RDU Neil

Sounds fun... and familiar. Back in the day, in my long running campaign, one of the spin-off campaigns (run by long term player and artist Storn Cook) did something similar. It jumped ahead a decade or so, using the Millennium City concept as an "alternative future" to the main campaign. We played supers trying to re-establish a tradition that had been gutted by the events that destroyed New York (not Detroit in this case) and most supers, etc. Lots of cyberpunk, mecha, corporate rule, concepts, with metas trying to re-establish the idea of "hero's who were descendents of characters in our main game.

Good times... so good luck with your game. And kid gloves aren't as necessary as truth... let players know that initial threats and challenges are simple and they are expected to win... and let the players know when the stakes increase and the chance for failure is real. Metagaming is not a bad thing. There are specific times when I say, "Ok... all die rolls are in the open, and if they go against you... them's the breaks. It is bad-things-happen time!" and everyone is good to go.

Well, there's this thread I started in the Looking For Player section that has a bit of background info.
 
Essentially, I want to take Millennium City as it's currently written (circa 2003-ish) and darken it way up so that it's a cyberpunk-lite dystopian city in 2018.  I say lite because I don't want the emphasis to be on hacking and technology as much as a pure cyberpunk game would normally be but I still want the crime, gangs, and mega-corps though...that's just good fun
 
I think it'll be fun, in my head it's basically mashing Batman Begins and Blade Runner together or I suppose Batman Beyond would be an analogous setting just not as far into the future.
 
I have a couple of brand new players at the table so I'm just hoping I don't screw it up for them.  I know I'll need to be in teaching mode for the first little while so the kid gloves will need to be on but I fully expect to bloody them up once we get going.
 

I thought it finished strong. Looking forward to season 2. I think it's the CW show that best exemplifies the genre, with the runner up being Legends of Tomorrow after season 1 (which was a turd). Agree with RDU Neil on Thunder's Brick Tricks multipower, complete with limitation. Makes me wonder if one of the writing staff plays Hero. ?

How did you come up with your 'handle' (forum name)? it was the name of a Champions: New Millennium character that I made What was the first tabletop RPG you played? Darksword Adventures, a relatively obscure RPG by Margaret Weis  (Author), Tracy Hickman (Author) What was the first tabletop RPG you GMed? 2nd Edition AD&D What are you currently playing/GMing? starting a new street level Champions game this weekend When did you start to play Hero? it was the 90s, BBB, leather pants, angsty music...a different time

Really, really, REALLY appreciate your thoughts on this. Great replies all along, and much of it matches what I've been thinking. 
 
