GDShore

I can understand how most of the original post can be jarring but in any world where magic is plentiful the practitioners, particularly those not so good ones will seek to produce things they can sell to make a living. This in turn will inspire better mages to make new or better products to have a better living and so on. They may not call it the "germ theory of disease" but any healer mage of any notable ability  will study disease and one will eventually make the connection and pass it along. 

     What pops my button is slang and puns, bad puns. 

Yes in a world filled with magic such amulets and healings are possible but they will cost, and the peasant/serf has nothing, owns nothing and his horizons are limited. He is one step up from the slave, and in some cultures treated worse. Knowledge and its use is expensive, and to the peasant/serf a single copper would be a fortune and medicine or medical help is always costly. 

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3 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

I brought subject up earlier in the post when I mentioned wizards might be able to purchase magic items the same way warriors purchase weapons and armor.  I was talking more about magic wands and defensive items, but there is no reason it has to be limited to those.

 

I agree with this , in my present campaign magic is wide spread and a great variety of items can be acquired quite easily. But you would still have to have something with which to purchase or barter for them. Everything they have and use is owned by the noble they are tied to, so no magic amulets for him although the middle class will be indulging in them.

We have approached this topic before. The strength of Medieval denizens versus those of the mighty 20th. century. The peasant/serf may have been stronger than the average 20th denizen however his poorer diet and greater susceptibility to disease lessen's the peasant/serf ability to reach and maintain a peak str. maximum. (check out some of the archeology on middle age gravesites, you will find that almost without exception a greater predilection towards arthritis and other osteo conditions) At any rate I have yet to encounter a player who willingly chose to be a peasant/serf, the nobility however probably were on average much fitter and stronger than we are today. AS for the magic types, if you are spending 8 - 10 - 12 hours a day studying or researching spells you will not have the time or energy to also stay fit and study the martial arts. Some exercise would be required, you need a good constitution strength not so much. Anecdote == Richard the Lionheart is supposed to have, in the middle of a battle, split a man a twain, from his shoulder through his body  and spine and out his hip, with a single blow from his sword while mounted. Now assuming that King Richard was 6 foot plus in height, mounted on a knights horse 16-17 hands to 20-22 hands at the shoulder [a hand is 4 inches] the victim had to be also mounted {if the victim had been afoot Richard would "only have cut the shoulder off"} this would be a prodigious feat of strength (a number of other Medieval kings are attributed similar feats, Charlemagne for one, and while not a king El Cid as well). I know how much work achieving and then maintaining a high skill level in any martial art (when I was younger, like fifty years younger I could clean and jerk a 100 kg. , a lot of people can do that, at the time I weighed in at 46 kg. soaking wet.). I used to be a fencer and archer, a better than average fencer, and a champion level archer, I exercised two hours a day, shot the bow twice a week for four hours a session, and fenced once a week for five to six hours. I could not have maintained that and studied anything for ten to twelve hours a day. A better man than I am might have, but not me. {I have a problem with the range modification in the rules -- It is out to lunch bigtime.

Hey, L Ron Hubbard wasn't a second rate SF writer, at best he was a third or fourth rater.

I agree with Christopher, I am a traditionalist regarding Wizards and Mages. Additionally I added an inability for magic and iron to peacefully co-exist if you carry iron spells can and will short-circuit. The more iron the greater the problem (i have tables that our group developed over a two year period that are quite extensive and in some cases very subtle). this did not mean that a magic caster could not carry weapons just that the could not be made of iron. This lead to a intense study of Medieval weapons and later fighter styles. Projectile weapons became the primary weapon of choice (it fit the standoff nature of magic). Bows of every description began to make their appearance, then crossbows and slurbows (the later in some very unique formats) then slings & staff slings throwing knives, shurikens and such like and finally bolo's. They also brought in bronze melee weapons, later magically reinforced likewise armor. By the time the group broke up in the early 90's we had quite the array of non-ferrous tools and other equipage.

