Arthur

Re: Strengths of HERO? Well, a lot of folks have given some really well-thought-out answers. I've just skimmed them. I have my own take on this. A lot of it, I'm sure, has already been pointed out, so this is from The Department of Redundancy Department. HERO doesn't really lend itself to a genre-by-genre breakdown as far as what it excels at, other than supers. It really shines there, and when you run supers, you can tell that's what it was originally designed for. It's probablyt better to think in terms of power levels. HERO is at its best in the range of comic-book superhero levels. Now, that covers quite a spread, so don't panic! It starts to show problems at the low end and at the high end. I wouldn't use it for a Joe Normals game (but who wants to play that?), nor for godlike power levels (once you get much past the "lifting skyscrapers" level it starts to show problems). Having said that, it handles quite well almost any fictional setting with characters of your typical roleplaying power levels. Really, who wants to play powerless dweebs? That's no fun. At the other extreme, Phenomenal Cosmic Powers gets boring. I learned the game about 20 years ago (oh FINODH I'm old!!). As best as I can recall, it SEEMED impossibly complex at first. However, it didn't take long at all before the basics of the system started sinking in. One or two play sessions is all it really took, IIRC. As others have pointed out, when you start up, ignore most or all of the optional rules! That will give you about the same situation I was in 20 years ago with 2nd Ed. Champions. Not familiar with those games. I'd say it does best at the low to medium powered superheroes. Something along the lines of Spider-man is just about dead on for what Hero emulates best. It has a hard time with characters like the Silver Age Superman. If anything, it works better at slightly lower than average comic-book than at slightly higher. That is, it does characters like Doc Savage and The Shadow better than, say, the Silver Surfer.

A few mistakes and issues here. 1. "Affects Physical" must be applied to your STR and attacks, NOT on the Desolidification itself. Therefore, Silver Age Superman (who can move Earth-size planets) must take the +2 Advantage on his STR of 400 (give or take a hundred). And on his heat vision. 2. "Not vs. Magic". IIRC, Desol has to define a reasonably common attack that will still affect him. Therefore, you define it as "Magic" with no cost break. I think. 3. What about attacks with the Affects Desolid Advantage? An attack that is designed to hurt a ghost can affect SAS. That seems a bit odd. 4. It's "kryptonite".

Because, for all its good points, with FRED they decided to throw out the notion of damage being computable by any relation to real-world physics and just pick numbers out of the air. IMO, this is the only real failing of FRED, and it could be bad. One of HERO's aspects that made it a superior game system was an internal logic. +1 DC means x2 linear damage. A logarithmic scale. It's reflected in the STR lifting chart, and used to be followed quite closely with firearms (I did a lot of research on this about ten years ago, and the +1 DC = x2 KE for guns was adhered to). I get the distinct impression that George MacDonald and his cohorts had a solid grounding in math and physics. They appear to have set out to create a game with an underlying consistent mathematical model. Logarithmic was undoubtedly chosen to cope with the vast power spreads in comic-book stories without huge numbers being necessary (GURPS has the opposite problem: it's a linear system, and large weapons do hundreds or thousands of dice). It seems that DOJ is only somewhat interested in maintaining the integrity of the mathematical model; they seem to be pushing the system more toward the ad hoc "make 'em up" paradigm.

Testify! That is one of my complaints about FRED. What were they thinking? I would've gone with 5 points each, tops. I think "Immune to Disease" used to be either 3 or 5 points - I had a House Rule about "Immune to Poison" being 5 points, bringing Total LS up to 35 points. It's "too expensive", not "to expensive". Do they not teach that anymore? Few people under 40 get that right (or how to use an apostrophe).

Actually, what you have described (correctly), is that a suit will give you immunity to certain disease VECTORS. It would not be bought with any LS vs. Disease at all: that is a function of a character's internal makeup, typically. However, any airborne or skin-contact vector will bounce off the suit. If not, then that disease vector is improperly defined in game terms.

Others have already said as much, so this is a memo from: The Department of Redundancy Department: If a spacesuit in game terms does not protect against nerve gas in game terms, then either the space suit or the nerve gas has been defined incorrectly and one or the other needs to be rewritten.

Probably more technically a form of FTL. Current transmission speed is not instantaneous: it is a large percentage of c, however. IIRC, it is on the close order of 100,000 km/sec, subject to things like resistance and voltage and such. At the time scale of the game, even if you can be transmitted via microwave to satellite, there is still at most a quarter-second delay. Therefore, it is usually a moot point. However, if you were to try to get to the Moon that way, you're looking at an extra Segment; if you have a Mars comlink at c, it's about seven minutes or more. Rarely if ever going to be an issue, but I had to be a physics geek.