The pic of the ATF guys was very helpful. The PCs in my scenario were "best-of-the-best" US Marshall assault unit, fully equipped with the best load-out armor and weapons to take a house full of bad guys down. (This game is also a bit of X-Files/weird science, so assuming these guys had the very best, fitted Type II-A Spectra, with ceramic plates, etc. I overdid it on having extremeties armored, etc. This mattered, because one shot from a standard 9mm was stopped by 4rpd shin guards, which may or may not be realistic, and at least two major hits to the "9" shoulder, I'm not sure if armor covers that as well, but gave it to them.)  Still, that pic shows no forearm armor, no leg armor, etc.  We do play Hit Locations and definitely use them as written, which can lead to some very high Stun rolls, as Stomach and Vital shots (12 and 13) come up a LOT on 3d6. I consider the 3-5 to be 3 = Face, 4 = noggin, 5 = throat... so those can be armored separately. (I love Hero for its hit location/damage resolution because of the ability to get really cool descriptions out of it (type of weapon, amount of damage, where it hit, etc.)  Best moment in this particular scenario. The big bad was a psycho special, better with knives than guns. He'd emptied his pistol, and pulled his wicked, nasty combat knife and leapt on a PC, stabbing him and hitting in the 5. I have a house rule "luck chits" that PCs have, and they can spend them for various defensive actions... in this case, the PC spent it to move the hit location one spot... 5 to 6... basically he threw his hand up at the last second.  Hand was unarmored, and full strength psycho knife attack was 2.5d6K... rolled 10 body. Basically ruled the blade stabbed right through his palm, and then tore the blade upward, basically slicing his hand in two (5 body, 20 Stun with +1 stun multiple... PC collapsed screaming, hand ruined and nearly severed, bleeding rules kicked in... he spent several rounds groping the dark for a roll of duct tape to hold the pieces of his hand together as his partners continued the fight... gruesome but very cool scene.) Just glancing at 5th Ed Dark Champs, your gun write-ups are generally 1 DC lower than what is in the books. Plus, the books give +1 Stun Multiplier to many handguns in the Magnun and .45 and up range. That, coupled with Hit Locations, makes for a lot of Con Stunned, nearly out cold hits, so I'm wondering if removing the increased Stun Multiplier is a good idea, as you stated. Your description of a 7.62 round above, were the stats I used for a .357 with frangible rounds (the big bad in the house)... so basically 2d6+1 damage was completely soaked with above average rolls by this armor. That was where I was kinda head-scratching, as those are the same damage as a rifle, but this armor shouldn't be proof against rifle rounds... should it? The difference in velocity is tremendous between pistols and rifles and thus penetration is greatly increased. Does this mean we should consider rifles as "light AP" which I interpret as "AP vs. soft armor and non-armor defenses (things like walls, car doors, etc.) but not vs. anything that would be considered "hard armor" (which is not "hardened" as per the rules, but just of a substance that is harder/denser than lead bullets).  Then there is actual "Hardened" armor, which would be like ceramic plates and vehicle armor, etc., that is designed to specifically stop high velocity, steel core, penetrating rounds, etc.  Again, it just starts to get really "crunchy" and often requires split second judgement, based on roll, hit, which I'm fine with... really good at, actually... but I want to have some general guidelines in place so players don't feel like I'm just making stuff up every time.) I do have a Blow Through house rule. If the attack hits a non-armored object with defense (like an home interior wall, or car door), and the attack is a logically penetrating kind of attack (bullet vs. a baseball bat), then I look at the amount of damage done, and if it doubles the defense it bypasses the defense, and if then it would do more than the Body, it passes through with full velocity. If an unarmored object is hit with a penetrating attack and does more than the full body, it continues on.  Example: Interior wall, 3 def/4 body... a 6 damage pistol shot will pass right through it, unhindered, but a 5 damage shot or less would get stopped. Also, the wall is still standing, just with a little hole in it.  (Breaking things in Hero is kinda wonky, in that the default is "beat defense and body you've created a human size hole in the object" which makes no sense with guns and knives and even sledge hammers against walls, car doors, etc.) Anyway... this general guideline is cool, and works well in some house to house fights we've had where automatic weapons are punching through walls and cubicles and those things don't provide defense, and it is lots of fun. I even rule that guns vs. a human body... if the single shot does 1 more body than the person had (11 Body vs. unarmored 10 body person) then it does full damage to the target AND what it hits next. Had a great moment in a raging gunfight on a large cargo ship, where a PC with a 7.62x51 assault rifle got the drop on two Tong soldiers running past him on a narrow walkway. He came out behind them and fired twice. One round rolled 12 Body, punching through one guys chest and blowing a hole in the guy in front of him as well. Again, cool scene created by the combination of scene, PC action, weapons, hit location, body damage done, etc.,   
Anyway... this is all great stuff you've put out here, so it helps me adjust what level of normal vs. cutting edge amazing... body armor should be. I think in most cases, body armor just doesn't cover as many hit locations. (like only the heaviest most complete stuff covers 9 shoulder... mostly it is 10-12, with 13 only if added pieces... 9 only if added pieces, etc.) 
 
Fun stuff, and thanks, seriously, for your time on all this.

Nowhere in the movie does it state how long their trip took. That it only seems like it took one night has more to do with editing than story.

