Chris Goodwin

I think that back in the day we had packages count separately from regular Disads for purposes of diminishing returns. 
 
 
Nope!  It's the Drizzt do'Wolverine character with dual katanas, duster, mirrorshades, and a backstory that includes striking out on his own at age 3 after the orphanage he lived in (where he was sent after his parents died) was burned down, leaving him the sole survivor of at least two different tragedies.

That's not even mentioning the ridiculous number of science fiction and mecha games we used it with, or the western game.
 
Generally speaking it was action adventure, but there are a lot of different coats of paint that can go on it. 

I think that back in the day we had packages count separately from regular Disads for purposes of diminishing returns. 
 
 
Nope!  It's the Drizzt do'Wolverine character with dual katanas, duster, mirrorshades, and a backstory that includes striking out on his own at age 3 after the orphanage he lived in (where he was sent after his parents died) was burned down, leaving him the sole survivor of at least two different tragedies.

I think that back in the day we had packages count separately from regular Disads for purposes of diminishing returns. 
 
 
Nope!  It's the Drizzt do'Wolverine character with dual katanas, duster, mirrorshades, and a backstory that includes striking out on his own at age 3 after the orphanage he lived in (where he was sent after his parents died) was burned down, leaving him the sole survivor of at least two different tragedies.

The group that Christopher Taylor and I were part of back then came to a consensus that 75 points wasn't enough to start with, so pretty much all of our games went with 100.  IIRC we kept Disadvantage values and diminishing returns as written in the heroic level games, and further if we were combining anything and the games had slightly different rules then the version in the game we were using took precedence. 
 
Joe, this is making me want to do more work on my "Hero System Third Edition" I've got in my Google Drive.  Not that I need to be distracted from my Star Wars Hero game or the D&D game I've taken on. .

Is it OK to talk about heroic-level 3e Hero System here as well?
 
I just wanted to say that I'd completely forgotten that in 2e and 3e heroic-level games the value of Disadvantages are initially 1/2 as much as their equivalents from Superheroic (rounded in favor of the character, naturally), and then the value of multiple similar Disadvantages declines twice as fast. That's quite a difference from 4e+, and I like it.
 

That's not even mentioning the ridiculous number of science fiction and mecha games we used it with, or the western game.
 
Generally speaking it was action adventure, but there are a lot of different coats of paint that can go on it. 

Looking back, the way disadvantages start at half their values from Champions struck me as surprising given that heroic hero system also decreases the value of additional similar disadvantages twice as quickly as Champions. The net result is that you're likely to end up with 1/3 or even approaching 1/4 the total value of Disadvantages as you would in Champions. Certainly the maximum is half the total value, and you'll only achieve that if in both cases you only choose dissimilar disadvantages. Which jibes with Champions' 100 points vs. Espionage's 50 points -- half.
 
OK, fine. So a few months later Justice Inc comes along and in it characters start with 75 points, or 3/4 the points of Champions (probably so they can buy psychic powers and Weird Talents more easily). But they still have to deal with that same ceiling of 1/2 the Disadvantages value. Should it have been a ceiling closer to 3/4?  Or does it not matter in practice?
 
It's just something I want to put some thought into so I can understand it fully. Maybe I'm missing something. Certainly I don't recall major complaints about this issue back in the 80s. But, there it is, so I want to understand it.
 
If you've worked through this already, please share!

Yeah the only way we ever played Danger International as action adventure stuff like Terminator vs Miami Vice, that kind of thing.  It would work fine for spies, we just didn't have any interest in hard core espionage.

Hero is NOT a Modern, Minimalist, Fiction forward, system. It's a "Universal" system, and that sort of detail would be necessary, especially following the tool box template.

