torchwolf

Re: Multiform for Free? Frustrated.... That's probably why it said (both in 6E and 5ER): "In other words, the true form doesn’t have to be the most expensive of the character’s forms, and the relationship of the costs of the forms doesn’t affect Multiform’s cost. As always, the GM should monitor the situation to prevent abuse." I remember the 4th Ed clunkiness of it, though; noting "this can be abused" is the only reasonable way of doing it that I can think of without flat out forbidding some character concepts. Er, Captain Marvel and Billy Batson?

Re: 6e Discussion: Combat Values It seems the Character Abilities Guideline Table (6E1 p35) is nearly identical to 5ER; DEF and rDEF columns now have ranges instead of a number, and Standard Superhero minimum rDEF is now 12 instead of 10, but otherwise they are identical including CV. From your extensive analysis of the costs on this thread, it doesn't seem to correspond to how characters will actually look like in the future, though. *looking at mounds of conversion work* I appreciate your estimates on the probable CVs-to-come. That'll save me some experimenting, leaving me to re-envision the character concepts!

Re: 6E Cool Stuff Shout-Outs Amazing – I never thought I would be that impressed by the artwork in a Hero book! Also, very good layout and presentation. Utilitarian. Loved the very clear sections on “what to pay points for” in both 6E1 and 6E2! Expanded sections on PRE Attacks! All in all... Cool. I dared barely hope for it but it happened – much clearer than in Pulp Hero, too! Yeah, it's a stroke of genius! Much needed! Ooo, I read through much of the discussion behind this under the 6E threads... Actually, quite a few of the “Bash Hero!” threads on rpg.net seemed to have a big issue with this as well... something to do with the D&D formula. I guess d20ers will now like Hero better? Or not. All in all, Steve Long is

Re: Omcv 1? Fictional "Thieves' World"-type FH game example on the OMCV issue: Dendriel is a clever conman/rogue (INT 18, EGO 13, PRE 18, OMCV 1, DMCV 3). Barabian is a stupid barbarian (INT 8, EGO 13, PRE 15, OMCV 3, DMCV 3). Since the campaign features magic, the GM has decided to incorporate MCVs, and Dendriel's player has been allowed to buy down OMCV for his character based on the rationale that Dendriel is so focused on the physical world that he would not be able to grasp "mental accuracy" (after the GM rolled his eyes). The GM has also already stated that PCs may eventually develop magical abilities during the campaign. Later in the campaign, Dendriel manages to swindle a trader out of a magical ring - he has heard that the ring allows its wearer to compel people to do his will, provided the wearer turns it three times and spits over his shoulder three times (8d6 Mind Control, Gestures, Full Phase, mechanics known only to the GM). Dendriel tries it out several times but it never works. Barabian asks "Can I have pretty ring?", and buys (overpriced) it from Dendriel. He tries to imitate Dendriel, successfully activates it and manages to get Dendriel to give him all his money (high roll!). Barabian realizes he must have a real gift for magic and rushes off into the wilds to find his old tribal shaman to teach him! Naturally, Dendriel rushes after him to get his money back... I could see this happen.

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage In my games, it depended on character types and Speed; the higher Speed, the more Combat Skill Levels were used to increase damage.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #8: APG Goodies ...what to say...?

Re: Deathstroke module from 1983 Hi, Vigil, I did some looking. I thought rpgnow would have a copy since I bought some of that V&V stuff there too... strange. Well, there is this link: http://www.villainsandvigilantes.com/death-duel-destroyers and HERO stats: http://www.patric.net/morpheus/cast/legend/destroy.html [edit] and one for sale at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B001QNFRHG/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1247628636&sr=8-1&condition=all I also have a hardcopy if that doesn't help, or if I can help you in any way. greetings

