Partially Improved Powers

[iamlibertarian]

I am going brain dead and need some help.

Picture a character who has a power natural to them, say, Magic, but has an amulet or wand (Focus) that boosts that power. S/he can still cast the spells without the amulet, say, 5D6 Magic Blast, but with the amulet all the powers are more powerful, like an 8D6 blast. I am looking to avoid all the math and time calculations that would come with the use of an AID spell,

Oh, before we go further, I like VPPs. Linking parts of a compound power in a VPP does not make Hero Designer very happy, lol.

DC

[dougmacd]

Just slap a limitation on the difference:

 

25 Natural Magic 5d6 Blast

10 Empowered Magic +3d6 Blast (8d6 Total), OAF: Amulet (-½)

 

In a power framework, these would go in the same slot.

 

 

Doug

[iamlibertarian]

25 minutes ago, dougmacd said:

Just slap a limitation on the difference:

 

25 Natural Magic 5d6 Blast

10 Empowered Magic +3d6 Blast (8d6 Total), OAF: Amulet (-½)

 

In a power framework, these would go in the same slot.

 

 

Doug

Thanks Doug, I knew it had to be something simple like that, but like I said, brain dead, lol. But using Hero Designer, does that mean build it as a Compound Power to put it in the same slot?

 

And to be extra sure, if the Amulet goes missing, the rest of the power still functions normally?

What about something a little more complex, like Summon or Multiform? I guess it would be the same, built as Multiform 100 points plus Multiform 100 points, OAF: Amulet (-1/2) for 200 points of Multiform if the amulet is available.

 

One last question, I hope! What if it is the VPP itself? Character can cast spells on his own (VPP 100 Pool 100 Control) but with an Amulet his powers are increased (+50 Pool, +50 Control). How would you build that? (In Designer).

 

Thanks! DC

 

EDIT: Nevermind. Took me a minute but I figured out how to put two joined VPPs into a Compound Power, and that compound power allows compound powers within it lol. Thanks again.

Edited March 26, 2021 by iamlibertarian
Clarification

[iamlibertarian]

Actually, it doesn't work. At least not in Hero Designer. You can't do, say, two halves of the VPP itself into a Compound Power. On paper you can do whatever you want, but Designer simply won't let you. I am going to make this into a new topic.

[Greywind]

Designer will let you do what is legal by RAW. Simon designed it that way.

[iamlibertarian]

8 minutes ago, Greywind said:

Designer will let you do what is legal by RAW. Simon designed it that way.

I know that is the intent, but...

I just asked in a new topic as well, but since you're 'here,'...  How do you partially limit a VPP? Spell Caster can use a 50 Pool, 50 Control VPP on his own. But with an inherited OAF staff, increases his Pool and Control by another 50 pts each. Is this not allowed by RAW? I can't find anywhere it says you can't, and I believe there are lots of fictionally historical examples of magic users increasing both raw power and ability to cast a greater variety of spells at a time using magic items.

[Duke Bushido]

3 hours ago, dougmacd said:

Just slap a limitation on the difference:

 

 

Yep.

 

That's the time-tested solution.  The speedster in the youth group has that very same thing.  Her shtick is that kinetic energy is drawn to her; she stores and manipulates it.  Her suit is specially designed to increase her ability to draw and store it, and lets her use it more effectively.

 

The build, roughly, is that she has a bit of ground flying (the speedy power) that draws from an END pool with a very low recovery.

 

The suit triples the recovery and doubles the pool.  It also adds more movement and three more NCM and allows the character a die of  absorption versus PD.

 

She is not powwrleas without the suit, but she's a lot more powerful with it.

 

 

 

[Ninja-Bear]

20 hours ago, iamlibertarian said:

I know that is the intent, but...

I just asked in a new topic as well, but since you're 'here,'...  How do you partially limit a VPP? Spell Caster can use a 50 Pool, 50 Control VPP on his own. But with an inherited OAF staff, increases his Pool and Control by another 50 pts each. Is this not allowed by RAW? I can't find anywhere it says you can't, and I believe there are lots of fictionally historical examples of magic users increasing both raw power and ability to cast a greater variety of spells at a time using magic items.

Well I’m not the king of VPPs but considering you want simple. How about two VPPs? One for the natural and one to represent the magic Foci and have them add together? I know that may not be “legal” but the saving in math headache should be worth it.

