Old Man Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 (thread necro) Gizmodo has reviewed a preprint of the upcoming Marvel TTRPG. Tl;dr: The ruleset is long on combat crunch and short on roleplaying and storytelling (to the point of calling it an "arena game"). It's not a positive review. Scott Ruggels and Joe Walsh 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjack Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 This is more about them out there than us in here. “Is calling it an Arena Game really a bad thing for them?” For a very long time I’ve been noticing/complaining to friends about/ranting about the glacier slow change from games that were about interacting with friends around a table pizza & beer style with a game that had human (Elf, Orc, Dragon, Alien, etc.) emotional responses built into it. From the first time someone tried to get me interested in World of Warcraft, I looked at it and said “I go gaming to be with people.” Talking through a headset to strangers and thinking it’s a relationship is like calling the people on FaceBook your friends. I had seen Magic:The Gathering start to come up but everyone still had to sit around the same table for it back then. All I see now are new ways to keep yourself amused while you’re alone at home. Even what’s called RPG’s now like Arkham Asylum contain no actual roleplay. Only chasing around on a preplanned story you can only win or lose at. Try having your Batman call a temporary truce with Penguin and Two-Face so the three of you can go after the Joker. It can’t be done. The human element has been eliminated. Marvel’s new game could do very well with players who only want to match up stats and not have to/get to portray the characters they are representing. I feel like a dinosaur looking up at the pretty comet about to hit and wondering how much time there is left. Joe Walsh, Christopher R Taylor, Spence and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Old Man said: (thread necro) Gizmodo has reviewed a preprint of the upcoming Marvel TTRPG. Tl;dr: The ruleset is long on combat crunch and short on roleplaying and storytelling (to the point of calling it an "arena game"). It's not a positive review. Well the author tells us that it is an incomplete rule book that he is given. So I find that his assessment questionable. Scott Ruggels 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted April 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 It's not a proper rpg unless it has a new character generation system so I don't expect much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormraven Posted April 28, 2022 Report Share Posted April 28, 2022 I have the playtest. You can generate characters of your own design. Obviously, being a playtest, it's incomplete. It's a little fiddly and I don't fully agree with all the choices - and I haven't read it thoroughly enough yet to fully grok it - but I'm cautiously optimistic. I could see using it to play What If in the Marvel Universe so you can get the same feel. Ninja-Bear and Old Man 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormraven Posted May 1, 2022 Report Share Posted May 1, 2022 Been looking at it more. There are some elements of what could be a decent, fast-paced game. Of course, having spent so long with effects based rules, it's a little tough getting back into picking from lists, and the game is definitely very heavily combat centred. Overall, I'll keep an eye on it, and it may wind up in my RPG collection. Scott Ruggels 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted May 1, 2022 Report Share Posted May 1, 2022 On 4/22/2022 at 11:08 AM, Tjack said: This is more about them out there than us in here. “Is calling it an Arena Game really a bad thing for them?” For a very long time I’ve been noticing/complaining to friends about/ranting about the glacier slow change from games that were about interacting with friends around a table pizza & beer style with a game that had human (Elf, Orc, Dragon, Alien, etc.) emotional responses built into it. ---snip--- My opinion for years is that computer/console RPGs are not actually RPG's. They are closed event games with lots o pretty eye candy. You can do nothing in a "CRPG" that hasn't already been thought of and specifically programmed in. Even the "open world sand box" CRPG's are limited. An RPG needs a human to be actively running the game and human players to be actively playing the PC's. I do find it amusing that they are calling it an Arena Game because it is long on combat and short on non-combat Role Playing because that is exactly what Hero is. Lots of guidance on combat and power usage in combat. Very little to nothing on out of combat role play. There some great guidance on building campaigns, but not much on non-combat run of play. Scott Ruggels, Ninja-Bear, Tjack and 2 others 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjack Posted May 1, 2022 Report Share Posted May 1, 2022 50 minutes ago, Spence said: My opinion for years is that computer/console RPGs are not actually RPG's. They are closed event games with lots o pretty eye candy. You can do nothing in a "CRPG" that hasn't already been thought of and specifically programmed in. Even the "open world sand box" CRPG's are limited. An RPG needs a human to be actively running the game and human players to be actively playing the PC's. I do find it amusing that they are calling it an Arena Game because it is long on combat and short on non-combat Role Playing because that is exactly what Hero is. Lots of guidance on combat and power usage in combat. Very little to nothing on out of combat role play. There some great guidance on building campaigns, but not much on non-combat run of play. Unfortunately for us, the World & creativity in general, that seems to be what this era of potential players wants. It’s easier to stare at a screen than it is to read and easier to consume than to create. How to use one’s imagination is a skill and it’s no longer being taught or learned. New thoughts and ideas stimulate the brain into creating new neural pathways. The act of thinking pumps blood and oxygen to the brain making it a more efficient thinking machine. The mind is a muscle and theirs are not being exercised. How much of what sells in Hollywood is either adapted from other media, a continuation of an ongoing franchise or an remake of something that’s been seen before. This regurgitation of the familiar is easier for minds uncomplicated with individual thoughts to assimilate. Spence and Scott Ruggels 