I can't really comment on these two too much. As far as reliability goes, I'd think armor in good condition is going to be reliable, regardless of the angle of approach. However, improperly stored armor can go bad, and armor that has already taken hits should be replaced, but over the course of taking hits in a prolonged fight could conceivably be weakened.   
 
As far as blow-through goes, Hero just doesn't seem to model this outside of just having either armor piercing or flat out higher DCs. I think this one gets down to how you construct your guns and armor, and that it's a good idea to think about how the two interact if you're building from scratch. IIRC, Steve's write ups in 4th edition Dark Champions for weapons and armor seemed pretty decent and well-researched. I don't remember looking at the numbers on those and having any strong disagreement at the time.
 
Here's how I'd tend to break down firearms into broad categories, as a starting point:
 
Moderately strong airgun or .22 short: These can kill you, but they're highly unlikely to. 1 pip RKA (1 DC).
Mouse Guns: Things like .25 ACP, .22 LR, .32 ACP, 9mm Makarov, and .380 ACP. I'd say maybe 1/2d6 RKA (2 DC) .
Service Caliber Pistols: Things like .38 spl, .45 acp, 9mm, .40 S&W, etc. These I'd lump into the 1d6 RKA (3 DC) to 1d6 + 1 RKA (4 DC) range, depending on the actual weapon used.
Magnum Revolver Loads: Things like .357 mag, 10 mm, .44 mag, etc. from a pistol. These I'd go 1.5d6 RKA (5 DC).
 
Up to this point, it's just vanilla damage. All of the above do their damage by simply poking a hole through the target, with the main determinant of the damage done being what the hole ended up being in. I would not give magnum handgun rounds an extra stun multiplier. The lighter end of the scale lack penetration, while service caliber and up have adequate penetration, which is really the main determinant of their damage class. I think at this level, damage class is best used to represent penetration because no handgun rounds in this range are powerful enough to merit AP, Penetrating, or extra Stun multipliers, IMO.
 
Moving up the chart, I'd go with pistol caliber carbines. For those in the service caliber range, I'd leave the DCs alone. For carbines in the magnum range, I'd go up one damage class.
 
For rifles, I'd  start giving out a +1 Stun multiplier.  I'd probably leave AP as an ammo property. I'd probably break them down into Light, Medium, Heavy, Elephant, and Anti-Vehicle. I'd treat oddball very light loads like .22 Hornets like service caliber revolver loads. So:
 
Light: 5.56 NATO, 7.62x39, etc. Probably about 2d6 RKA, with a +1 Stun multiplier.
Medium: 7.62x51, 30-30, most non-magnum Deer rifles, etc.: About 2d6+1 to 2.5d6 RKA with a +1 Stun multiplier.
Heavy: Belted magnums, like .300 Win Mag, 7mm Remington magnum, etc. About 3d6 to 3d6+1 RKA with +1 Stun multiple to +2 stun multiple for the heavier end of the spectrum.
Elephant: Big bore, slow moving rounds. 3.5d6, +2 Stun multiplier.
Anti-Vehicle: .50 BMG, etc. I'd build the AP right in to these. 3.5D6, +2 Stun multiplier, AP. 
 
That's just spitballing. What I'd actually do is probably go with most of the book write ups, and tweak things I disagree with, like extra stun multipliers on magnum handgun loads.
 

OK, busting out the book again . . . let's see:
 
Soft Kevlar on 9 through 14: That's shoulders, chest, stomach, vitals, thighs.
Ceramic Plates on 10 and 11: That's the chest.
Helmet on 4: That's the noggin.
Some arm and shin guards on the arms and legs.
 
My first reaction is [Takei]"Oh my!"[/Takei] that's a lot of armor.
 