[iamlibertarian]

If I wasn't working in Designer, that would be easy enough, and I did think of it. But the reason it doesn't work in designer, as a simple example:

 

Single 100 Control 100 Pool VPP

   Slot 1)   Blast 20d6 (100 AP 100 RP)

   No problem

 

Two 50 Control 50 Pool VPP, one "normal" and one with a Focus Lim:

   Try to slot 1) Blast 20d6 into one or the other and Designer won't let you because both the AP and RP are greater than either VPP will allow.
  I suppose I could create two Blasts 10d6 (and make half power versions of every Power I want the character to have) each and put one into each VPP and designate that they always go off together? Sounds like a lot of work, but I guess it could be done.

Half the reason I like VPPs is how easy they are (other than this issue).

Thanks!

DC

[Hugh Neilson]

One 75 point VPP. 

 

The Control Cost is 50 AP/2 = 25; plus

   50 AP/2, OAF Staff = 12.

 

10d6 Blast + 10d6 Blast, OAF Staff is 75 real points, which covers the full VPP.

 

Note that this does not work pre-6e when the Control Cost was tied to the total points in the Pool.  Removal of that link was, IMO, a huge 6e improvement.

[iamlibertarian]

16 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

One 75 point VPP. 

 

The Control Cost is 50 AP/2 = 25; plus

   50 AP/2, OAF Staff = 12.

 

10d6 Blast + 10d6 Blast, OAF Staff is 75 real points, which covers the full VPP.

 

Note that this does not work pre-6e when the Control Cost was tied to the total points in the Pool.  Removal of that link was, IMO, a huge 6e improvement.

DOH! I wasn't factoring in the the staff/focus into the power/blast. Thanks!

[iamlibertarian]

18 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

One 75 point VPP. 

 

The Control Cost is 50 AP/2 = 25; plus

   50 AP/2, OAF Staff = 12.

 

10d6 Blast + 10d6 Blast, OAF Staff is 75 real points, which covers the full VPP.

 

Note that this does not work pre-6e when the Control Cost was tied to the total points in the Pool.  Removal of that link was, IMO, a huge 6e improvement.

Wait! I am only half awake, lol. What I was looking to do was -partially- limit the VPP itself, the same way you can do to an individual power, in order to also bring down the cost of the VPP. 

Ex: Dr. Magic has his own VPP naturally from training and experience. 50 Control and 50 pool. But his OAF Staff adds to his VPP another 50 points to both Control and Pool. He can cast from his VPP without the staff, but at lower powered Spells than if he had his Staff.

DC

[Hugh Neilson]

Nothing ever reduces the cost of the pool.  Nothing. Ever.

 

A 75 point pool always costs 75 points.

 

Note, however, that a 100 point VPP with a control cost for 100 AP powers would cost 150 points.

 

The cost for the 75 point pool, 50 AP powers + 50 AP OAF Staff is 75 + 25 + 12 = 112 points.

 

That's the same as a 50 point pool with 50 AP powers (75 points) + half that cost again (37 points), so the OAF Staff is effectively halving the cost of the additional 50 point VPP.

 

Without the staff, this character would have a fully-accessible 50 point pool, with powers max'ed out at 50 AP.  He would, however, have access to the additional 25 points in the Pool.  He could have, say, 3-25 point powers in the Pool with no Staff. 

 

from 6ev1p409

Quote

Characters never apply Advantages or Limitations to the Pool cost; it always remains unmodified.

 

Now, if the character were instead buying a Multipower, it could be:

 

50 point MP Pool + 50 points OAF Staff (75 points)

With each Slot being X AP Power + X AP OAF Staff, for a potential slot cost of up to 7 points (fixed slot) or 15 (variable slot).

 

Of course, the VPP comes with additional restrictions.  A Multipower is effectively a Cosmic VPP with predefined powers.  If we made StaffMaster's VPP Cosmic, it would cost:

 - 75 points for the pool, plus

 - 50 AP Control/2 x 3 = 75;  plus

 - 50 AP/ 2x 3, OAF Staff = 37, for a total cost of 187 points.

 

If, instead, he bought a Multipower, the pool would cost 50 + 50/2, so 75. 

