1930s map of Hudson City?

[colinjoss]

Is there map of Hudson City as it was back in the 1930s? I'm digging in to Pulp Hero and I'd love to reference a map to Hudson City. I can see there's one for Dark Champions but that's present day? Is there one for the 1930s?

 

Thanks

[Christopher R Taylor]

I don't think so, at least I haven't ever seen one.  It would be smaller then, the skyscrapers much fewer, and the areas around railyards less run down.  

[Spence]

I run a lot of pre-1950's games (Pulp, Spy Thrillers, Call of Cthulhu, etc.) and needed a pre-Modern city map for Hudson City since I use that city a lot.  It really wasn't that hard to alter the existing big color map.  I actually made two versions, one just a simple map with all the interstates and modern limited access roads removed and replace with ordinary streets or rail lines and one with all the transportation rail options (elevated, street level and subway) highlighted. 
It came out pretty good if I don't say so

I haven't changed the names of the malls to something else yet.  I haven't really come up with a good thing to change it to and most players don't seem to notice.

[Amorkca]

I too am always looking for good maps - are you willing to share what you have?

[Spence]

2 hours ago, Amorkca said:

I too am always looking for good maps - are you willing to share what you have?

 

Well the original map is still on sale at Hero so it is an active product.  https://www.herogames.com/store/product/275-hudson-city-map-pdf/

 

The original map was made by Keith Curtis and Jason Walters is the company. 

 

If Jason Walters was OK with it, I'd be glad to post my adjusted map as a resource or offer it up to be added so that when you buy the original you get the modified versions.  But I'm not too comfortable in sharing someone else's work that I just tweaked a little, especially since they are not at the same level of resolution as the original.

 

[Doctor Zen]

What do you use to draw your maps? Do you freehand or is there a program that you use?

[Spence]

1 hour ago, Doctor Zen said:

What do you use to draw your maps? Do you freehand or is there a program that you use?

I use Pro-fantasy's Campaign Cartographer suite of mapping programs for most of my maps.  

 

For the alterations to the the Hudson City map I just used Paint.  The HC map's resolution is fantastic and it was easy to grab an image of a section of the map and paste it elsewhere.   A bit tedious, but well worth it to me.  

[Doctor Zen]

Thanks. Did not realize that CC would be good for modern day city maps.

[Spence]

1 hour ago, Doctor Zen said:

Thanks. Did not realize that CC would be good for modern day city maps.

 

Oh, absolutely. 

 

So a quick run down.

 

Campaign Cartographer 3+ is the current version and has all the capabilities needed to do any kind of map you want. 

 

While you can do everything with just CC3+, the add-ons add tools that automate and streamline many functions. 

City Designer 3 is an add on that adds menus, tools, templates and symbol catalogs specifically to aid in designing cities of all types from fantasy to modern to futuristic.

Dungeon Designer 3 is an add on that adds menus, tools, templates and symbol catalogs specifically to aid in designing and creating a very wide variety of, you guessed it, dungeons, catacombs and sewers.

Cosmographer 3 adds star-maps, solar system maps, planetary maps and deckplans.  It even has catalogs and templates to generate Traveller maps and deckplans.

Perspectives 3 is like the other add-ons, but in this case does the 3D perspective cutaway maps.

 

There are three symbols sets which include 2500 symbols in sets 1 and 2, and 2000 in set three plus textures and stuff. 

Symbol Set 1, Fantasy Overland

Symbol Set 2: Fantasy Floorplans

Symbol Set 3: Modern Symbols

 

And they have the Source Maps sets.

Sources Maps: Castles - 25 castles and 141 plans plus all the symbol catalogs used to make them and they are fully editable by CC+.  And the Perspectives 3D symbols sets are included.  Some fictional but many real world such as Penafiel, Castello dei Conti Guidi, Pfalzgrafenstein, Harlech, and La Belle Colline.

Source Maps: Temples, Tombs and Catacombs - 25 sites and 149 plans plus all the stuff.  Examples are Angkor Wat, Borgund Stave Church, Christchurch Cathedral, Gizeh - Pyramid of Khufu, Hal-Saflieni Hypogeum, Ise Shrine, and Machu Picchu.