Re: Marvel to HERO *apologizing for butting in* There are a number of problems with using those handbooks as a source for conversion to HERO; while the original OHOTMU corresponded reasonably well to what the characters could usually do in the comics, that was partly because Jim Shooter (then Editor-in-Chief) decided to make a serious effort at continuity (ehm, what it amounted to, anyway) and it was during this time that TSR got their stats from Marvel; actually, the Marvel RPG stats are reasonable in context when compared to each other. The Marvel SAGA RPG wasn't nearly as consistent... At writeup.org you can find over a thousand writeups that are based mainly on the comics themselves, and some are partly based on the Marvel RPG source material (usually for extrapolation of seldom-used abilities or insufficient data in the comics). Usually, doing a conversion from the writeup.org to HERO is a cinch compared to basing it off any "official" handbook from Marvel. If anyone's interested, I could collect my Marvel RPG <-> MEGS <-> HERO conversion notes and post them. Off hand: the figures on Hierax conversion document seems reasonably OK at the lower levels (though they don't correspond with mine, which are mostly lower) but Agility should not be used for SPD; Fighting should provide for this - it even determines the chance for making extra attacks in the Marvel RPG - as well as Overall or Combat Levels. Likewise, Popularity should be used for PRE. edit: AFAIK, the Marvel RPG character handbooks - MU-1 through MU-8 - are still available for download, and OCR scanned, at that. *butting out*

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD An excellent evolution of these Advantages. Steve Long himself already introduced ACV in Ultimate Mentalist (p77) - though this is naturally both revised and expanded; I suspected this would be done somewhere in 6E. It will be interesting to see how this connects with the Works Against [CHAR] Advantage/Limitation (UM, p65) which is built similarly but was mainly intended for variants on Entangle and Transform. ACV & AVAD also opens up the possibility of adding optional CHAR much easier; all you need is to define 2 new CVs that match the new (or existing) CHAR. Possibly you could also use this to inflict lethal damage on any CHAR other than BODY... which, in the interest of having more options, would actually be a good reason to reintroduce COM. 8 ways to die is better than 7... or is it just me... On a side note, I hope more text will be spent in defining the CHAR values comparative to "average human abilities", just to make it easier on new HERO gamers who want to get a baseline (especially now that Figureds went away). I can remember a brief such discussion in Champions III (the supplement) but have not seen anything like it collected in one place since (or have I missed it?). The benchmarks in 5ER are just values on a table, which are also inconsistent with 5ER CHAR breakpoints (i mean CV, ECV, Skill Roll bases, not PD/ED/etc). OK, it's GM's choice, campaign guidelines, character concept, etc., but a descriptive guideline is useful when you start up, even if you do what you want in this system.

Re: Alternative systems for mental powers You can also already push EGO for the purpose of breaking out of BOECV Entangles that work vs EGO, and your Breakout logic is consistent with that similar mechanic. Very cool. I think the cumulative part should be optional though. Related idea - Mental Stunning: If extra points of effect exceeds target's EGO, target is treated as Stunned, recovering normally (overwhelmed by mental shout, confusing illusions, etc.). Some options: Option 1: One step down Time Chart per +5 extra points of effect. This gives the same odds for Breakout Rolls (currently, Breakout Rolls are at -1 per +5 extra points of effect). Option 2: Comparing the Time Chart to the KO Recovery Chart might give another interval option if modified for Mental Powers; treating extra points of effect as guideline for the interval of Breakout.

Re: Fooling Telepathy Of course, using a Mental Transform, Self Only, could make the character who is altering his/her own mind act quite erratically, especially since the character would not want to remember having done such a thing, otherwise the telepathic intruder might find out. It would have to be pre-specified how the character "healed back" from the Transform. Then again, Telepathy doesn't automatically allow a telepath to know everything the target knows, just one fact per Phase (barring Autofire, Rapid Fire, etc.). Maybe the target just has to hide or change a few facts, depending on your character's paranoia level. Another possibility (though hardly the most effective): Mental Duplication (Altered Duplicate) + Invisibility to Telepathy/Mental Sense Group, only to hide original mind The most abusive would probably be to buy a Mental Multiform with Accidental Change (when mentally probed). As an option to any of the suggested constructs, the Personality Loss Limitation under Multiform might be applied, depending on how reliable an ability you want. Very interesting builds from all of you on this thread. Much kudos!