 

A max power Fixed slot would cost 7, and a max power Variable slot would cost 15.  So he would break even with 16 fixed slots or about 7.5 variable slots.

 

Given the VPP provides infinite slots, all variable, I would not feel sorry for the character being capped at 50 Real Points in the VPP without the staff, rather than 75 Real Points.

 

Not even remotely sorry.

 

But if you are less hard-hearted than me, you could, I suppose, tack on a further -1/4 limitation to the +50 AP control cost for the Staff, or even a very generous -1/2, and reduce the cost of the VPP by 1 or 2 points respectively.  Actually, I am becoming soft in my old age, but I suppose letting him have a whopping 2 point benefit for losing access to 25 real points when the staff is not available (not if, when) feels reasonable, as he is more limited than if he could still access those 25 real points for other powers.

 

[LoneWolf]

I think the problem he is having is getting Hero Designer to accept the partially limited control cost

 

One way to force it in would be to use a negative adder to modify the cost.   That would mean that you need to create all powers as compound powers.   Add in a negative adder to the pool equal to the points the limitation save you.  So if you have a 100 point pool but 50 point of it requires an OIF put in a -9 point adder on the pool.  Just make sure when you add powers in the pool to make sure to apply the limitation to the second half. 
 

[Hugh Neilson]

If the SW can't emulate the rules, the issue is the SW.  I'd brute force it like LoneWolf and show the computation in the power description.  But I do my character sheets on Excel these days (combined with a .pdf sheet for in play, if there's a good fillable .pdf option like D&D or Pathfinder sheets).

[iamlibertarian]

15 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

Nothing ever reduces the cost of the pool.  Nothing. Ever.

 

A 75 point pool always costs 75 points.

 

DC: Agreed. Though for me it isn't even really about the cost itself, as much as it is the concept. Dr. Mysterio blasts his ways through the front lines of the demon hordes; his staff of mystery flaring brightly each time he cuts a swath through the enemy forces. But alas, there are too many of them, and they swarm Dr. Mysterio and beat him senseless and capture him. They take away his staff and other equipment. Little do they know that he has a little power of his own. When he wakes, he transforms into a very dense and strong fly, and escapes his cage, flies around until he finds his equipment, overhear's the leader's plans, and flies out to rejoin the group and inform them of the plans.

 

Quote

 

Note, however, that a 100 point VPP with a control cost for 100 AP powers would cost 150 points.

 

The cost for the 75 point pool, 50 AP powers + 50 AP OAF Staff is 75 + 25 + 12 = 112 points.

 

That's the same as a 50 point pool with 50 AP powers (75 points) + half that cost again (37 points), so the OAF Staff is effectively halving the cost of the additional 50 point VPP.

 

Without the staff, this character would have a fully-accessible 50 point pool, with powers max'ed out at 50 AP.  He would, however, have access to the additional 25 points in the Pool.  He could have, say, 3-25 point powers in the Pool with no Staff. 

 

That's great. Makes perfect sense. On paper. Now how do you fit that "+" into Designer? It doesn't allow you to add the +50 AP Powers in a Compound Power to the VPP, so no access to, say, a 60AP power. Same happens if I create a Custom Power in Designer to add a focus to a now partially limited VPP. It doesn't actually -Add- to the VPP in designer. Super easy on paper though. But when you have a list of powers and other calculations, it is nice to have Designer do all the legwork AND store the character securely for you.

 

Quote

from 6ev1p409

 

Now, if the character were instead buying a Multipower, it could be:

 

50 point MP Pool + 50 points OAF Staff (75 points)

With each Slot being X AP Power + X AP OAF Staff, for a potential slot cost of up to 7 points (fixed slot) or 15 (variable slot).

 

Again, I can't find a way to do this in Designer.

 

Quote

Of course, the VPP comes with additional restrictions.  A Multipower is effectively a Cosmic VPP with predefined powers.  If we made StaffMaster's VPP Cosmic, it would cost:

 - 75 points for the pool, plus

 - 50 AP Control/2 x 3 = 75;  plus

 - 50 AP/ 2x 3, OAF Staff = 37, for a total cost of 187 points.

 

If, instead, he bought a Multipower, the pool would cost 50 + 50/2, so 75. 

 

A max power Fixed slot would cost 7, and a max power Variable slot would cost 15.  So he would break even with 16 fixed slots or about 7.5 variable slots.