Yeah, I love the cord too. It was the first car model I ever made, it won't comfortably seat 5 if they are big boys. Besides the Duse just screams money.

FH third ed. had magic Items, scar sword - IIRC - you had to rub and invoke the spell and you had a magic sword. My original group ran with the idea, not only the sword, but a shield too. One of them went all the way to a scar suit of armor, the scar on the chest. 

Magic Items was/is a book detailing magic items and rules for making same.

Maybe so, but this is FH, take the concept and build it "Hero style" not a copy, it can be better than the origional.

I do not understand the "controversy" when we started Champions we just assumed story was a major element. We thought that we effectively were doing a TV series in which events that occurred in episode one might come back somehow in episode six or seven or whenever. Narrative was always important, it gave purpose to what was happening.

Okay, I haven't done D&D since late '79. But "Hero's" is not D&D" . I do not copy D&D I try to create NEW. I do not use D&D monsters or concepts. When we left D&D we turned to E.P.T. and C&S, (until FH arrived) I still occasionally do C&S.  I don't use psionics just never did. Thus if I were to create such one of the things I would consider is, persistence. If not persistent then it would not look like the real thing. The question on armor was, if weapon - also armor. [extrapolating further] Maybe D&D does'nt  use material components, Hero's magic for the most part does. If not persistent, then it is energy, energy that has to be maintained or else it dissipates. All of that is world building. Whenever you intrduce a new concept or item to a game it affects it's world build. {you have a campaign set in a medieval world, with a feudal society, the introduction of an AK47 will have serious consequence} It needs to fit whatever ruleset you have determined for your world build. 

Okay, I have a couple of philosophiical questions about the use of the mindblade. If only your "nobles" have the right blood line to cast/use ability how long does the weapon exist? ...

Can the noble thus equip an entire army of commoners with weapons? ... Can he/she also create armor? ... Where are the elements that make up the weapon come from? ... Are they being stripped from somewhere upon the world, universe, or drawn from another universe? ... Are your nobles actually minor godlings?... Does the creation use differing amounts of psychic  energy? For instance does creating a dagger use less energy than a broadsword?... Does the creator then use psychic energy to maintain the weapon?... As a plot device for a story or a single campaign this is not a problem, as part of a world build it carries major ramifications. 

Thank you Scott, I did not know that sir.

There is another sword in man's historical basket, that can be used. The Gladius, the weapon of the roman legionnaire. With a length of 60 cm. to 85 cm. overall, blade length of 22-25 cm. to a max of 55-60 cm. and a mass of .7 to 1 kg. with a width of 5 cm. to 7 cm. A versatile short sword, short enough to sit easily on the hip or ride in an over the shoulder sheath, can stab/thrust, hack/chop and block deflect. Its mass is less than either the machete or cutlass and better balanced as well. I've used all three, the cutlass has a slower return, the machete unwieldly on the thrust (works best on slash/chop). The versatility of the Gladius is why it changed very little over its 500 year (approximate) use. The British army considered issuing the Gladius in WW1 but chose instead an improved bayonet. 

Sorry Ninja-Bear, I agree with the Duke. 

Further on my Necromancers, I broadly divide magic into two major classes, "Death vs Life Magic". I still use comeliness in my campaign, and as a set of disadvantages for using "Death" magic you lose comeliness, constitution, and strength (with consequence's to the figured characteristics). Up to 100 cp active cost of spell, .5 loss of characteristic in each of the aforementioned characteristics, above 100 cp 1 full point. Losses are imposed at the end of each session, yes I keep track. (right now only on NPC's da bad guys none of my players have chosen to be Death Mages) Other disadvantages, hunted by the life church's large very active, hunted by the Academy of Magic likewise, hunted by the various polities within my campaign. Distinctive looks, usually in the not concealable plus causes fear, disgust ect. (the comeliness is not repairable or replaceable)

It is an interesting concept. Another way to handle the disarm issue is to use charges, the psionic summoner can only summon a weapon "x" number of times in "y" amount of time. As for the different weapons to be summoned, use a "variable power pool", each slot is a different weapon. After the disarm there should be a time limit to it's existence, for instance if you summon a bow and arrows, the arrows have to exist long enough to reach, impact and damage the target. (ooooh what a unique murder weapon, no evidence of the weapon left behind , because after a time the arrow disappears into thin air)

'And no need to kaiju much the "Moose", there are more than one story of male moose "killing" tractor trailer's and at least one where a diesel train was destroyed during the rut.