Source Maps: Cities - is a little different with 8 Cities, 26 Buildings, 78 Plans.  Examples are a city map of Rothenburg with plans for the Town Hall, Inns and Town Houses. A city map of Southampton with plans for a Wine Merchant, Armed Merchantman (Small Carrack) and a Warehouse. 

 

Then you have access to the Cartographer's Annuals.  Each month they put out an item (Style Pack, Map collection, etc.) that includes symbols, style packs and such as well as tutorials.  For example Cartographer's Annual Vol 1 included the following twelve items:

1 Style Pack "Mercator Historical Maps"

2 Style Pack "John Speed City Maps"

3 Map Collection "Fantasy Tavern"

4 Style Pack "Sarah Wroot Overland Maps"

5 Map Collection "Panicale"

6 Template Collection "Parchment & Paper"

7 Map Collection "Caves and Caverns"

8 Style Pack "Starship Deckplans"

9 Style Pack "Modern City Maps"

10 Map Collection "Cathedral"

11 Symbol Pack "Connecting Symbols"

12 Mapping Guide "How to Create a Style Pack"

 

Number 9 Style Pack "Modern City Maps" consists of:

• 4-page pdf Mapping Guide
• 2 example maps (fcw, pdf and png format)
• 2 template wizards
• 4 templates
• 2 new styles
• 44 new drawing tools
• 35 new symbols (2 catalogs)
• 2 new effect settings

We are currently into Volume 16 and item 186. 

Here is a link to see yourself.  https://www.profantasy.com/annual/2022/2022-cartographers-annual.asp

 

Yes I know I went overboard, but I cannot stress how impressive CC3+ is. 

It may have a learning curve, but like Hero System is to RPG's, CC3+ is to mapping programs.  Once you get the hang of it there are no limits. 

[Scott Ruggels]

On 7/2/2021 at 10:12 PM, Spence said:

I run a lot of pre-1950's games (Pulp, Spy Thrillers, Call of Cthulhu, etc.) and needed a pre-Modern city map for Hudson City since I use that city a lot.  It really wasn't that hard to alter the existing big color map.  I actually made two versions, one just a simple map with all the interstates and modern limited access roads removed and replace with ordinary streets or rail lines and one with all the transportation rail options (elevated, street level and subway) highlighted. 
It came out pretty good if I don't say so

I haven't changed the names of the malls to something else yet.  I haven't really come up with a good thing to change it to and most players don't seem to notice.

Malls were generally built on obsolete industry or pre-trucking food packing and processing, so you could replace the malls with a Can factory, a stock yard, or a manufacturing concern that made things that were once common but are no longer, or were4 once common, but moved out of the city in the early 70's due to toxicity, or in the 80's when they were moved over seas.

[Spence]

1 hour ago, Scott Ruggels said:

Malls were generally built on obsolete industry or pre-trucking food packing and processing, so you could replace the malls with a Can factory, a stock yard, or a manufacturing concern that made things that were once common but are no longer, or were4 once common, but moved out of the city in the early 70's due to toxicity, or in the 80's when they were moved over seas.

 

Did not know that. 

Thanks

[Scott Ruggels]

The Tanforan Mall in South San Francisco used to be the Tanforan Race Track (where Japanese Americans were collected temporarily before internment.). The Great Mall in Milpitas used to be a Ford plant. Just some examples locally. 

[IndianaJoe3]

11 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

Malls were generally built on obsolete industry or pre-trucking food packing and processing, so you could replace the malls with a Can factory, a stock yard, or a manufacturing concern that made things that were once common but are no longer, or were4 once common, but moved out of the city in the early 70's due to toxicity, or in the 80's when they were moved over seas.

 

Maybe in cities, but not necessarily in the suburbs. One mall near me was built on the site of an old golf course.

[Scott Ruggels]

47 minutes ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

 

Maybe in cities, but not necessarily in the suburbs. One mall near me was built on the site of an old golf course.

Oh That’s true, but the suburbs were much smaller in 1930. Their expansion was after WW2.

[tkdguy]

13 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

The Tanforan Mall in South San Francisco used to be the Tanforan Race Track (where Japanese Americans were collected temporarily before internment.). The Great Mall in Milpitas used to be a Ford plant. Just some examples locally. 

