assault

Re: Need ideas in Native American mystic... Here's an odd but interesting site: http://www.hunterbear.org/navajo_witchcraft_and_the_skinwa.htm The guy who wrote it fits into "odd but interesting" too.

Re: Alternate Earth #24: Iron Age I was just thinking about what I wrote about Assault. Essentially, what I wrote suggested that he would become a truly Iron Age character - a politician! Yeah. It works for me. Especially since he would be the kind of politician that has his own militia. Hmm....

Re: Alternate Earth #24: Iron Age Assault wouldn't change at all - until "the war" started. Then he would get a lot more serious. One thing he would pay more attention to would be building his team of support staff and allies. Ironically, he would go from being one of the most cynical and "grey" Bronze Age characters to being one of the most idealistic and "heroic" Iron Agers. He might even become quite popular - a major faction leader. This would come to an abrupt end sometime after other super-factions started overthrowing human governments. The problem would be that he would not only be opposed to such overthrows, but that he would start to actively and publicly support some of the target governments. His faction would start getting the reputation of being the "Commie Mutant Traitor Party" or something of the sort. And then they would get into a smackdown with Wanderer and his boys....

Re: When was the "Silver Age" in the CU? DC were trying to do "relevant" stories in the early 70's. Sometimes they did them well, and sometimes laughably badly, but they were doing them. The Green Arrow/Green Lantern "on the road" sequences were fairly well done. The "Supersons" stories about Batman and Superman's children and their generation gap problems with their parents were spectacularly bad. I, of course, love them, precisely for their badness. I would still go with the early 70's start for the Bronze Age in comics terms. I would go with Dr Destroyer's first appearance for the CU. Having said that, Millenium City talks about Scarlet Shield dealing with "race riots" in Detroit during the CU "Silver Age". That's not a particularly "four colour" theme, and is a prime example of the kind of difficulty in mapping "four colour" superheroics onto the real world. Oh well. There's another interesting thing to consider: where could you set games in the 50s and 60s? It wouldn't be easy to try to reconstruct Detroit from Millenium City, so it's out. Vibora Bay would probably be OK, but it has the mystic emphasis which might clash with the Science Fiction elements in Silver Age material. I guess Hudson City would probably be the best bet amongst the published CU cities, which obviously runs against its "no superpowers" theme. I guess it might be necessary to go to a real-world city like New York. Or, perhaps, grab something from some other game universe. Empire City from SAS sounds likely. But obviously we're not dealing with the "official" CU at this point.

Re: When was the "Silver Age" in the CU? Historical points: The Silver Age Flash first appeared in 1956. Robin appeared in 1940. Batman's (and Robin's) code against killing appeared a little later. Generally: It probably doesn't really make sense to have "ages" within a particular universe. They never happened in the real world... Of course you can have phenomena like the "superhero gap", and a second generation of supers, but that's not quite the same. But still, there are those references, and Silver Age Champions is on the "to do" list. Four Colour games are, of course, possible in any setting, but there is more to the Silver Age than just that. It's a matter of time period and flavour, as well as an emphasis on Science Fiction themes. For example, the Golden Age Green Lantern's power was mystical. The Silver Age Green Lantern's power was scientific. The Golden Age Hawkman was a reincarnation of an Ancient Egyptian Prince, while the Silver Age Hawkman was a cop from another planet. And, of course, the Fantastic Four fought atomic monsters and B-movie aliens like the Skrulls. And then there were mutants, Commies!, Hidden Lands, and so on... Metaphysician suggested: "AFAIK, Silver Age Champions stretches from the formation of the Fabulous Five until the first conquest attempt by Dr Destroyer ( when Kid Chameleon of the F5 died )." This seems fair enough. I might add the "superhero gap" to it as a kind of precursor period, featuring monster hunters and "plain clothes" supers. This would provide a vague parallel to the pulpish "mystery man" period at the start of the Golden Age. So, I would treat it as being roughly 1950-1975, with the first decade being very low-key. Well, it works for me, anyway. Thanks to everyone for your input.

I've been looking through Champions Universe and Millenium City again, and noticed that there are references to the "Silver Age", "Bronze Age" and so on. "Silver Age Champions" is supposedly going to be written in the indefinite future, (maybe, perhaps...). Presumably it would detail the CU's "Silver Age". The question is: when was it? More precisely, when did it end? Or maybe that should be, less precisely, roughly when did it end? For what it's worth, I can actually see a situation where the combination of all the other books are going to make Silver Age Champions seem a little redundant. A lot of relevant equipment would already be in either Golden Age Champions or Dark Champions. A bunch of relevant characters have already been published in Digital Hero or elsewhere. Hidden Lands would have already covered that particular Silver Age feature, while Galactic Champions has covered at least some aspects of the Science Fiction influences. There's the mutant stuff, of course, but that's not just, or even mainly Silver Age, these days. All that seems really distinctive is the historical setting. OK, there's the Cold War aspect, which is interesting, and then there are the B-movies... Actually, it's probably the latter which really makes it interesting. I guess we need some details on the Qularr and Selenites... PS: I just had a look at the Hero Universe PDF from the Free Stuff. It describes Silver Age Champions as covering the period from 1965 to 1980. This seems a little odd, IMHO.