 

Given the VPP provides infinite slots, all variable, I would not feel sorry for the character being capped at 50 Real Points in the VPP without the staff, rather than 75 Real Points.

 

Not even remotely sorry.

 

That's cool for you, based on the power levels you play/gm at. For me that's fine as well...just cut the numbers I originally gave in half. I used nice round numbers for ease. It is the Concept I am after, a partially limited VPP and being able to find a way to do it in Designer.

DC

Quote

 

But if you are less hard-hearted than me, you could, I suppose, tack on a further -1/4 limitation to the +50 AP control cost for the Staff, or even a very generous -1/2, and reduce the cost of the VPP by 1 or 2 points respectively.  Actually, I am becoming soft in my old age, but I suppose letting him have a whopping 2 point benefit for losing access to 25 real points when the staff is not available (not if, when) feels reasonable, as he is more limited than if he could still access those 25 real points for other powers.

 

 

I *love* it when the Limitations or Disads become part of the story. Makes it more like I am in a superhero Movie

[iamlibertarian]

15 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

I think the problem he is having is getting Hero Designer to accept the partially limited control cost

 

One way to force it in would be to use a negative adder to modify the cost.   That would mean that you need to create all powers as compound powers.   Add in a negative adder to the pool equal to the points the limitation save you.  So if you have a 100 point pool but 50 point of it requires an OIF put in a -9 point adder on the pool.  Just make sure when you add powers in the pool to make sure to apply the limitation to the second half. 
 

I do love the idea. The one problem for Me (I am lazy) is the additional work on each and every power, and then the math each time I adjust the VPP either with XP or with an Aid (he is a mage afterall, lol). The thing I love about Designer is the Ease.

 

My character could have a Schtick. Base Power + Partially Limited power in a Compound Power. Powers 2, 3, and 4 could have the same Schtick: copy and paste modifiers across all powers, boom, done. Eventually spend CP to remove one Lim on all the powers in that Schtick? Quick and easy and I don't do the math, Designer does.

 

The AID for example: I use Designer to PRE create "spells" at a slightly higher power level (by creating a Separate .hdc file with the higher powered VPP and slots, so as not to slow down the game. For that matter, while most powers can be used at less than their full power, that fully powered "spell" still chews up a lot of the Control Cost. So in that same separate VPP file I also create Lower powered versions of the spells, which can be quickly slotted using up less of the available control cost. Ex: VPP 100/100 (for ease) one 20d6 Blast, sure I can blast away using only 10d6 of the blast, so as not to kill the target. But I am still using up the entire 100AP to do so. Or, I can switch out to a 10d6 Blast, use up 50 AP of the available control, and also slot a 50AP entangle. I LOVE DESIGNER! Except for this one problem I am having.

[iamlibertarian]

15 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

If the SW can't emulate the rules, the issue is the SW.  I'd brute force it like LoneWolf and show the computation in the power description.  But I do my character sheets on Excel these days (combined with a .pdf sheet for in play, if there's a good fillable .pdf option like D&D or Pathfinder sheets).

I agree, it can be brute forced. But see my response to LoneWolf about why I like Designer for its ease. Though in the case of Summon or Multiform or Shapeshift or Transform or Vehicles or Bases or the like, I LOVE using PDFs. Print it out and Boom, done

 

Though I could, I suppose, switch to Excel. Master Manipulation of Excel used to be in my wheelhouse, since I used to be an Executive Assistant to a high muckety muck, but that was a lifetime ago.

[iamlibertarian]

On 3/27/2021 at 11:34 AM, Ninja-Bear said:

Well I’m not the king of VPPs but considering you want simple. How about two VPPs? One for the natural and one to represent the magic Foci and have them add together? I know that may not be “legal” but the saving in math headache should be worth it.

 AHA! Love it! Better yet, create a separate "character" (i.e. VPP .hdc) to contain the actual powers which can fit into the VPP at the improved level, but in the main character, create an EMPTY VPP using the *costs* of what it VPP would be if partially limited. That way Designer still does all the legwork, but the true costs are maintained in the actual character sheet. That way I only have to do the math Once.