Now rather than sneaky Spy stuff, I tended to run Espionage and D.I. as "modern Mercenary" where it was a Tactical Waregame in a central American Jungle, with Roleplay to give context to the upcoming fights.  As a game, and run at conventions it worked quite well as a Schwazeneggar, or Stallone Movie simulator for entertainment and fun.  You are correct about classic Traveller, and even Mongoose Traveller.3e fits that definition. If guns come out there, most people would put their hands up, as survival was questionable at best if the other guys started shooting. But is that the game you are aiming at?

Finally dipping my toes after all these years (since '07!) into a HERO game pbp...please wish me luck!

On the commonality od magic items even in the scarcity of magic users:
 
 
Chris Goodwin pointed me to a story some time ago that features a potential explanation.  Sometimes people become "taken" with a drive to create something.  Often it is craftsmen and artisans, but sometimes it is just Joe Anybody.  This drive lasts as long as it takes to complete the thing or things they are crafting.
 
It becomes an obsession, and the crafter may ignore hunger, elements, and go days without sleep.  When the frenzy ends, the item or items he has creatwd will be magical, even if he himself knows nothing about magic.
 
He will not know how he created it- he may not even remember having been taken by creative fervor- and he will most likely never be abke to repeat what he did.
 
Now I know it isn't Greyhawk, but it is a potential explanation for all those oeky wands, rings, and bracers lying about the countryside and scattered through various dungeons.
 
 
Alternatively, magic items are always magic.  Even a wand with Charges, if left alone for a couple if decades, will return to full charge.  Those that are broken or destroyed will reappear in a century or two.  Factor in a world age of ten thousand years or so, and you could litter the place with magical items.
 
 
 

Oh Duke, you come so close, sometimes to my fantasy HERO system, which is probably the other side of the spectrum to yours! 
 
I think there are a few things that could be added and a chunk of stuff taken away.  What you dislike so much is often the complexity people like putting in and the volume of chat around adding that complexity.
 
You like to eyeball stuff.  You grok the system so deeply that you are happy handwaving a bunch of stuff because you KNOW it will work and trust the underlying system to function in that way.
 
Problem is that where you see simplicity, other folk, especially new GMs see vague.
 
They want the detail and when you start looking close at the simulation, it has holes, and so they fill the holes with detail.
 
I think the biggest holes are partly due to the systems infrastructure.  Personally I see some characteristics as black boxes that skew the skills and powers of the game (others are just counters - like STUN, END, and BODY - or guages - like CV).
 
Now, I don't think my system would sell outside the nerd HERO ecosystem.  Designers might use it and teenage boys with endless free-time.  what would sell is clear gameable material.
 
It doesn't matter if DEX is there as characteristic, when I know it is essentially skill levels with all dexterity related skills.  or if STR is there as a number when I know it is skill levels with STR related skills, bonus HtH damage, a gauge of how much mass can be lifted, and bonus leaping.  People expect these numbers because we have been programmed to expect them in our games, not to be able to manipulate them at will.
 
So.  To the "expert" eye and to the newbie, build complexity is detrimental to play.  Some expert GMs know where things are and can confidently tell their players what to roll, how many dice that would be etc. without needing the complexity on display. The newbie player trusts that GM and the in-game results are consistent enough that the trust grows.
 
Other GMs expertise gets expressed in them explicitly nailing down the system for their players, either because they need to "see" the detail to judge it or because their players ask so many questions it needs to be upfront.  This is most likely the position in groups where there has not been a guru style person running games, demonstrating the game play rather than the system detail.
 
My experience is that HERO has heard much more from the second group, not least because it is the one that needs more help with the system.  it has catered to that group by providing the intelligence (system detail) asked for rather than the wisdom (how to run good games with HERO advice) that was needed.
 
I actually think the ICE books (like Robin Hood and Mythic Greece) were what the system needed, and still needs.  Delivering gameable experiences out the box with an underlying unified system that guru GMs could tweak, if desired.
 
Doc (channelling Duke style diatribes early in the morning)

As mentioned in this thread, I decided to try going back to the earliest non-Champions HERO System game, Espionage!, and work from there to find something that will work for how my group uses HERO System and which is easier for newbies to learn.
 
