RDU Neil

In this case, I'm actually agreeing with Christopher, which is rare, I know. It isn't that the authorities knew about Stark's parents... it is that CAP KNEW! The biggest "Whoa!" moment for me in the movie is that Cap states that he suspected, based on all the info Fury had given him and the months of searching... that he highly suspected that Barnes was behind Stark's parent's death.
 
That suddenly puts everything is a VERY different light, because it explains why Cap never really asked for help with Barnes; why he did everything on his own, and never really laid his cards on the table. That paints Cap in a much less flattering light, and IMO, it is what REALLY sent Stark over the "He killed my mom!" edge.
 
It wasn't just that Cap supported Bucky, but that he knew about Stark's parents and never came clean... that he made his choice, Bucky before Stark and the Avengers. That was what I loved about Zemo's plan... if you are going to have a convoluted plan to destroy the Avengers, hinge it on personal betrayals.
 
Again, I love this movie because neither of the protagonists were right, and both made decisions that made things worse, and both egotistical enough (in very different ways) to justify their decisions to themselves. Oh, and all of it completely in character for these movie versions of the two classics. Stark is the most self-sabotaging of characters (doing the right thing in the most wrong way possible), while Bucky is the most important person in Cap's life (especially after Peggy died).
 

Absolutely. And if I abuse my individual freedom, not much happens other than jail. If Captain America, or the Vision or the Hulk abuse their individual freedom, terrible things DO happen, as we've seen.
 
 

I thought this was a great read:
Trump White House quietly issues report vindicating Obama regulations
TLDR:
White House Office of Management and Budget (OMB), just released its annual report on the costs and benefits of federal regulations. It turns out most of them return more benefit than their cost, even if you use the high-ball for cost and the low ball for benefit. These benefits tend to be progressive; they cost the titans of industry, and they give benefits to the poorer classes. Also, the regulations do not kill jobs, but they may move them to new areas or industries.

Absolutely. And if I abuse my individual freedom, not much happens other than jail. If Captain America, or the Vision or the Hulk abuse their individual freedom, terrible things DO happen, as we've seen.
 
 

Absolutely. And if I abuse my individual freedom, not much happens other than jail. If Captain America, or the Vision or the Hulk abuse their individual freedom, terrible things DO happen, as we've seen.
 
 

But this was the crux of the movies... whether or not they agreed with the authorities, there were those who say "They have the right to decide, and we shouldn't undermine or act against them," vs. "We know better than the authorities, therefore we take it on ourselves to interfere." The Bucky issue was the "personal" issue that exemplified the larger, more broad issue of the Accords. 
 
To have the "follow the law" group be all, "Oh, except when Cap says He's my friend! and then I will break the law" would have been disingenuous at best.
 
That Cap went after Bucky ahead of the J-SOC and police who were on a kill mission made sense. Bucky's response made sense, even though it made it harder on Cap. THEN, Black Panther comes in for revenge and REALLY makes it a mess... but Bucky is captured.
 
At that point, ok... things are tense, but we really haven't crossed any lines, yet. Once Bucky escapes, killing more people on the way out... now Cap is willing to keep risking more and more collateral damage (civilian death) because he's obsessed with his friend. The only way you justify the other Avengers just going along with Cap is if you take the unrealistic "We are in a comic book, so of COURSE he's being manipulated by a REAL villain!" attitude. That's not appropriate for these characters, especially not Stark after Bucky very deliberately tried to put a bullet through his head. They had every reason to assume he homicidal and unstable, even if it as due to years of conditioning by Hydra... that only makes it worse. He'd been known to affect these exact kind of attacks (destabilizing, taking out progressive leaders, etc.) in the past. To expect everyone to trust Cap, just because he's Cap, I don't see that he's earned that, yet.
 
I particularly like Civil War, because I didn't agree with either "side" very much. The Accords were going to happen, but Stark's obsessive manipulation to get people in line was terrible. Cap's egotistical "I know better, so I shouldn't have to be accountable" attitude was seriously troubling, in that he completely dismissed the law over his obsessive friendship with Bucky. Both of them were highly flawed and driven by their emotions... and it really ended badly for them both.

https://politics.theonion.com/disgusted-robert-mueller-eats-2-20-piece-chicken-mcnugg-1819580164
 

Oh... this is a legit thread... I thought it was more like...
 