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted May 2, 2022 Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 Quote My opinion for years is that computer/console RPGs are not actually RPG's. No, they are absolutely not. Some of them can simulate one in some ways but they ultimately are not. The problem is, as Tjack says, most potential players now are not aware of this, do not understand proper RPGs, and are unprepared for the GM sitting and looking over their screen saying "what do you do?" Where's the diamond over the guys head to lead me by the nose? Where's the storyline to follow? There are two ways to approach this problem: either to be a raging grognard and bash them over the head with your dice bag, or to try to find ways that look and feel familiar to them to tempt them into the wider, more awesome, and fuller world of their own imagination and creativity. Granted, unlike older folks they will have to start nearly from scratch, since their imagination and creativity has been choked off at birth by a screen stuffed into their hands to shut them up, but its still possible to bring it to life. Quote Very little to nothing on out of combat role play. There some great guidance on building campaigns, but not much on non-combat run of play. I agree, and while that's fine (old time role players didn't need tips on how to role play, just rules to build it around), I want to add in more player tips on rping and how to build a campaign around more than a dungeon crawl and monster killing in my FH stuff. The original Western Hero had some ideas along those lines and I tried to expand on them as well as build a fuller background for players to use and understand. Spence and Tjack 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted May 2, 2022 Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 3 hours ago, Tjack said: Unfortunately for us, the World & creativity in general, that seems to be what this era of potential players wants. It’s easier to stare at a screen than it is to read and easier to consume than to create. How to use one’s imagination is a skill and it’s no longer being taught or learned. New thoughts and ideas stimulate the brain into creating new neural pathways. The act of thinking pumps blood and oxygen to the brain making it a more efficient thinking machine. The mind is a muscle and theirs are not being exercised. How much of what sells in Hollywood is either adapted from other media, a continuation of an ongoing franchise or an remake of something that’s been seen before. This regurgitation of the familiar is easier for minds uncomplicated with individual thoughts to assimilate. 1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said: No, they are absolutely not. Some of them can simulate one in some ways but they ultimately are not. The problem is, as Tjack says, most potential players now are not aware of this, do not understand proper RPGs, and are unprepared for the GM sitting and looking over their screen saying "what do you do?" Where's the diamond over the guys head to lead me by the nose? Where's the storyline to follow? There are two ways to approach this problem: either to be a raging grognard and bash them over the head with your dice bag, or to try to find ways that look and feel familiar to them to tempt them into the wider, more awesome, and fuller world of their own imagination and creativity. Granted, unlike older folks they will have to start nearly from scratch, since their imagination and creativity has been choked off at birth by a screen stuffed into their hands to shut them up, but its still possible to bring it to life. I agree that CRPGs are definitely non-RPGs and most of the popular "modern RPGs" have morphed into CRPG clones of sterility. But I do not believe that the players themselves lack the ability. It only takes a couple minutes of prodding and the modern player is fully able to Role Play. I see this every time I run a con one shot. The three ingredients are player familiarity with the setting, the players understanding the genre and giving them something to interact with. I have been mostly running Call of Cthulhu and GUMSHOE (GS) games set in the 20's thru the 80's. And the vast majority of people I have run for (even strangers at a con) have no difficulty switching from murder-hobo to role players in the games I have run. When I ran a Star Trek Adventures horror game at the con last Halloween, it was awesome. After a short "how does STA 2d20 work" testing, the players Trek'ed the heck out of it. They stopped the ancient menace, repaired the ship and escaped with no casualties. Even the Red Shirts survived. I think it is because they do not have preconceptions about CoC, GS or STA. With D&D or PF they have been conditioned to be murder-hobo's and will be that regardless of how the adventure is designed. 1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said: I agree, and while that's fine (old time role players didn't need tips on how to role play, just rules to build it around), I want to add in more player tips on rping and how to build a campaign around more than a dungeon crawl and monster killing in my FH stuff. The original Western Hero had some ideas along those lines and I tried to expand on them as well as build a fuller background for players to use and understand. You did a great job But I have found that just like many other genres I just can't seem to run a Western unless it is a sub-genre like Horror. And I cannot sustain anything beyond a one-shot in the straight western genre. I really need to get back into running Hero based games and regain my mental agility with the system. I can build/stat/adjust on the fly with CoC, GS and now 2d20 which comes with play. I really need actual run time with Hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted May 2, 2022 Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 Quote And the vast majority of people I have run for (even strangers at a con) have no difficulty switching from murder-hobo to role players in the games I have run. I think the capacity is there for most people, especially those interested in gaming. It just needs to be teased out and brought to the front. And I think most people enjoy it, once they give it a try. I mean, depending on our mood, we all need to let out our internal berserker, and damn the consequences. A RP session is the perfect place to let that out safely and in a controlled setting. Spence 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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