Unfortunately, Mr. Ruggels you are so right. I have seen and done many things in my seventy years, I have come face to face with real evil and I am not to proud to admit I soiled myself. Yet though I can say I faced real evil, I do not know if it was inherent or developed. I still do not know if he was a bad seed or if the decisions and events of his life made him that way. Still in all of that, I have not met anyone that was evil because of the race they were born into. The Hamas are evil to the core, I do not think that many would dispute that, unless they had an axe of their own to grind. Their membership is recruited from those with a sense of being "done unto" then groomed into evil. I do not blame the Palestinians for the actions of the Hamas, But do hold the accountable for not ridding their lands of Hamas and it's influence.  All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Yes the dark ages has a reputation for savagery but rarely was slaughter of innocents a part of the zeitgiest. Yet well into the renaissance during the 30 years war, a level of pure savage barbarity (that would not be surpassed until WW II and the Nazis) would be achieved, at Magdeburg in north central Germany. Johann Tserclaes Count of Tilly senior general of the Holy Roman Empire laid siege to the protestant (Lutheran) city. Tilly established the siege then went campaigning elsewhere leaving Graz von Pappenheim in command returning a month later with a replenished army. Pappenheim convinced Tilly to assault the city and they did so in two parts, first taking the Toll redout which exposed a portion on Magdeburgs city wall to a point blank bombardment. Tilly demanded the surrender of the city, the mayor refused believing a Swedish army was enroute. (they were but did not arrive in time) Tilly placed the assault under the command of von Pappenheim and once the army of 40,000 was thru the walls was set loose upon the city of Magdeburg. In the next 6 hours 20,000 civilians and the 8,000 garrison would be slaughtered. Towards the end of the sack, one of the last pockets of civilians was trapped at the central marketplace. Tilly was present, a large group of children (there fathers already perished trying to keep Tillys army out of the square) (estimate between 500 and 1000) marched across the square hands raised singing a Lutheran hymn and were killed to the last one, then followed the slaughter of their mothers and younger siblings. Apologists for Tilly have said that Pappenheim lost control of the army,, but Tilly sent a letter to the Emperor, I paraphrase a portion of -- Emperor you and the ladies of your court should have been here to witness the battle it was glorious. 

      You see savagery is not confined to any one period of mans history, when you vilify and make less than human your foe it becomes very easy to do any thing you may imagine unto them and justify it. 

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2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

the realm of Perrenland appears to be entirely freeholders, divided into clans whose leaders elect a Voortman as the chief executive of the country.

 

Yes, such a land though would be a less likely target for an empire building Vampire preciously because it is free. Freeman travel, mix with their neighbours hold markets and fairs (the purpose to allow their children to be exposed to more potential spouses). A Vampire attack on the village next would arouse all the villages in the region to the Vampires detriment. Not so in a land populated by serfs.

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2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

but as I mentioned earlier in reference to the Greyhawk world, trained and armed militias seem to be common. Implicitly, freeholders make up a significantly larger part of the population than in most of medieval Europe.

 

When I stopped playing D&D this had not happened, there had been no expansion on the bare map of Greyhawk. At the time that Champions 1e. came on the scene a friend and I were trying to build our own gaming system with occasional kibutz's from Wilf Backus, (Chivalry & Sorcery) Coincidently our working title was Advanced D & D. [advanced Dale and Doug] Historically many militia's were better trained and equipped than the armies around them, a lot of the "Free Cities" survived because of that fact and later fell or were absorbed because they let their defense lapse.