Here's how I'd break down armor. Not considering concealed vests, just the plate carrier stuff:
 
Basic plate carrier vest. These seem to be constructed of soft armor, with pockets to insert trauma plates. That's the base, and covers the front and back of the torso. So, that's 10 to 12 hit locations. If you add in the large sized trauma plates, the coverage is about the same. The sides of the torso get decent coverage, but the armpit holes, and lowermost abdomen (vitals on the hit chart) are vulnerable spots. (Just to be pedantic: Of course the heads, arms, etc. are vulnerable. Just noting the vest doesn't extend far down into the vitals area and the armpit hole here.) Many vests/plate carriers also have high collars, providing some protection to the neck.
 
Looking at real cops, most of them seem to have one of these, either worn or carried in their vehicle around my area. It probably depends on department, etc.
 
Looking online at SRT and entry teams, including ATF, the heaviest-armored guys I'm seeing are wearing upper arm protection to protect the armpit hole, a helmet, and a piece that hangs down covering the vitals. I haven't found any pics of anyone wearing lower arm or leg armor. Many just wear the additional upper arm protection and a helmet. Entry teams also are fronted by one or more guys with large shields.
 
Here's a pic that shows both a front and back view of the heaviest-armored ATF agents I could find:
 

 
So, looks like chest, stomach, vitals (note the flap hanging down on the one on the right, looks like soft kevlar, but I don't know), head (not the face, but for game purposes, close enough), part of the arm (I'd just count that as full torso coverage, b/c as noted the purpose is to prevent arm hole shots into the torso, though it incidentally protects part of the arm), and that's about it. So, maybe 10 through 13 and head (it looks like head takes 3-5, so two out of three of those might be reasonable to reflect the open front of the helmet)?
 
 
 
 
 

I think I'd just go with one or the other between hit location and activation rolls. They both have benefits and drawbacks. I'd personally lean toward hit location, since it allows the GM to describe the results of edge case rolls easier. If someone gets a hit location shot to the arm that knocks them out, that's weird. If they get shot in the soft armor over the liver, below the hard plates, then that's a description that makes it easier to maintain suspension of disbelief.
 
 
I'd say this is a good case for using activation rolls.
 
 
 

I'd say in game terms, a good roll should let a little Body damage through, and significant stun, depending on where you get hit. Soft kevlar is good at preventing serious damage from a bullet, but when I was an MP, I used to just punch guys in the gut who were too cocky about their vest protecting them from everything. Judging by their reaction, Stun could definitely get through.
 
I haven't looked over the book equipment write ups for a long time, but I think they're good enough for game purposes, barring really high stun multiplier rolls. If you're using hit locations, then the table's stun multipliers seems reasonable to me. Sure, you can get weird results from really high rolls, but weird stuff also happens in real life, too. If someone gets incapacitated from a hit to an arm location due to high a high Stun roll, just say it hit their funny bone an roll on. It can be fun to describe the edge cases, I think.
 
 
Normal agents don't wear full coverage body armor most of the time. Give them chest and vitals stomach coverage (or an 11- activation roll) soft Kevlar and that'd reflect more normal circumstances. Kevlar is HOT (and itchy), and miserable to wear. I'd look around at what police are actually using in your area, and maybe talk to one if you know one (because discussions of their armor will probably make police you don't know just a bit suspicious) and see what's being carried. What I'm seeing from casual observation around here is that most police don't wear any armor, and carry a heavier soft vest with a trauma plate in their trunk. When I was an MP, we had soft level 2 vests that we wore all the time (HOT, itchy), and carried a flak vest (good for flak, not so much bullets), riot helmet and baton in the trunk (the latter due to war protestors during Desert Storm).
 
The full body coverage body armor described in your OP should actually make agents immune to most small arms fire. If they're on an entry team, that's reasonable, because law enforcement is going to stack the odds in their favor. However, if they run around much beyond storming a building, they're going to get overheated pretty fast, I'd imagine. And driving a car in that get up is likely out, too.
 
I didn't read through the entirety of your longer post yet, but I'll come back to this thread in a bit. Keep in mind, I'm not an expert here, and haven't got experience with the latest tech.