 

DC :):)

[Hugh Neilson]

7 hours ago, iamlibertarian said:

 

That's great. Makes perfect sense. On paper. Now how do you fit that "+" into Designer? It doesn't allow you to add the +50 AP Powers in a Compound Power to the VPP, so no access to, say, a 60AP power. Same happens if I create a Custom Power in Designer to add a focus to a now partially limited VPP. It doesn't actually -Add- to the VPP in designer. Super easy on paper though. But when you have a list of powers and other calculations, it is nice to have Designer do all the legwork AND store the character securely for you.

Again, I can't find a way to do this in Designer.

 

Gosh, if only there were a forum specifically for questions about Hero Designer, where the actual programmer answered questions.  🤨

 

Given we now have a build we believe works, and we believe is RAW-legal, maybe asking how to make a partially limited Control Cost in Hero Designer would be a good question to ask on the Hero Designer page itself. 

 

OK, I asked.

 

 

[LoneWolf]

If you are using hero designer you are going to have to use a compound power regardless of if it is in a framework or not.  As long as the number for your pool and the  control cost are accurate Hero designer will allow it to be put in the VPP.  About the only thing it will not do is to automatically apply the extra limitation on the power.  So if you are using a 20d6 blast start with the compound power add a 10d6 blast, then add another 10d6 blast with the focus limitation.   The negative adder is only needed to adjust the cost of the VPP itself.  

 

You don’t really have that much of a problem if you are willing to take an extra few seconds creating a spell.  To me that is a lot easier then creating two separate files.  
 

[iamlibertarian]

8 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

If you are using hero designer you are going to have to use a compound power regardless of if it is in a framework or not.

 

DC: That's the problem, Designer does *not* allow Frameworks to be compound powers. I have tried multiple times.

 

 As long as the number for your pool and the  control cost are accurate Hero designer will allow it to be put in the VPP.  About the only thing it will not do is to automatically apply the extra limitation on the power.  So if you are using a 20d6 blast start with the compound power add a 10d6 blast, then add another 10d6 blast with the focus limitation.   The negative adder is only needed to adjust the cost of the VPP itself.

DC: I have no problem putting individual Powers into a Compound Power. But I am trying to make a Partially Limited VPP itself. Ex: Pool 50, Control 50, is the casters Natural Ability, but also has a Staff that increases the VPP itself by another Pool 50, Control 50, for a total VPP of 100/100. I only used the Blast example as why I could not simply make two different VPPs, one 'normal' and one OAF, and then put that blast into only one of them.

I *wish* I could make a Compound Framework with part of the VPP Limited by a focus. It would make all this so much easier. 

 

8 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

 

You don’t really have that much of a problem if you are willing to take an extra few seconds creating a spell.  To me that is a lot easier then creating two separate files.  

DC: Nah, it took me seconds to make the VPP itself within the actual character file, then copy and paste it to the other file. After that, I only have to create the powers once each in the 2nd file.
 

 

8 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

Gosh, if only there were a forum specifically for questions about Hero Designer, where the actual programmer answered questions.  🤨

 

DC: Well, I wanted to make sure it Was RAW-legal before I went that route, but thanks for doing it for me :):)

 

 

 

[unclevlad]

The system says you can't join powers from 2 frameworks.  Period.  

 

What would work is something like this:

 

VPP:  Pool size 75, Control Cost 100

VPP only modifier:  Must use OAF Staff, or pool is restricted to 50/50.  I'd call this -1/2, but it might depend on the campaign, and how often you're exceeding 50 points.  It might only be -1/4.  It'd never be more than -1/2 because it's only applying to half the pool.  

 

So you buy the whole pool and take a *lesser* limitation on the whole thing, describing that part that's the staff only.  The spells with the staff gain OAF on *that* part, so, yes, everything has to be defined technically as a compound power.  There's an implicit -0 Limitation that the staff's component has to match the core pool's component, with the exception of END.  I think the staff should have an END Bat, and when you use the staff, it's drawing from that.  So you can do 1/2 END from personal END and full END from the staff.

 

Also:  when you build a true compound attack like, say, a 8d6 Blast and 8d6 Flash, nominally they have to be split, but I don't have a big problem with saying...ok, it's 80 active;  I want 40 from me @ 1/2 END, for 50 total, and 40 from the staff at full END.