To avoid derailing that Champions 3e thread, I'll post updates here for those interested.
 
I'm just at the start of the process, but here's a basic overview of my plan so far:
Get Espionage! into a usable text format, with a stopover at the complete text which I plan to send to Jason in case he ever has a use for it. Remove the flavor text, CIA info, and such that's specific to the spy genre, leaving behind a more generic RPG. (Espionage was clearly meant to be a generic modern heroic RPG that defaults to espionage, so that won't be too hard.) Determine what (if anything) needs to be added from contemporary HERO publications. Determine what (if anything) needs to be added from 3e publications. Determine what (if anything) needs to be added from later HERO publications. Integrate everything, editing and/or rewriting as needed. Add any illustrations that may be needed (grenade scatter diagram, etc.) Playtest.  
My goal is to end up with a complete but minimalist RPG along the lines of Classic Traveller, B/X D&D, etc. I'll share my journey here for those interested.
 
(For those not interested, I'm sorry for cluttering up the board. This seemed the best place to put this.)
 

I believe, Sir, that rhis is foinf to depend,_entirely_ on what is possible with magic.  For example, if magic can take care od your basic needs such as food, shelter, and clothing for the environment, there is foinf to be a radical,change in societal structure:  I cant possibly be the only person who would look at a job of demanding physical labor for sixty hours a week or anythinf _remotely_ related to customer service and just laugh like hell  if I could alakazam me up a delicious meal and an air conditioned house in which to spend my time, ar a magic carpet by which to travel the world.
 
Similarly, what do people in a world of casual magic fear if it is not starvation or exposure?  Loss of the magic itself seems like a good start.
 
Looking at that, is magic available to anyone, a lucky few, or a ruling elite?  The answer to that will give you a lot of insight into the society.  For example, a lucky few may realize that they are in an enviable position and make no bones,about using their magic for their own benefit even to the detreiment of others.  "What are they going to do?  Stop me?"
 
Well, that is one idea.  How do we stop them?  Arrest them?  Somehow deposed them?  What does either answer suggest?
 
And so on amd so forth.
 
If magic is availqble to everyone. It will likely come with laws and regulations for its use.  What do those look like?  What is the downside to violaring them?  What is the pumishment for violating them?  Who is in charge of doing the investigation, and how are the punishments meted out?
 
What other forves exist in this world (churches, secret societies, government agencies, demigods, demons- you name it- and how does the use of magic affect them?  What would they like to see sone differently regarding rhe use of magic?  Do they plan to make that happen?  How do you stop them?  Who is in charge of that?
 
 
Those are just the first questions that pop into my head, and,I think a solid campaign can be built just from the answers,you come,up with.
 
 

It sounds like you might find some inspiration in the world of Aaron Allston's novel Doc Sidhe, mixing pulp with myth and folklore. Maybe update it to a more modern world?

Shadowrun without the punk?
 
 

I've always wanted to play in an urban fantasy game set in modern Earth where the supernatural was just out there and unremarkable, no Masquerade or similar.  Tried to run one a few times but never got very far.

Howdy folks! I've been anxious to share this news with you until I had more than just promises to share. 
 
I am developing the Hero System for FoundryVTT, under license with Hero Games, and I am just wrapping up on the foundation before moving into automation. My goal is to keep this as simple as possible, focus on automating the things that have greatest impact (e.g., using/tracking END), and allow others to build on it. 
 