"How do I write up... "Power of paying off enormous student loans on a waiter's crummy tips!" and "Effective Blogging on Gender Performativity in Modern Polish Cinema" and "Living in a studio apartment with two other people without killing them" etc.

But this was the crux of the movies... whether or not they agreed with the authorities, there were those who say "They have the right to decide, and we shouldn't undermine or act against them," vs. "We know better than the authorities, therefore we take it on ourselves to interfere." The Bucky issue was the "personal" issue that exemplified the larger, more broad issue of the Accords. 
 
To have the "follow the law" group be all, "Oh, except when Cap says He's my friend! and then I will break the law" would have been disingenuous at best.
 
That Cap went after Bucky ahead of the J-SOC and police who were on a kill mission made sense. Bucky's response made sense, even though it made it harder on Cap. THEN, Black Panther comes in for revenge and REALLY makes it a mess... but Bucky is captured.
 
At that point, ok... things are tense, but we really haven't crossed any lines, yet. Once Bucky escapes, killing more people on the way out... now Cap is willing to keep risking more and more collateral damage (civilian death) because he's obsessed with his friend. The only way you justify the other Avengers just going along with Cap is if you take the unrealistic "We are in a comic book, so of COURSE he's being manipulated by a REAL villain!" attitude. That's not appropriate for these characters, especially not Stark after Bucky very deliberately tried to put a bullet through his head. They had every reason to assume he homicidal and unstable, even if it as due to years of conditioning by Hydra... that only makes it worse. He'd been known to affect these exact kind of attacks (destabilizing, taking out progressive leaders, etc.) in the past. To expect everyone to trust Cap, just because he's Cap, I don't see that he's earned that, yet.
 
I particularly like Civil War, because I didn't agree with either "side" very much. The Accords were going to happen, but Stark's obsessive manipulation to get people in line was terrible. Cap's egotistical "I know better, so I shouldn't have to be accountable" attitude was seriously troubling, in that he completely dismissed the law over his obsessive friendship with Bucky. Both of them were highly flawed and driven by their emotions... and it really ended badly for them both.

https://politics.theonion.com/disgusted-robert-mueller-eats-2-20-piece-chicken-mcnugg-1819580164
 

Who doesn't need more hugs?

It would also be heroic to defy unjust laws that serve to disenfranchise some people for the benefit of others.
 
 
 
It would also be heroic to resist the judgements of the state that protects killer cops and bombs civillians to maintain its economic hegemony.
 
 
Respect doesn't have to mean you don't provide options that could improve the state of the world that you, uniquely, with your superiority, could offer. It is also heroic to challenge foolishn and dangerous behavior that is inherent to baseline humanity.
 
 
 
That definition is also the basis of every super-villain motivation, ever. Even the Joker is adhering to certain principles (chaos and pain), immune to punishment (because he just doesn't care), and believes it is the right thing to do (his actions are the only true response to an insane world.) I'm sure some people admire that, too.
 
I'm not saying what you describe isn't heroic/superheroic... but that it isn't the ONLY way to be superheroic... and that none of these aspects are perfect, pure and unassailable, without flaw and negative repercussions, as some would insist, "full stop."
 
 

Fascism is obsessed with notions of rebirth, notions of victimhood and notions of superiority... all of which are found as underlying themes of supers. Comics are full of the righteous individual who is "reborn" after suffering some kind of tragedy, and becomes better than everyone else, using the power to operate outside the law as a self-appointed doer of good (and they get to define what good is.)  All of that simmers in the background of most supers, and what is referred to as the Iron Age is when that bubbled to the top, and the power fantasy of bad-ass, male aggression, but it has always been there. Just because an adolescent "dream of someone who is so good they can deal with the injustice and evil" isrelatively innocent and naïve in many cases, doesn't make it less similar to the populist concepts that give rise to fascism. 