 

Note that, unless you're buying No Skill Roll (and doing so would have to cover the entire 100 point control cost)...the skill roll's at -9.  Oh, and if you try to buy skill levels with OAF Staff?  The VPP limitation is almost certainly going down to -1/4.

[iamlibertarian]

10 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

The system says you can't join powers from 2 frameworks.  Period.  

 

I don't really Want it to be 2 frameworks. Every single thing else in the Hero System can be partially limited, so why not a VPP? 6E doesn't rule it out, so I think Designer should be adapted to handle it?

 

From a Comic Story standpoint: Joe Magus can naturally cast spells like a young and less powerful Dr. Strange, handled by Hero System as a magic VPP. 50/50 Pool/Control. Joe's Master gives him a gift of an OAF Staff that increases his natural magical talent (handled by Hero System boost to his natural talent (adding directly to the VPP another 50/50 Real Points to the Pool/ Active Points to the Control). I may be biased, but this seems reasonable to me, and I can find nowhere in RAW that this is not legal.

 

10 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

What would work is something like this:

 

VPP:  Pool size 75, Control Cost 100

VPP only modifier:  Must use OAF Staff, or pool is restricted to 50/50.  I'd call this -1/2, but it might depend on the campaign, and how often you're exceeding 50 points.  It might only be -1/4.  It'd never be more than -1/2 because it's only applying to half the pool.  

 

He would be exceeding 50 points most of the time...the extra points were gifted to him so that his power level would increase.

 

10 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

So you buy the whole pool and take a *lesser* limitation on the whole thing, describing that part that's the staff only.  The spells with the staff gain OAF on *that* part, so, yes, everything has to be defined technically as a compound power.  There's an implicit -0 Limitation that the staff's component has to match the core pool's component, with the exception of END.  I think the staff should have an END Bat, and when you use the staff, it's drawing from that.  So you can do 1/2 END from personal END and full END from the staff.

 

It's a personal thing specifically: I hate END batteries because that is just one more thing to track. I often by powers for a character either on Charges or at Reduced END 0 not for the END Savings or the power boost, but just specifically so that I have one less thing to track, lol.

 

10 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

Also:  when you build a true compound attack like, say, a 8d6 Blast and 8d6 Flash, nominally they have to be split, but I don't have a big problem with saying...ok, it's 80 active;  I want 40 from me @ 1/2 END, for 50 total, and 40 from the staff at full END.

 

Note that, unless you're buying No Skill Roll (and doing so would have to cover the entire 100 point control cost)...the skill roll's at -9.  Oh, and if you try to buy skill levels with OAF Staff?  The VPP limitation is almost certainly going down to -1/4.

 

As lazy as I am, I often buy things with no skill roll, and have no problem with or disagreement with you on it being on the entire 100 points. But I also often pay the extra to make it a Characteristic Roll, if I want that Lim.

 

Again, I think that Designer should simply be made to have the Frameworks to be able to be Partially Limited, in a Compound, like everything else can be.

[unclevlad]

I wasn't saying Skill Roll to activate;  the VPP will require the skill roll to change slots, unless you're paying the +1 advantage to eliminate it.

 

I would be very averse to letting you have a plain Characteristic Roll that wasn't subject to an active point modifier, when you're tossing around powers of this size.  Skill roll at -1 per 20 points would still be at -4 or -5, and you only get -1/4 for that.  That'll still call for a decently pricey skill to earn that limitation, so I seriously doubt a plain Characteristic Roll would be worth anything.

 

Why not 2 VPPs?  Because many of us can turn that into something truly, tremendously ugly...and what you're trying to do is a really good start because you're trying to get the actual pool size down (common modifier:  OAF staff cuts the pool size in half) and the control cost as well.  There would be other ways.  Plus, it's trying to manipulate the skill roll rules, as the pools are easier to roll because they're smaller.  And push comes to shove:  the LImited Power limitation I built *is* effectively expressing 2 joined VPPs.

 

Honestly:  I suspect many of us view the staff as nothing more than SFX to increase your pool size, and thus is worth NO limitation whatsoever.  If you're looking at fantasy/comics?  That is all it is;  how often does the staff get taken away?  90% of Green Lantern's power is the power ring;  even as OIF, how often is it at risk of being lost?  The 24 hour limit?  Only when the writer wants to add fake worry, or put GL into a dangerous position for a bit.