Hero for Foundry will take 2 forms:
 
Hero 6E Basic will be a FREE ($0) system for FoundryVTT that will only include content from the Hero System 6E Basic Rulebook. You will be able to add skills, maneuvers, talents, powers etc from any Hero book, so you can do more than just what's in Hero Basic. The core functionality of the system will be present:
Combat Status Dice Rolling (including counting BODY) Speed Chart/Turn Tracking Character input will be manual (type it in, drag/drop skills/perks/talents/powers) with no power calculation  
Hero 6E Complete (name to be finalized) will be a PAID ($TBD) system for FoundryVTT will include content from 6E1 and 6E2, and will be built on Hero 6E Basic with the following additions:
More automation  HeroDesigner Import Support for Complete Adventures Support for Content Packs (e.g., Star Hero, Fantasy Hero, Grimoire, etc.)  
Once the Hero 6E Basic Foundry VTT System is complete enough I will release it. Timing is unclear, but should be around June/July timeframe, possibly earlier. At that point we will gather feedback, fix things that need fixing, and then start talking about Hero 6E Complete. 
 
Hero 6E Complete will be funded by a crowdfunding campaign. We will have stretch goals related to more complex functionality, content generation, and more. Once funded, we will begin work on that, providing backers license keys on completion and then offering Hero 6E Complete for sale in the Hero Games store (and possibly elsewhere). 
 
I am really excited to be doing this. I have long used MapTool as my primary VTT for Hero, and love it dearly. However, I think the fit and polish of Foundry is finally where it needs to be and I think Hero needs to be visible and successful on that platform. 
 
I have long been an advocate for Hero. My first attempt and bringing Hero to a broader audience as the publication of Narosia: Sea of Tears. Building on that, the Hero community needs a robust VTT that is easy to access, stable, and free of subscriptions. Lastly, with the completion of my NOVA6 Game (that is my next crowdfunding project now that it is ready), I've started work on Narosia 2nd Edition and my love letter to Post-Apocalyptic play: Atomic Sky. Atomic Sky is sandbox style PA adventuring with 240+ mutations, gear out the wazoo, and a QuickStart system to make characters and start playing in an hour.
 
Atomic Sky needs a slick VTT, so here we are. 
 
Feel free to ask any questions and I will do my best to answer. Keep an eye here for updates as we make more progress. 

I had "Alone Against the Flames" for ages as part of a Call of Cthulhu bundle.  Last week I finally played through it for the first time.  This is exactly the kind of product Hero System could use.  Get me into a story right away.  Guide me through the critical steps of building a character.  Give me options, tell me when to roll dice, and help me resolve the rolls.  Then and only then, once I've taken that first step, show me the depths of the rule system underlying what I just did.  Hero System has a strength like no other rule system I've ever encountered, but I can easily see how it can rapidly overwhelm many prospective players and drive them to other pastures.
 
When I was introduced to Hero System in the early-mid 1990s, I was fortunate enough to have GMs who held my hand (metaphorically speaking) until I understood the rules well enough to walk on my own.  I didn't have to digest a multi-course meal's worth of game mechanics before even beginning to tell a story.  I don't have that kind of patience anymore.

Once you spend a little intellectual investment time with Hero System, the learning is over. You have unlocked the formula. D&D has no formula, every spell has a different set of stats and then text, which has to be interpreted. Every spell, with constant added crunch. Same for Pathfinder 1E. There is so much memorizing, but my brain doesn't want to do that like it used to, so even though I contributed to several WotC 5E D&D products, I play Hero System 6E Fantasy with my regular group.

It should be noted that the 482 page Fantasy Hero 6e book is not the complete game; you'd need one of the core rulesets (6e1/6e2, Basic, Champions Complete, or Fantasy Hero Complete). 

You are too late Duke, I got there in 2015, scroll up!

Ooh!
 
Better!
 
He can turn the electronics into a dimensional breach device that imparts Extradimensional Movement onto the characters passing through, allowing them to move to the dimension where they already have the detection devices....
 
 

You guys are all under thinking this.
 
Try this:
 
Major Transform: from normal,but to guy who's location shows up on certain detection devices.
 
Then you gadgeteer can find a couole of old radios and a Mattel Electronic Football game, use Shapeshift: usuable as attack against these gadgets to turn them into appropriate detection devices.
 
 
I mean, it's so _obvious_.....