Quick question as to how your game has played out, since you indicate a couple of years of play has passed. Are big events like you've described... Tyrranon randomly showing up, invasion by V'Han, Destroyer taking over a country... are these huge, earth shattering events pretty much an every month or so occurrence, or are they big deals? When this kind of thing happens, is it business as usual or a major event that changes the course of play? Comics tend toward the former... to the point where the Buffy joke, "The world is ending.  Again?" becomes common. The latter, if it were my world, would be that Destroyer doesn't show up unless something momentous is happening, and PCs will die, islands will sink, the world will change kind of deal.

Basically, has it become so that even the most cosmic of events, well, everything is back to normal by next week! Or should the players look at this series of events  V'Han annihilates much of the world's superhuman populace and rains destruction on the globe, Dr. Destroyer uses this as an opportunity to really make his first chess move (as Lord Liaden pointed out) to really gain domination, and holy cow!, Menton is suddenly acting publicly in concert with Destroyer... and pretty much realize that kid gloves are off, they better put their big girl tights on or the world might just get conquered this time. (Are you, in fact, as the GM, are entirely prepared for the game to go either way... PCs win and stabilize things... or Destroyer wins and the campaign becomes a "Lead the rebellion against the tyrant of Earth!" ??)
 
It just really helps to know the vibe of the game, because that would push certain "what happens next?" ideas over others.
 
Like, to the point of resources and humanitarian aid... if it is a more sci-fi, real ramifications campaign, then the question of resources and how he is managing it becomes really important in PC plans... "Ok, he can't keep this up, and we need to apply political pressure, insight rebellion, and generally outlast him" or "He is using technology of such advanced nature that he essentially has a Star Trek like replicator and can turn garbage into healthy food and clean water so people don't think he is being particularly villainous, and he could seriously take over!"... both are serious ramifcations. But if the players expect a more comic-bookey experience, where resources aren't really an issue (VIPER always has the next hidden base no matter how many losses they sustain, the supers or bad guys always have money and tech they need (unless their character is defined by the Peter Parker syndrome) etc. Therefore it is really about unraveling a nutso plot of mind control and supervillain team-ups that will only end in tears, etc.
 
A game can have aspects of both (crazy mind control plots and real world political and economic ramifications) but the players are going to respond based on the expectations that have been built over time. If, in the past, swooping in with hands on the hips and "Halt Evildoer!" ending up in a super donnybrook is how things have been handled, suddenly changing the way the world works and making it a matter of deeply complicated and difficult to resolve machinations that require long, protracted and complex political and military solutions, then it probably won't go over well. What are your groups expectations for the seriousness and complexity of the plots you have laid out?

Actually, the PCs have been the unintentional cause of some events in the campaign. The Cuban plot development was a result of their actions during the war. When V’Han came, Cuba was one of her force’s major beachheads, and the PCs attacked the ship, which had a few of their alternate universe counterparts on it.
 
After V’Han was driven off, which some of the PCs felt might have been “too easy,” it was later discovered that many superhumans were now missing, and entire superteams were gone. The players are pretty sure this means they’ve been kidnapped by V’Han’s forces before her withdrawal. However, instead of diving right into that, the PCs have been getting run a bit ragged dealing with suddenly being the world’s most visible superheroes that are active. The V’Han War has been one of the more major events in my campaign.
 
Cuba was a V’Han beachhead, and the PC’s counterparts crushed the Cuban military at the head of V’Han’s soldiers in their opening move, which was one reason they decided to go to Cuba instead of one of the other hot spots. After the war was over, Dr. Destroyer made his first move, taking over the remnants of Cuba. His ability to produce food and medicine via his technology is pretty much equivalent to using a Star Trek replicator.
 
Instead of just beating the crook of the week, although some sessions are like that, the campaign’s overall story arc has been a series of events that slowly increase the stakes for the PCs and raise their visibility. They started out as one new team amongst many older, existing teams and their actions have gradually rewritten the campaign world, in one story arc literally when they went on a multi-session time travel odyssey and altered certain key events in the history of the Champions Universe, creating this alternate timeline version.
 
Their time travel adventures attracted V’Han’s attention, which then led to the war, which has led to the current events.
 
I always check at the end of each session if everyone is having a good time, and the responses have been positive. Everyone keeps coming back, and it’s been over two years now.

Yet the fascist undertones of the superhero genre are exactly what were examined in, and really the entire point of, Watchmen.  This is not a new concept.

