considered the default assumption for Fantasy Hero. And we're in the Fantasy Hero board right now, so. Multipowers are not the default assumption for a heroic, e.g. a Fantasy Hero, game. If a GM wants to allow them, great! They can. But there are good reasons not to. 6e1 p. 398 recommends against. Fantasy Hero 6e p. 267 gives the GM things to think about when deciding whether or not to. Yes, a Multipower full of "eff you" abilities can be abusive. That's why we have a GM. We can go on all day about perfectly spherical game constructs of uniform temperature and density, but none of it matters until and unless it's going into a game, with a GM. I don't see the fact that someone can write down a list of abusive abilities on a character sheet, and get the math to add up, as a problem, because I assume that at some point in the process there's a GM.

Multipower has a ⚠️. Further, it is explicitly stated that Frameworks are most appropriate for superheroic games (6e1 p. 398). I'll admit that it never says it explicitly. However, I can't recall a single published instance of a Multipower that wasn't based around a unifying theme or special effect -- I'm specifying published here because "list of random powers I threw together under a Multipower" doesn't count for these purposes. And I can find explicit verbiage that recommends, in heroic campaigns, Multipower be used to represent a device or piece of equipment with multiple settings (ibid). GM says no; the noes have it.

Excuse me? Since when? Not In My Game You Don't. Fantasy Hero leaves more of the magic system design up to the GM. The GM does get to say, "That's not how it works in my world." Frameworks have, as far as I can tell, always been intended to be a grouping of powers related to special effect or theme. For historical reasons, Fantasy Hero has tended to discourage the use of Frameworks, but as with anything, it's up to the GM. Multipower is a ⚠️ construct still.

Anyone can make a list of abusive abilities. That doesn't prove anything about what might happen in an actual game.

He has no Complications. He has no background. He has five blank KS's. Presumably these are related to his magic, but... what are they? How did he learn his spells, and from whom? None of his spells are named. They need to be. What are the GM's parameters for the magic system? What is his OAF? How did he learn his martial arts while studying magic? Just because it says in the book that ACV: OMCV vs DCV is +0, doesn't make it so in all games. In fact, ACV has a warning sign by it, and this... "character" looks to be the poster child for why. What is the in-universe rationale for all of his attacks using OMCV to target? The fact that you can write all of this down on a character sheet and get the numbers to add up, by no means makes this a character. I would not accept this submission for any Fantasy Hero game I were to run, even if the character were not only book legal, but my-guidelines legal.

Oh -- yes, it does affect Simplified Healing.

Right here:

This is the last sticking point with me. I'd quibble a bit with your sample Multipower. I would generally red-pencil a 1d6 20 shot Autofire anything, as well as +12 CSLs with it. Agreed on the undesirability of fantasy Champions.

By RAW, sure. Not my favored campaign style, and they wouldn't get any spell-based cost breaks.

I used to be very strongly opposed to Multipowers for magic, for reasons others have mentioned. Yet... I've come up with magic systems where the max Active Points a wizard can have in a spell are limited by some factor -- usually some multiple of the character's Ego. And one possibility in FH 5th and 6th editions is to divide the costs of spells by some amount. If you have an Active Point cap, and individual spells for which you're paying reduced cost... you're already partway to a Multipower. I just have to get over that last bit of opposition in my own head, is all. Edit to add: for that matter, if you're dividing the cost of all spells, or all spells of a certain type, by 2, you're partway to an Elemental Control.