 

FYI the entire mall and the adjacent cinema are going to be torn down within a year or so. Some biotech company bought the lot and will be constructing new buildings. One correction: Tanforan is located in San Bruno, not South San Francisco.

[Scott Ruggels]

11 hours ago, tkdguy said:

 

FYI the entire mall and the adjacent cinema are going to be torn down within a year or so. Some biotech company bought the lot and will be constructing new buildings. One correction: Tanforan is located in San Bruno, not South San Francisco.

 You are correct. I would go there just to get Jolibee, and a few other odds and ends.  Sorry to see it go, but that whole little valley area is going Biotech.

[Doctor Zen]

On 6/9/2022 at 9:33 PM, Spence said:

 

Oh, absolutely. 

 

So a quick run down.

 

Campaign Cartographer 3+ is the current version and has all the capabilities needed to do any kind of map you want. 

 

While you can do everything with just CC3+, the add-ons add tools that automate and streamline many functions. 

City Designer 3 is an add on that adds menus, tools, templates and symbol catalogs specifically to aid in designing cities of all types from fantasy to modern to futuristic.

Dungeon Designer 3 is an add on that adds menus, tools, templates and symbol catalogs specifically to aid in designing and creating a very wide variety of, you guessed it, dungeons, catacombs and sewers.

Cosmographer 3 adds star-maps, solar system maps, planetary maps and deckplans.  It even has catalogs and templates to generate Traveller maps and deckplans.

Perspectives 3 is like the other add-ons, but in this case does the 3D perspective cutaway maps.

 

There are three symbols sets which include 2500 symbols in sets 1 and 2, and 2000 in set three plus textures and stuff. 

Symbol Set 1, Fantasy Overland

Symbol Set 2: Fantasy Floorplans

Symbol Set 3: Modern Symbols

 

And they have the Source Maps sets.

Sources Maps: Castles - 25 castles and 141 plans plus all the symbol catalogs used to make them and they are fully editable by CC+.  And the Perspectives 3D symbols sets are included.  Some fictional but many real world such as Penafiel, Castello dei Conti Guidi, Pfalzgrafenstein, Harlech, and La Belle Colline.

Source Maps: Temples, Tombs and Catacombs - 25 sites and 149 plans plus all the stuff.  Examples are Angkor Wat, Borgund Stave Church, Christchurch Cathedral, Gizeh - Pyramid of Khufu, Hal-Saflieni Hypogeum, Ise Shrine, and Machu Picchu.

Source Maps: Cities - is a little different with 8 Cities, 26 Buildings, 78 Plans.  Examples are a city map of Rothenburg with plans for the Town Hall, Inns and Town Houses. A city map of Southampton with plans for a Wine Merchant, Armed Merchantman (Small Carrack) and a Warehouse. 

 

Then you have access to the Cartographer's Annuals.  Each month they put out an item (Style Pack, Map collection, etc.) that includes symbols, style packs and such as well as tutorials.  For example Cartographer's Annual Vol 1 included the following twelve items:

1 Style Pack "Mercator Historical Maps"

2 Style Pack "John Speed City Maps"

3 Map Collection "Fantasy Tavern"

4 Style Pack "Sarah Wroot Overland Maps"

5 Map Collection "Panicale"

6 Template Collection "Parchment & Paper"

7 Map Collection "Caves and Caverns"

8 Style Pack "Starship Deckplans"

9 Style Pack "Modern City Maps"

10 Map Collection "Cathedral"

11 Symbol Pack "Connecting Symbols"

12 Mapping Guide "How to Create a Style Pack"

 

Number 9 Style Pack "Modern City Maps" consists of:

• 4-page pdf Mapping Guide
• 2 example maps (fcw, pdf and png format)
• 2 template wizards
• 4 templates
• 2 new styles
• 44 new drawing tools
• 35 new symbols (2 catalogs)
• 2 new effect settings

We are currently into Volume 16 and item 186. 

Here is a link to see yourself.  https://www.profantasy.com/annual/2022/2022-cartographers-annual.asp

 

Yes I know I went overboard, but I cannot stress how impressive CC3+ is. 

It may have a learning curve, but like Hero System is to RPG's, CC3+ is to mapping programs.  Once you get the hang of it there are no limits. 

You didn't go overboard as far as I am concerned. You gave me a wealth of information. Now I can look and decided for myself. I thank yoiu.