This looks pretty good. I think it SHOULD be extremely expensive. It is a fearsome attack that is difficult to defend against (I rated "can be resisted by another telekinetic" as a -1/4: it won't come up often, but when it does it is nullified completely). I also added RSR and Concentration. However, Continuous is not necessarily in concept. It could very well be an attack that you perform separately each time. I didn't want to necessarily mimic the GURPS construct EXACTLY - it has serious game balance problems I'd just as soon leave out. However, it is certainly an option. 0 END is also optional - it just depends on how mental powers work in your view. Are they tiring? Who knows? No way to reality-check it. That is definitely NOT in concept at all, even in GURPS. The SE is that you have to visualize and concentrate on what you are damaging. It requires mental focus on one attack. I don't see any rules anywhere that allow such an approach. That's what I thought. Now that it's been mentioned, Indirect still might be better - the effect is psionic at its source, but it is physical damage at the target. An RSR based on EGO or a Psionics Skill would be enough to establish its "mental-ness". Good ideas from everyone! Thanks!

Yeah. Good point. Pointing out that this is really BOECV and not an NND or an AVLD would be excessively nitpicky, even for me. Have you noticed that we have enough acronyms around here to start a Federal Agency?

Hee hee. Just what I was thinking. So a player wants to be really good with KS's? OH NO!!! RULES RAPE!! YOU MUNCHKIN!!! Yeah. Right. Sheesh. If you wanted to buy some 3-pointers defined as "+1 with all Knowledge Skills" I'd be patting you on the back for being a non-powergamer roleplayer, not telling you it's technically against the rules. This also makes me think of Rocky and Bullwinkle: "And now it's time for Mr. Know-It-All!"

Re: Re: Objects of Opprtunity and Damage Right, but a bit incomplete. Assuming 12 BODY is rolled: The truck in the first example is reduced to DEF 3 / 11 BODY, while the truck in the second example (obviously a Kia) is destroyed. The object being used takes the same damage, but cannot deliver damage beyond the point of its own destruction. No matter how strong YOU are, you can only do so much with a (relatively) flimsy object.

Makes sense, but I've always been uncomfortable assigning game effects by special effect like this. You have two characters, each with Armor 7/7. One has it bought as "Steel Body", the other as "Kevlar bodysuit". Same points, same Power, yet one is immune. This does lead to other questions, though: Would not a "brick" type character get some defense against this just from sheer robustness? This is getting more complex (how unusual... )

Oh. Duh. AVLD is too expensive anyway. Do I also need IPE after buying BOECV? I want it to be visible only to Mental Awareness. My FRED is packed away right now. I didn't want it to be quite as fearsome as it is in GURPS. As it stands there, it is really mostly for horrific unstoppable psychic foes. Also, GURPS doesn't have the range of defenses HERO has: Mental Defense seemed a natural. I can't imagine a psionic telekinetic being able to pull this off on Professor X, for instance. However, there is no way to reality check it, so it's just a matter of opinion. As long as there IS a defense that is reasonably common...

GURPS has an optional rule for telekinetics whereby they can reach inside a living target and damage internal organs (or rip wires in robots, etc). This is a cool, very in-genre for psionics, but VERY potent effect. Here is my take on it for HERO: 1d RKA. BOECV: +1 AVLD: +1 1/2 (vs. Mental Defense). Does BODY: +1 IPE: All but Mental Group: +1/2. RSR: INT Roll at -4 or Physiology (or Paramedics or similiar): -1/2 (to visualize the inside of the target). Concentrate (half DCV): -1/4. Can be resisted by another telekinetic (STR 10 will nullify): -1/4. Total Active Cost: 75 Real Cost: 37 Whaddya think? Anybody? Bueller?

When I first read the title of the thread, I thought you wanted to INCREASE the Disad point total to 200 or something. My reaction was "Huh? I have a hard time coming up with 150! If anything, you should go the OTHER way and have LESS Disad points!" Obviously, that was what you meant, and I think it is a great idea. 150 points in Disads tends to lead toward taking Disads just for the points, not because it is really in character. Come on - we've all done it: "Let's see - either another Hunted or I have to lose the Omnigun...." I'd go to 100 + 100 tops for my trademark "realistic supers" style, and 250 + 100 for a more standard Champions game.