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I've read this thread all the way through but I still fail to understand: What is the big hang-up? Steve Long is obviously following through on the direction the Hero System has been going, however erratically: the definition in game terms of the relative in-game value of a game system which has already been tried and tested to be fully functional in several genres. As he stated already way back in the Dark Champions supplement Hudson City (original version); it is way easier to remove specific circumstances in a general environment. Those who want to put stuff back in can easily do so. Decoupling is the road to allowing everyone to design exactly the character they want. The evolution of this principle/idea is what interests me, and what makes me look forward to 6Ed. I think everyone here knows that the result will be an evolution of a system that already works well, not a substitute. Steve Long is an intelligent writer and designer; his lack of need for playtesting is because the system itself already works. Character design, clarifications and options are therefore likely the focus of most of the changes in 6Ed. If the cost for a given character changes, the cost will have to be readjusted according to the new costs. If you disagree with any specific cost or if you want to cost it the way it works currently, I fail to see a problem. I myself have no way of deciding if I will agree exactly to the definitions, costs, and changes that will soon be presented, but I will certainly consider them, because the Hero System has yet to fail me in the expectation that it will continue to evolve. Have some faith, Steve Long is a fan too - otherwise he'd be doing something else... ...much like all of us if we didn't care about this. Just saying, as far as I've seen,, it's all been about reducing elements to basics. Which I think is good, since you build from the ground up.

Re: Deathstroke module from 1983 As for the Deathstroke module I'm afraid I don't know of any better maps, but Death Duel with the Destroyers are available on rpgnow.com. Check out the FGU site on rpgnow - there are conversion guides available for Champions though I cannot momentarily recollect in which supplement they are included. Read the reviews, they will guide you. If you're just looking for a general base, there are other resources available, Hero System or otherwise, on rpgnow.com. Other, probably better designed resources are available on the Hero Games online website, all dependent on your level or desperation and cash available.

Re: Diviation From Called Shots (House Rule) Actually, NeoGames (of Sweden) published a game called Western a few years back that used exactly the mechanic you suggest. It should work pretty well in practice, depending on the level of accuracy you want. An old straight-bore gun would have an accuracy dependent on the precision qualities of both the cast of the bullets and the cast of the barrel of the gun, as well as how well the gun was cleaned before shooting (i.e., after a number of shots the accuracy would decline as well). The deviation of the bullet path from where you were actually aiming could easily be more than you suggested - you could count the deviation from a hit margin of 2 and up. Your deviation pattern would just as easily work with a series of concentric circles superimposed over the target silhouette - in that case it would automatically compensate for a target crouching/behind cover/prone/etc. You could also use similar target silhouettes for animals or other stuff.

Re: How long or short is a year? There are a lot of figures that have been done on the subject of the biosphere zone of various stars... basically if you have a yellow-white star (F), you get a longer possible year, with a yellow star (G, like Sol) you get around the same year as Earth, an orange one (K) a shorter year, a red one (M) the shortest. This also depends on the density of the atmosphere (longer possible year) and whether the planet is a planet or actually a moon orbiting a gas giant like Jupiter or Saturn. In that case you get some heat from the gas giant, too. In essence, if you want a year that long you might want to place it around a type F (yellow-white), as a satellite world to a large gas giant. Incidentally this will also probably give you the gas giant as an enormous moon in the sky even during the day, probably several other moons visible at night, and a spectrum tilted higher than Earth (toward the UV but quite close to Sol). If you are close to a gas giant you might experience large tide water effects, slightly more with more moons closeby. This will provide for more internal heat as the planet/moon contracts/expands with the tides (speculated to be happening with Saturn's moon Titan which is Earth-like in size). The star itself would probably not be too much larger than Sol.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far This also means that 10+ pages of these arguments were just speculation proved unfounded. Having the same starting bases means its even easier for anyone to use/reverse-engineer/build to 5ER or even BBB (or Hero System Rulebook if anyone remembers that one). cool.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Re: and Interaction Skills: These are viable subjects - effects of , PRE, etc. on Interactions Skills and PRE Attacks - but they be best served if expanded on under another thread? I'm game, but this is getting long for this thread.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far That's exactly how I used it for more than 10 years... the "first impression" effect, and the old Star Trek "Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations"... "eh, well, someone oughta like Grace Jones, too".