Funny... I considered them breeding grounds for time flies... kinda like these boards...

Level II Kevlar should defeat .357 magnum, according to spec.
 
 
If you're looking for real life comparison, I doubt that three hits from a .357 to soft armor will KO someone. Kevlar is good at dispersing energy. Let's look at the hits:
 
First one to the ceramic plate: Should do no stun. There was a demo video going around in the 80's of a guy in a Second Chance vest with a trauma plate taking shots from a .308 while standing on one foot. He was unfazed by the hits. (The intent was to show that the bullet impact wouldn't have enough energy to knock someone over.)
 
IMO, if the armor value from a hard plate isn't enough to nullify the vast majority of the stun from up to a medium rifle round, then some additional non-resistant defense should be built into the armor to account for this. Let's say you have a relatively tough normal agent at 4 PD. Adding in 10 rPD, that's 14. I'm not sure what a medium rifle round is. Let's say 2d6 for the sake of argument. That's going to do an average of 7 Body and max of 12. So, given the rarity of the 11 or 12 roll, 10 rPD seems good for a hard plate. You could rule hits that get Body through as hitting on an edge or between plates, etc.
 
Now, as to Stun: If an attack doesn't do Body on a plate, it shouldn't be doing much Stun, either. But that's not the way Killing Damage works in Hero. Going off of 4th/5th edition, the Stun Multiplier will roll a 3.5 average given the +1 Stun X on most rifles. So, the 10 Body attack that should be mostly resisted by the plate would do about 35 Stun on an average Stun (but high Body) roll. Take the 14ish PD away from that leaves 21 Stun getting through on a very solid hit. That seems high, going by my feeling that a round stopped by a plate should still do minimal Stun. But this is a game, and in a game, that's a very good roll, so the Stun should be good. Looking at 5th Edition (Not revised), page 276, the fixed Stun Multiplier by chest hit location is x3, so that'd be 30 Stun on a 10 Body hit, or 40 Stun if you factor in the +1 Stun multiplier. Those numbers also seem a bit high. On an average hit of about 7 Body, we're looking at 28 Stun going by the hit location chart and the +1 multiplier. That still lets 14 past our guy's defenses, which still seems high for a trauma plate. The average hit essentially dazes the victim, which doesn't match reality (or, you know, an armor manufacturer's demo tape from thirty odd years ago).  It seems to me that perhaps adding a bit of non-resistant PD would be a better way to buy "realistic" body armor.
 
The hits to the shoulder and thigh? Two locations seriously unlikely to knock someone unconscious regardless of armor IMO. People get shot in the extremities all the time and continue to function. Were you using stun multiplier by hit location rules? IIRC, the rules for stun multipliers by hit location give greater stun multiples to vital areas, but smaller stun multipliers to extremities, which seems appropriate. (They'd only get x1 by the book, or x2 if you're also supposed to apply the bonus stun multiplier, which is likely.)
 
TLDR: The Stun numbers seem a bit too high, even if you're using the multipliers from the hit location chart. This is probably OK, since it's a game and a cinematic reality is the default setting for the rules. Bigger rolls should produce more dramatic results, and all that. If you wanted to add more realism, then adding a little extra non-resistant PD to the armor write ups might be a good way to go. Kevlar is good at dispersing energy, and that's not reflected in the Armor power itself.
 
Edit: Here's a link I found to an interesting article on body armor, with more  up to date details than my limited and dated knowledge:
 
http://www.policemag.com/channel/patrol/articles/2013/01/understanding-armor-plates.aspx
 
 

NOOOO!  Why are you back?
 
You had escaped...y-you'd made it out of this place!  WTH, man!?!?

Seriously. If Marvel manages to do this... to bring Kamala Khan to the big screen, with a script by G. Willow Wilson, please... I'll be very excited.  