Hmmm. I sort of missed the chance to jump in on the House Rules thread (just got my home internet connection back). This is very interesting. Basically, you're asking "Which of your House Rules are strong enough to be better for pretty much everybody?" Damage Shield: I'd go back to the pre-FRED version. The straight +1/2 seemed to do a great job of containing all the advantages and disadvantages of this construct. Autofire: I'd add the to-hit bonus back. IRL, the main use of machine-gun fire is to greatly increase the chance of hitting with at least one shot. Skill Defaults: I'd lift from GURPS the notion of Skill Defaults. Someone with an DEX of 33 should have a better shot at being sneaky (for instance) than someone with a DEX of 8, even without training. For most skills: 0 points: 5 + CHA/5 1 point: 7 + CHA/5 2 points: 8 + CHA/5 3 points: 9 + CHA/5 Healing and Regen: I'd clarify that the default "reset time" for healing is one day, and you could bump that up one step on the Time Chart for a +1/4 Advantage. This would most definitely apply to Regeneration (increasing its cost - which is fine by me, it's MORE valuable now in most campaigns than it used to be. Original Champions was mostly concerned with simulating Silver and Bronze Age comics. The more recent styles are a lot more bloody and Regen is a lot more valuable). I might also add in a "BODY Only" Limitation onto Regeneration (unless it DOES Regen STUN) for -3/4. Multipowers: If a slot has its own Charges, halve the number of Charges. This is a rule from Champions III that I was very surprised to see absent from FRED. I'd also go back to following the "+1 DC equals x2 KE" interpretation for firearms and such (and also use it for explosives). That gives us an underlying framework on which to base conversions from real-world weapons or other game systems.

I know exactly what you mean. I did crossover stuff with Fantasy Hero and Champions characters before. The Heroic 150 pointers were closer to the Superheroic 250-pointers than it seemed at first - because the Heroic PCs didn't have to pay points for items - usually. I wanted to balance them against each other. I ran into a similar problem when I wanted to play a character in a Champions game who could use mundane items as though in a Heroic game. I wanted to be able to buy Weapon Familiarities and such and then use things like ordinary guns. I realize that could be done with a Gadget Pool or similar, but that seemed so kludgy. Anyway, I solved this long ago by lifting the idea of Unusual Background from GURPS. In Hero, it's best represented by: PERK: May use mundane weapons and items as though in a Heroic Campaign. 25 points. In a Heroic game, that can be rephrased as "May buy Super Powers as though in a Superheroic campaign". Same cost. As usual, the exact cost is subject to debate. I keep waffling between as low as 20 points and as high as 50.

Duh. Make that 3 BODY and 3 STUN. Duh again.

I don't think that's possible. The rule is that an attack does at least one STUN for each BODY point that gets through. For example, if your defenses are 21/7, and you are hit with a KA that does 10 BODY and 20 STUN, you take 2 BODY and 2 STUN, not zero STUN. Unless FRED changed the rule from BBB, which I doubt. I do concur that the 1d-1 STUN Lottery is Not Good. I use Hit Locations, though, so a x5 is much rarer. I don't remember if it is an official rule or one I lifted from GURPS, but I split Head location into Brain and Head. You hit the Brain location only on a 3, the skull gets you an additional +2 DEF, and then you take the x2 BODY and x5 STUN from there. Locations 4-5 are "Face" which I rated at something like x1.5 BODY and x4 STUN, IIRC (don't have my rules handy).

I like it. If you are running, it should be bought with Running, if possible. It is more - elegant. The Flight method is almost like buying a Force Field with Armor that Costs END. It is technically correct, but clunky.

Oh. Well, then I would just reduce the +2 Advantage to +1 or so, since it's "a set of Characterstics in serial" rather than "....in parallel". It seems unHerolike to increase the Advantage to a certain level then use a Lim to reduce the effect back in about the same way. Just use a lower Advantage. Fewer AP.

I concur that keeping COM is the default for Regen. If it doesn't, then you have the Billy Ray effect, where facial features get more and more irregular with repeated healings. Sounds like a -1/4 Lim on the Regen (reduces effective COM) as someone else pointed out.

2d Drain, AoE Radius, Personal Immunity, Group of related stats simultaneously (+2) [sTR, CON, BODY, END, STUN]. Sound about right?

If you want to match up with the way guns work (or used to under 4E), each +1 DC represents a doubling of kinetic energy. Kinetic energy is proportional to the square of the velocity. Using the previously given figure of 75 MPH for a typical fastball, 1400^2 / 75^2 = 358. So this super-fastball has roughly 360 times the KE of a regular one. That works out to +8 to +9 DC. Since there is so much wiggle room here, I'd just call it 12d N. Sounds about right. And it had better be one tough baseball to avoid being destroyed on impact. It would also heat up a lot from air friction. Never calculated the melting point of a baseball before....

Hmmm. I believe the +2 Advantage is meant to affect all Powers "of a given Special Effect". That would mean all magic, or all mutant powers. What you have defined seems broader than the intent of the +2 Advantage. I know it seems expensive already, but you have defined a VERY powerful effect! I would probably have you add "Variable Special Effect" onto it. Don't have FRED handy - it might call for double the usual Advantage due to nonstandard application here.