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Instant Change is probably done with Transform to conform to existing mechanics. Sure, it could have been done with Images, Shape Change, or others, but with Transform, your clothes are in fact actually changed. I didn't like it at first, but it actually makes more sense than having a Power that only does a single thing. On the other hand, Transform has been pulling a very heavy load for quite some time (ever since 4th Ed). We'll see what's been done in 6E, maybe that's a reason for a couple new Powers. Previous editions of characters: All that really matters is the difference in costs. If you want to build Characteristics the current way (including coupled Figured and/or keeping the unnamed one), all you need to do is do it that way. If you want to use older-edition characters, what will matter most, is the cost difference (for comparison of power levels etc.). Characteristics are modular enough that you can use either version without it impacting on the rest of the game system. From what I've seen so far, everyone can still use the 90-95% of 6E which will be everything apart from the Characteristics section without imbalancing anything but the new costs for Characteristics. Assuming, of course, that everything else is not re-costed significantly, but since STR is supposed to add the same way I don't see that coming.

Re: STR Adding to HKA's Still, adding damage is not necessarily restricted to STR. If you put a Mental Entangle (BOECV, Works vs EGO instead of BODY, Cannot Form Barriers) on someone, you use EGO to break out instead of STR. This costs END, and EGO can even be Pushed for this purpose. Using the same line of reasoning, you could build an EGO Attack (EGO Adds To Damage). In the HERO system STR adds to HA and HKA. However, many other game systems separate the two and just establish a STR (and/or DEX) minimum to do "basic weapon damage", or just establish a "damage bonus" or whatnot to represent the addition of force from STR. STR does not necessarily add to HA or HKA, but is a fathomable and less abstract representation of reality when it comes to the effects of how force is applied to tools which are applied to affect the environment. Not that that solves anything ruleswise.

Re: Naming the baby 6 of 9?

Re: Hero Philosophy - SPEED I stand corrected, having missed that Optional Rule (have 5ER in PDF only). Thank you for pointing that out. This probably also means I finally have to relent and print the whole shebang out... (goes off to figure the Speed and Charges of my poor printer)

Re: Hero Philosophy - SPEED Personally, I think the Speed Chart works just fine, and several of my players have tried to convince other GMs to use it in other systems where multiple actions are an issue (especially the infamous Shadowrun systems), but there are a few annoying consequences, like the Move-Through and Move-By. Velocity per Turn is still a character's _actual_ velocity, and it should not in effect become lower per phase the higher your Speed gets, which is what happens if you base Grab-By/Move-By/Move-Through damage/effects/modifiers on Move per Phase. If you change one you should change the others. Unfortunately, this gives Grab-By and Move-By an advantage, since they just benefit the higher velocity gets. The simplest solution is to leave it be and just worry about it in specifically important situations and calculate the character's current velocity in the segment it applies to an action. Otherwise, dividing Move-Through damage based on velocity per Turn by 4 seems reasonable, but how would this apply to Grab-By and Move-By? I am very curious about how this would work, given the current rules' disregard for actual velocity (even Ultimate Speedster only considers velocity effects based on Move/Phase).