To clarify, the dicking over continued until 1979, and, in fact, part of the reason that Khomeini ended up in power was also tied to how we tended to support far right nutjobs in the region, and at best turned a blind eye to, and at worst, encouraged their brutal suppression of anyone left of far, far right.
 
By the time the revolution occurred, the left in Iran was crushed to such an extent that it was child's play for the religious extremists to co-opt the revolution that they were only a part of, and then deal the final blow to the left.
 
There are some good state department papers on this process across the middle east, they were mostly written in relation to the rise of politicized Islam, before the rise of militant branches.

Okay I looked it up. Stingray did have two seasons. The first was eight episodes. The second was twenty
CES

Thanks for posting, and for an honest reaction. While this article doesn't describe me personally, that feeling described is something I think I lot of people carry with them, myself included. We have a close friend who is likely in this place in his life, and have no idea how, or if we should, broach the subject. It hurts to see him hurt, and to know how good he is at hiding it.
 
This bit, "I developed a deep feeling that it might be wrong to approach women and that it might be an imposition on them. I was certainly never going to be that guy who "used" women.
I felt women had the right to go about everyday life and enjoy a night out without having anyone approach them."    This really resonates. It is unfortunate how easy it is for polite courtesy can be synonymous with "invisible."
 
I had no idea about the "incel" culture, but I'm not surprised. The internet has shown itself to be a perfect catalyst for taking desperate/asocial/anti-social tendencies that were moslty isolated in the past, and forging a focused, brutal and often violent expression of them by connecting and allowing for unmitigated rage. It is so good at finding the hurt and pushing all the wrong buttons. 

I'd like to think I just missed it... but this is the kind of thing I only seem to read about in foreign press.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/11/rakem-balogun-interview-black-identity-extremists-fbi-surveillance?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+USA+-+Collections+2017&utm_term=274515&subid=24646434&CMP=GT_US_collection
 
Gee, I wonder why.

Ha! I'd be glad to share what I find, when I find it that is! Fresh blood, new ideas, or at least old ideas rehashed in a different light. I'll make certain to do just that!

Well, managed to find this rabbit-hole of a place and get on, may as well give my piece!
How did you come up with your 'handle' (forum name)? That part is the easy one. The name came from Golden Sun Dark Age, the name of a supporting cast character. Considering their role was such a departure from the tried and true methods of the other characters, and that the original game holds a special place in my heart, I used the name online once or twice. Eight years later, seems to have stuck.
What was the first tabletop RPG you played? D&D 3.5, not far back for many, but off in 2011. Easy enough to learn, hard as all get out to master with all the ad-dons that came after the core. That campaign lasted about two years, and the birth of one of our player's child. After that, we moved away and only rarely chat. Far as they've mentioned, they still swing D&D about on the rare occasion.
What was the first tabletop RPG you GMed? D&D 5e, not a year and a half ago. A nice and pretty world, more ruled by underpinning conspiracy's and hired leaders quelling local rabble. Leaders of dying countries sitting atop their mountain of pride to rule it all into the dirt lest their name be marred. Learned hard and fast that your world is plenty fine and dandy until PC's make crazy ideas and you let them run with them. Also helps to figure out if the players are looking for Dungeon Delves or inner turmoil and bizarre lenses for examination of human conditions. Lessons more or less learnt. 
What are you currently playing/GMing? I'm currently playing in World of Darkness, the Chronicles of Darkness in nWoD, not the old Masquerade-eske set. Something struck between a dour mystery and a Lovecraftian tea-party. Where the fact one swallowed a key is equally important as where the werewolves are. Nightmarish convoluted, as these things tend to grow, but a fun and amusing sort. Been going on now for some year and a half, and only just pushing our GM to their limits. 
When did you start playing Hero? Considering I can count the number of weeks I've known about the Hero system on my thumbs, hate to say that I haven't! Lovely system from what I've been able to devour of it. Convoluted too, but not in the traditional extraneous rules way, but in what it lets the players and GM do in it. A less focused direction in any one point, but that's sort of the point now isn't it? To let it become what is envisioned in the world of Hero's and Villains and underdogs and monsters, ect... Required flaws, more than comprehensive skill, equipment, base, vehicle lists, and the ability to create something fresh and new, or rehash an old classic in a new way... Well, I quite enjoy the look of it, and am looking forward to seeing what experiences it might bring! 