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3 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

But would you consider magic to have much of the same bonuses in a society as technology. Personally, I think that it would.

AS would I. Also the amount and power of magic would, as well be a major factor. The problem though would be the repressive feudal culture, again using Russia as example, they had the ability and the coin to make improvements to the infrastructure and chose not to.

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3 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

And of course magic may allow that lord to be able to get troops to different places quickly rather than taking weeks/months of travel time.

As late as WW II the road network in what was then the Soviet, was virtually non-existent. If the "Lord" does have good communications, but has not improved his major infrastructure he will find it hard to move troops on mass and moving in small units invite defeat in detail.

 

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22 hours ago, Cloppy Clip said:

Are you open to making any tweaks to the standard Greyhawk setting, Doc? GDShore's mention of city guard got me thinking about how, even though it's a standard fantasy trope by this point, it might get across the danger of the setting more if there weren't options for the villagers to turn to when something's afoot. From what I remember, medieval settlements relied on someone raising the hue and cry, after which everyone who heard it was expecting to chase after and capture the accused criminal. Failure to do so meant a fine for the settlement, but otherwise there was no official police force.

 

In most feudal societies the aristocracy will deny the peasantry the right to own or bear arms whether European or Asian. (this is the basis of the American's second amendment) Virtually no training with arms was allowed the peasant or serf who vastly outnumbered their overlords, England was one of the exceptions requiring that the Yeomanry practice once a week with the bow. {England did not have the huge numbers of serf's that most of Europe did it had a much larger by % of free yeomanry} If a Vampire plague had struck in the Russia's where the peasantry were mostly serf's (+90%) it could be weeks maybe months before the authorities would even get a hint of something gone wrong, let alone acted upon. By the time a society of a feudal nature population dominated by serf's got an army on the march towards the infestation it might well be to large to deal with. I've been thinking on this, now, that the more backward a society was technologically and socially was the more vulnerable to such an infestation. A major campaign is waiting there for a band of intrepid adventurers to discover and then oppose such infestation in its infancy.

I have a couple of questions about the vampire. 1 - How often must they feed?  2 - What is required to create a "new" vampire? one bite? multiple bites? draining? blood sharing? What actually kills the vampire? I have either read or seen on film all of the above, How fast can an infestation of "vampire" spread? Is it arithmetic, geometric, or exponential? All of those questions have to be answered before one can determine how fast a city can be taken down. The larger the city the longer it might take, however people go missing in big cities all the time and no one notices. How many fighters could a "Medieval" city actually field? The imbalance of fighter to serf could be enormous, easily 1 to 5 or 8 or 20. (fighter to serf) How many in the city guard, how well trained, how well equipped, ??? I would hazard that the city guard stands at 1 per hundreds of citizens.  (the NYC police department is approximately 35000 the city population is + 8000000) Finally how do you kill a vampire? Does it require special weapons, protective gear, training? 

In that we agree, in a world with magic, the diseases of infancy/childhood could be eliminated, as well, as well as the diseases of old age. (arthritis, failing eyesight ect) The use of magic in the common daily life of a world is unlimited or at least is only limited by the number and talents of the practitioner. (unless of course magic is vastly limited within the world)

Gauntlet, I did not say that magic healing was not a factor in population growth just that it would not be the determinate. As LL said magic could be assumed (yes I know what assume means to you and me) As he also pointed out as child mortality goes down so to does birthrate. [anecdote I am 70 plus oldest of a family of 9 siblings, my uncles and aunts fathers side all had either 7 or 8 offspring, mom's side her 2 brothers had 4 and 6, my sibs and cousins at most only had 2 - 3 over half only 1, and 5 none at all] The 50's saw introduction of vaccines for "polio, measles, mumps and other childhood killers". {so magical healing} A couple of my uncles had children lost to polio, so yah magical healing.