Re: Hero Philosophy - SPEED Yet Another Combat Chart: Impulse action system for HERO System (10 Impulses per second) _______________________Impulse Cost__________ SPD__Seconds / Phase____Full Phase__Half Phase__Phases per 12 seconds 1____12 seconds_________120_______60_________1 2____6 seconds___________60_______30_________2 3____4 seconds___________40_______20_________3 4____3 seconds___________30_______15_________4 5____2.4 seconds_________24_______12_________5 6____2 seconds___________20_______10_________6 7____1.714 seconds_______17________9 (8.5)_____7.059 [6.667] 8____1.5 seconds_________15________8 (7.5)_____8 [7.5] 9____1.333 seconds_______13________7 (6.5)_____9.231 [8.571] 10___1.2 seconds_________12________6_________10 11___1.091 seconds_______11________6 (5.5)____10.909 [10] 12___1 second___________10________5__________12 Speeds above SPD 12: 13___0.923 seconds_______9_________5 (4.5)____13.333 [12] 14___0.857 seconds_______8_________4_________15 15___0.8 seconds_________7_________4 (3.5)____17.143 [15] 16___0.75 seconds________6_________3_________20 17___0.706 seconds_______5_________3 (2.5)____24 [20] 18___0.667 seconds_______4_________2_________30 19___0.632 seconds_______3_________2 (1.5)____40 [30] 20___0.6 seconds_________2_________1_________60 Seconds / Phase: * The current Speed Chart would translate like this into seconds per Phase. As you can see the Impulse Cost is derived from this. Impulse Cost: * The number of Impulses required before the character can take another action (unless aborting). Effects of an action are considered to apply 1 Impulse after it is initiated (i.e., an attack started on Impulse 57 would hit/take effect on Impulse 58); this is also true for actions which are aborted to or uses a held action (i.e., a character who notices the attack started in Impulse 57 aborts to dodging, and would be considered to be dodging in Impulse 58). This also apply to 0-Phase actions. * If a character aborts to an action, the number of Impulses before he can take another action is counted from the Impulse of his last action; use the Impulse Cost for a Full Phase. * If a character holds an action, the interval changes from the point the character does decide to take the action (this will also take effect 1 Impulse after the action is initiated; the character's next action will be calculated from 1 Impulse after his action, whenever it takes place). * Post-Segment 12 Recoveries now occur Post-Impulse 120 instead (alternatively, you can proportionate REC over all 120 Impulses, or you may want to assign Post-Impulse 120 Recoveries to Post-Impulse 100 instead. This would only increase the efficiency of REC by 17 percent, and 100, 200, 300 might be easier to remember than 120, 240, 360, etc.). * Values in parenthesis for half-phases are given in case you prefer using fractions for greater exactness (easier if you use a spreadsheet to map the combat order). EXCEPTION: Any actions requiring an extra segment are considered to take effect after (Impulses equal half of the Impulse Cost of the action, rounded up) after it is initiated. VARIANT: A GM may prefer to have a declared action occur at some other point than the next Impulse. If so, consider that an action should occur at some point within half the Impulses listed (as per Full or Half Phase actions); otherwise, the time flow becomes imbalanced unless you also alter the Impulse Costs (and also alter the exception for extra-segment actions). Phases per 12 seconds: * This is what a character's relative Speed would be using the HERO System Speed Chart. * Values in brackets are the effective Speeds of characters using the rounded-off values for Half-Phases. Speeds above 12: * As you can see on the chart, this system breaks down progressively when trying to represent Speeds above 13. The only way around this that I can think of is by using fractions. You can work it out yourself if you need it (if anyone's interested I can post it). NOTE: In any case, many actions (especially those which are primarily Movement Actions) are considered to occur simultaneously with Attack actions; the Phase system in the current rules are simply a way of managing how much a character can accomplish in a given time as well as representing his reaction speed. NOTE 2: This system is NOT playtested in full. Use at your own risk without testing it first. Considerations of using this system instead of the Speed Chart: Pros: 1)You don't need a Speed Chart. 2)You can track combat continuously using real time units instead of breaking it up into game units. Theoretically, this allows for a greater sense of “flow” during combat. There are no Turns, nor Phases (except for administering actions). 3)You can integrate this with segmented movement (each 10 Impulses, a character moves as far as he would during 1 segment). 4)This system represents reasonably closely how much a character can accomplish in a given time using the current Speed Chart; you can use this without converting characters – all that is needed is listing the Impulse Costs for a given Speed. Cons: 1)You probably need a Combat Record Sheet listing a lot of Impulses (possibly 1000 or more). This will likely slow down combat unless you are using a spreadsheet or similar. 2)The problem of characters with a high speed “front-loading” several actions is not resolved (that is, fast characters taking several actions in a row without slower ones having a chance to take one), though the use of held actions will tend to alleviate this. 3)Speeds above 12 (especially above 15) are not well represented using this system. Also, characters with speeds above 12 gain an increasing disadvantage since the 1-Impulse delay affect them more. pdf below includes above (correctly formatted), 3 variant Impulse Cost charts, plus an appendix cheat-sheet for using segmented movement.

Re: I know what you are getting for Christmas (I've felt your presence) D'uh! Should have read this thread before I posted my notes on PRE Attacks, under Rules Question: variant types of damage? http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72869