Indulging in adolescent power fantasies that lean toward simplistic solutions (a good right hook) for complex problems, actually. The problem is when these natural tendencies toward righteous fantasy begin to affect actual social and political stratagems we start to form fascist ideologies.
It is always interesting how people get resistant, dismissive and angry when something they love is shown to have a dark, complex, and not always positive side to it. Instead of resisting and dismissing these aspects, why not embrace this complexity and nuance instead of acting like it somehow doesn't exist? I shared those same adolescent power fantasies when younger, and can still feel the atavistic pleasure in them, but I love supers even more when the concept is used to wrestle with these deeper, more difficult challenges to what we think is right and good. Literature, comics and gaming are great vehicles for exploring these more complex aspects of life in a safe environment that is also a whole lot of fun.
 
I feel it is important to really reflect on why we feel the "satisfaction of a well placed fist in a threatening face" (if I remember my Tony Stark quotes correctly), or at least the comic/gaming simulation of such.

Fascism is obsessed with notions of rebirth, notions of victimhood and notions of superiority... all of which are found as underlying themes of supers. Comics are full of the righteous individual who is "reborn" after suffering some kind of tragedy, and becomes better than everyone else, using the power to operate outside the law as a self-appointed doer of good (and they get to define what good is.)  All of that simmers in the background of most supers, and what is referred to as the Iron Age is when that bubbled to the top, and the power fantasy of bad-ass, male aggression, but it has always been there. Just because an adolescent "dream of someone who is so good they can deal with the injustice and evil" isrelatively innocent and naïve in many cases, doesn't make it less similar to the populist concepts that give rise to fascism. 

Quick question as to how your game has played out, since you indicate a couple of years of play has passed. Are big events like you've described... Tyrranon randomly showing up, invasion by V'Han, Destroyer taking over a country... are these huge, earth shattering events pretty much an every month or so occurrence, or are they big deals? When this kind of thing happens, is it business as usual or a major event that changes the course of play? Comics tend toward the former... to the point where the Buffy joke, "The world is ending.  Again?" becomes common. The latter, if it were my world, would be that Destroyer doesn't show up unless something momentous is happening, and PCs will die, islands will sink, the world will change kind of deal.

Basically, has it become so that even the most cosmic of events, well, everything is back to normal by next week! Or should the players look at this series of events  V'Han annihilates much of the world's superhuman populace and rains destruction on the globe, Dr. Destroyer uses this as an opportunity to really make his first chess move (as Lord Liaden pointed out) to really gain domination, and holy cow!, Menton is suddenly acting publicly in concert with Destroyer... and pretty much realize that kid gloves are off, they better put their big girl tights on or the world might just get conquered this time. (Are you, in fact, as the GM, are entirely prepared for the game to go either way... PCs win and stabilize things... or Destroyer wins and the campaign becomes a "Lead the rebellion against the tyrant of Earth!" ??)
 
It just really helps to know the vibe of the game, because that would push certain "what happens next?" ideas over others.
 
Like, to the point of resources and humanitarian aid... if it is a more sci-fi, real ramifications campaign, then the question of resources and how he is managing it becomes really important in PC plans... "Ok, he can't keep this up, and we need to apply political pressure, insight rebellion, and generally outlast him" or "He is using technology of such advanced nature that he essentially has a Star Trek like replicator and can turn garbage into healthy food and clean water so people don't think he is being particularly villainous, and he could seriously take over!"... both are serious ramifcations. But if the players expect a more comic-bookey experience, where resources aren't really an issue (VIPER always has the next hidden base no matter how many losses they sustain, the supers or bad guys always have money and tech they need (unless their character is defined by the Peter Parker syndrome) etc. Therefore it is really about unraveling a nutso plot of mind control and supervillain team-ups that will only end in tears, etc.
 
A game can have aspects of both (crazy mind control plots and real world political and economic ramifications) but the players are going to respond based on the expectations that have been built over time. If, in the past, swooping in with hands on the hips and "Halt Evildoer!" ending up in a super donnybrook is how things have been handled, suddenly changing the way the world works and making it a matter of deeply complicated and difficult to resolve machinations that require long, protracted and complex political and military solutions, then it probably won't go over well. What are your groups expectations for the seriousness and complexity of the plots you have laid out?