That's a good scene. And I gotta say it's one I would like to have seen in the main movie. I think it's an essential part of the story.  A small part yes, but essential.

I don't know if this counts as "news", but wow, I can relate to this article:
 
http://www.bbc.com/news/stories-43956366
 
 
I know how that feels.
 
Unlike the guy in the article, though, I have yet to find anyone special, at 41. Like him, I don't expect that I ever will.

I wanted to make sure everyone had a chance to see this. It is from a thread in the Hero System Discussion board but I know not everyone here frequents that spot regularly. I know how it hit me, and sad as it is I would still want to know. 
 
HM was a long time resident of these boards. He was a mainstay for many of us, always there, always supportive and friendly. I used to live in his part of the state but I never was able to meet him in person. I never knew quite what to say even earlier in this thread. But I wanted to get a chance to somehow say farewell to a guy I considered a friend even though I never got to shake his hand. When I heard about further brain surgery I pictured what he must be going through, I've seen my dad get such a procedure, but Didn't understand how truly bad it must have been for him.
 
Goodbye, Hyper-Man. Thanks for stopping by and spending some time with this esoteric message board. We were better for it.
 
Goodbye, David. I wish I could have met you.
 
Good bye, Hero.
 

Yeah, it's a bit vague there.
 
What I think is going on  is that Ward's dad WAS given immortality dragon bone juice.  The immortality dragon bone  juice gives someone limited immortality. I base this assumption on the fact that the Hand keep harvesting the dragon bones. I am assuming that they need to take it periodically.  When they do take it for a period of time (and that period would have to be more than a century based on Madam Gao's claim that she spent the 17th century being tortured) you can't die unless you are beheaded. Eventually the juice runs out of juice and you got mortality again. As for getting more violent with every death, who's to say that the Hand aren't  getting more psycho as they go along? They're ninja assassins after all. Elektra came back crazier than before.
 
Of course this begs the question, why waste some of the very limited amount of immortality dragon bone juice on Ward's dad?
 
But this is all my guesswork. The shows are very vague about the details. Which is probably deliberate on the part of the producers/writers as they probably wanted to avoid writing themselves into a corner. Which is fair. I mean the Hand have been around for 4 different series (DD1 & 2, Ironfist, and the Defenders) so that means a lot of different creatives have had a hand in their story. (Pun intended.) It's difficult to get consistency under these circumstances and I sympathise with the writers. But in the end this leads to us having a very muddled and unsatisfactory story.

Point of clarification: Comcast is a media conglomerate. It isn't a movie studio. Owning a studio through subsidiaries does not make you a movie studio yourself. Comcast does not produce movies. At most they facilitate financing (like Netflix does). For instance, you've never gone to a movie and seen the Comcast logo appear as the studio brand preceding the opening titles. What you see is the Universal logo with "a Comcast company" underneath. The way you read that is: "Universal made this movie, but Comcast pays its operating bills."
 
-*-*-*-
 
Re: Iron Fist - The biggest reason to despise Iron Fist is because it failed so profoundly to live up to its potential. The story that was told was one of the least  interesting stories you could possibly tell given the wealth of fascinating source material at the writers'/producers' disposal. Danny being annoying and the fight choreography being third-rate are not the show's biggest weaknesses; the entire storyline and the style with which it was told was. Iron Fist should have been far more cinematic than it was, it should have been positively drenched in the aesthetics and culture of Kun Lun, but instead the show spent 100% of its running time in hum-drum, mundane New York City. Instead of the MCU version of Into the Badlands meets Kung Fu we got Dallas meets American Ninja.