Re: DC Downunder Toowoomba, actually. Although I was living in Brisbane back when I started playing Champions in 1982.

Re: DC Downunder It's in at least some shops, too. I got my copy last Thursday in Brisbane. For what it's worth, at least a couple of shops had lots of Hero stuff in stock. Hopefully, that's because it's selling. Which, I might add, might be worth thinking about for Hero Games. Champions Universe, in particular, was a bit dismissive of the presence of supers in Australia and New Zealand. That makes it a little difficult to set games here if a GM wants to follow the official CU closely. Since we appear to be a not-entirely-insignificant market, that's at least a minor problem. Of course, individual GMs can and should ignore that in their campaigns, but that's not really the point. As for what I am thinking of doing with DC - well, a DC:TAS game looks interesting. I might have it coexisting with a "Champions: TAS" game as well, with slightly more powerful characters in the latter. In other words, have both "animated Batman" and "animated Superman" hanging around. Or something like that.

Re: DC / Marvel Generational Timelines In some of my attempts at similar things, I've said that Supergirl became Power Girl for more or less the same reason that Robin became Nightwing.

Re: what Champions products are you really looking foward to? Golden Age Champions, Pulp Hero and Vibora Bay will all be must buys, but the one I am really hanging out for is Hidden Lands. To put it simply, it looks like it's going to be a real bonus for those of us who don't live in North America. I'm also a bit behind in buying stuff, so some of the things I am looking forward to are already out!

Re: Superhero Day! "If" a villain decides to strike? Surely you mean "when"? Surely the real tradition of Superhero Day is the epic battle with Foxbat and/or Pulsar.

Re: Tactical Question: How would your characters deal with these villians? Well, the real overall answer to this problem is: think, not fight. Unless the PCs are overwhelmingly tough, they will be stomped. The best way to deal with these guys, or any other ubervillains, is to treat them like Galactus. You don't just fly up and zap him - you find a way to make him go away and bother someone else. I'm a bit twitchy about Ocean - omnipotence is not a good power for a villain to have. I played in a game where the main villain was a precog and we couldn't find a way of getting around him. Everything we tried was predicted and countered. Now, if we had had a decent scientist/gadgeteer, or if our team's wizard had been designed to do anything more useful than throwing fireballs (yawn...), we might have been able to fix him. But without that, we were totally dependent on the GM providing a suitable plot device. And he didn't. We were pooched. So, if these guys are supposed to be what the campaign is about, you will have to provide the PCs a way of beating them. Either that, or hold the players' hands when they are designing their characters, to ensure that they build appropriate characters. Otherwise, the PCs are just going to get beaten, and the players are going to think your game sucks. Of course, you don't have to make it easy for the PCs to find out how to beat the bad guys - just let them know/hope that there is an answer out there. Without it, they will just skip town. PS (Edit): Champions is, of course, a roleplaying game, not a tactical simulation. The answer to all problems like these is, of course, to roleplay.

Re: Tactical Question: How would your characters deal with these villians? Ocean is a bit of a worry, of course. Generally speaking, my characters would approach things the Reed Richards way: find a loophole. That is, get someone tougher than them to beat up on the bads, borrow the Ultimate Nullifier, or generally pull something out of a hat. Going toe to toe with them would be a mistake. My only character that is anywhere near their point totals is my current version of Assault, but he doesn't really have a team to back him up, so he would be toast in a fight. Then again, he has lots of friends. Whizkid (Reed Richards meets Kid Flash) would be suitable for a "find a loophole" approach. Marino, well, uhh, forget it. Unless he can convince the whole of Atlantis to declare war on them... Hmm...

Re: Death with Dignity : An examination of the Golden Age The thing with the Joker is that he is a recurring character who can't be killed off. Many other Batman villains have been explicitly killed off over the years. One or two of these have been retconned back to life, like the guy that had Dick Grayson's parents killed, but he got the chair the first time around. Batman's CVK was one of the earliest ones, probably because he was originally one of the most violent characters. But even after it was introduced, his opponents would usually be punished for their crimes. Well, except for Catwoman. The "Joker problem" built up over time. In part, of course, it's a problem of taking continuity seriously. It _is_ unrealistic that he would have escaped all those times. It is _not_ so unrealistic that he might have escaped (or been broken out) a couple of times. Then there is the problem with the increasing violence of his crimes... As far as Champions campaigns go, all this stuff shouldn't really be a problem. First of all, few games last for 60 years! Second, the PC's Hunteds are the only real recurring villains in a campaign. Everyone else can be locked up or rubbed out without particular drama. So can Hunteds too, of course, although they should technically be replaced or bought off. So frankly, the GM just needs to keep the core villains (the Hunteds) plausible, and discard the others whenever appropriate. They can always be brought back if necessary. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as it's not overused. I'm currently experimenting with building characters without Hunteds, with an eye towards keeping recurring villains scarce. PS (Edit): OddHat's last post was posted while I was writing this one. I agree with him entirely.