We are the NRA!

Mark Millar is not someone I'm particularly enamored of, but his comments here have an element of truth to them, IMO.
 
https://io9.gizmodo.com/mark-millar-has-an-interesting-about-theory-why-marvel-1823282223
 
The first part, about how DCs characters are about "their powers" and Marvel's are about "the character" really makes sense. One of the reasons Wonder Woman worked as a movie, is that it was about Diana, not "super strong, lasso of truthiness, god killer". She was extremely relatable to many movie-goers... the way the new Peter Parker or Steve Rogers or Natasha Romanov (as portrayed in the movies) really connect with the audience.
 
The more I think about it, the character they've chosen to portray in DC... the big 3, Aquadude, Flash, Cyborg... none of them ever really connected with me as a reader... Cyborg being the closest, and Flash only once it was Wally West (post-Crisis). Now, if they'd been forced (as Marvel was) to use B-list characters... maybe a Nightwing, Raven, Black Lightning (LOVE that show, currently), etc., then maybe they might have had better luck? I mean, even on their shows, Supergirl doesn't work at all if you pay the remotest critical attention to superpowers and how they are used on that show... but it is great to watch because Kara Danvers and her sister and Jimmy and Cat Grant and J'onn J'onzz are amazingly fun CHARACTERS to get to know and watch.

Cuba is right off the cost of the U.S., so the Americans would be at DefCon 3 if not DefCon2. International air travel to the Caribbean would probably be suspended, as well as the U.S. instituting a no-fly zone and naval blockade.
 
If your world's  Venezuela is anything like the real world's current status, then I could see either of a couple things happening. Either Maduro makes an overture of to Destroyer for an alliance, since he is what is left of Hugo Chavez' attempt to do there, exactly what you say Destroyer is doing in Cuba. Or, Destroyer might make his next move there, seeing as he could actually fulfill the promises that the past 25 years have failed to materialize in Venezuela (which has some of the riches oil, mineral and other natural resources in the world.)
 
The Zapatistas in Mexico would be in a similar vein, having waged a quarter century guerrilla war against the corrupt government and  the cartels.
 
I'd think he would be able to open build alliances in many areas in Central and South America, if not overtly expand out of Cuba. Specifically, if his forces just hopped over to Puerto Rico and started giving them the aid our govenment has failed to do in the wake of the hurricanes. 
 
Of course that would probably precipitate open war with the U.S.  I don't know how you've developed your world... what, if any supers are government sponsored, controlled, what military supers there are, advanced military based on super tech, etc. Are supers an established international "first response team" as an accepted modus operandi, or is deploying supers on foreign soil the equivalent of a nuclear strike and violates treaties, precipitates escallations, etc. 
 
Of course, there are all kinds of political issues internal to the U.S. Very likely a sizable portion of Cuban Americans would demand swift and overt action, and the current administration is... less than thoughtful or restrained... so I'd personally expect things to go nuclear (either literally, or the super equivalent of it) pretty quickly. 
 
What is your super-level like? Do you have Justice League level, near god-like Superman types, or are your more of a Champs Universe/Marvel level of characters? What is the state of the rest of the world after V'Han's invasion? What is the status of UNTIL and other such agencies after the war? What is their international status and efficacy? (Like, in my world, UNTIL was never allowed to operate on US soil, or in Russia, but had developed a significant power base in an EU that ended up much more united than our world, because it was supported by a unified military force and a large scale superteam (we called it UNITE) that became the real world super-power. 
 
If you have really high powered, DC like supers, then I'm thinking this spirals into a major cosmic like showdown. If this is more Champs/Marvel level, then I see it more of a protracted central aspect of a campaign that involves keeping certain leaders fingers off the button, overtures to Destroyer for peaceful negotiations via Atlantis or some extra-governmental power, dealing with the inevitable social unrest and likely military state of emergency that the US will be under, covert missions by supers who do that well to try and infiltrate Cuba and figure out what is happening, etc.
 
Personally, this sounds like an AWESOME campaign plot, which I'd find incredibly fun to play.

We are the NRA!