Re: Foriegn Captain America's

Re: Hey Darren Watts!

Re: [4color] Why do you dislike the Iron Age style? (No flames, ok?) The current Catwoman series is an interesting case. She's a Robin Hood-style criminal, not a superhero, although the heroes (read: Batman) know she's kind of on their side. She steals. She kills. She's an ex-prostitute. She wears a tight leather costume, and is often drawn in a distinctly T&A oriented manner. Her sidekick is a recovering junky and a lesbian. Blah blah blah. Iron Age? Not really. At least, not how it tends to be used here. Because, underneath it all there is an idea that most people are essentially decent, even when they are in bad situations. There is a moral sense to it all - Selina cares for the people she defends. It is, ultimately, a book about a heroine. One who occasionally sleeps with Bruce Wayne.

Re: Ultimate Wonder Twins

Re: Ultimate Wonder Twins Zann's powers aren't necessarily useless as they are. He just needs a bit of practice, and some intelligence. Potentially, he can become "invisible", pass through locked doors, and generally do the stealthy intruder thing. Give him a bit of training and he could become quite viable. Hmm. Actually, he's just annoying enough to make it into _my_ Champions Universe. How would _you_ like it if he kicked your character's butt? I wouldn't bother to Iron Age them up too much. Just taking them seriously would fix them a lot.

Re: [Meta] What would your character be? Assault would shrug, and go to the pub. Even the Silver Age version drinks. His Life Support means alcohol doesn't affect him.

Re: [4color] Why do you dislike the Iron Age style? (No flames, ok?) First, I play Traveller, which allows you to blow stuff up with nukes, (as long as you don't get caught!). I've already got the lethal power game slot filled. Second, I really, really like old Golden and Silver Age stuff. I mainly collect reprints. Third, the "realistic" stuff I read is mainly street level stuff like Catwoman. I have also read stuff like Zenith and so on. The only characters in these books that would carry on like the Authority are bad guys. Or, at least, in Zenith's case, there was no attempt to whitewash the telepath who became British Prime Minister through using his powers. Fourth, I _have_ actually thought about "what would I do if I had Superman's powers". Frankly, I have no desire to play this in a game, and even less so because I would end up in conflict with all the other players, and probably the GM.

Re: Reconciling Manga & Batman The Brick you have described is a Brick with no combat training, that is, a lousy fighter. They probably _should_ be able to be outfought by a Batman equivalent. On the other hand, they can suck up damage in a way the martial artist can't. That's why I prefer playing them.

Re: I love The Ultimates Which ones can't he use simultaneously? That is, which can be put in a multipower?

Re: Code VS Killing Poll

Re: Reconciling Manga & Batman Hmm... in my game world... 20 STR is common enough for non-powered superheroes. That's 4d6 damage. Offensive Strike gives +4d6 damage. That's 8d6 so far. The question then becomes how many extra Damage Classes are you willing to permit a character to buy? Personally, I'll go as far as 5 for a serious Master. 2-4 is more normal for a martial artist PC. Going with 5 in this case gives us 13d6. How about a weapon? Some kind of stick might allow a character to justify another 3d6, bringing us up to 16d6. That's pretty extreme, but this character is still nominally a normal human, and bought according to the rules... Let's push it a bit, and make them not _quite_ human, and go with 30 Str. And, let's face it, if they are the world's absolute best martial artist, they could even go with another couple of Damage Classes. That gets us up to 20d6. Of course, this character has probably spent a few decades or centuries in a Lost City in the Himalayas, but he or she is a non-Chi oriented martial artist who can punch out a tank. And if she wants to buy some Chi powers: are you going to argue? The point of all this is that there can be a zone where the non-Chi characters and the Chi-powered ones can meaningfully compete. In reality, I would never make Batman the world's greatest martial artist. He's not focussed enough on the single set of skills, and instead is prone to waste his time studying how to be a detective or a scientist. Another aspect of it all is that Chi-powers are related to certain systems of mysticism. Without those mystical aspects of the study of martial arts, you are unlikely to be able to wield Chi-abilities. This is a bit like saying that if you study the world without studying mysticism, you may be able to become the world's greatest scientist, but never a magician. Of course in the latter case, if you study both, you end up as Victor Von Doom.