Magic as Skills and Perks (and maybe Talents)

[assault]

This is just a random thought I just had.

Is there any good reason why can't a sorcerer/wizard be modelled using skills and perks?

And yes, I know the answer is: no reason, in my game. But still, the rant may be interesting.

OK, so our student of the Dark Arts learns things, and acquires things. (For the moment, let's say he is male.)

What does he know: well, he probably can read, and possibly speak, some old language. Grimoires (for example) aren't necessarily written in a modern language. They may also be encrypted, and/or omit important details. That way they can't just be stolen and used by any random person.

So they can be read. Of course, they would just be gibberish to the uninitiated - some background in how magic works would be necessary.

OK, so our sorcerer can learn the details of a magic ritual. We'll say that it is how to contact and make a deal with a supernatural entity of some sort. In exchange for certain things, the entity might perform certain tasks.

Contact with this entity could, I suppose, happen anywhere - but that takes us into buying Powers (Summoning). An alternative would be to go somewhere where the entity can be contacted without such methods. It might only be possible at certain times, too - more knowledge that our sorcerer needs.

Of course, doing this without protection is beyond dangerous. It might be necessary for the sorcerer to take certain measures to protect himself. He would need to know what is necessary.

Certain sacrifices/offerings might need to be made. The sorcerer would need to know what is appropriate.

 

So far, then, our sorcerer has a lot of obscure knowledge that few people have or need.

Once they can address the entity in question, they can make a deal. Various skills can help here. And, of course, they need to be able to keep up their side of the bargain. If they don't...

In return, they get the equivalent of a Contact, Favour or Follower. A really powerful one, potentially. They might learn how to invoke this in times of need - but this is really just a special effect, or perhaps a skill. (Call Spooky Thing, 14-, maybe.)

The entity is an NPC, with its own agenda, naturally.

Anyway, while the entity is probably built with powers, the sorcerer isn't.

I think with a bit of work, this could have a lot of flavour - it would feel like magic, of a certain kind. Balance? Well, that could be another matter.

Anyway, here's Night on Bald Mountain, from Fantasia.

[Asperion]

I have always believed that the reason that magic users have all these restrictions placed upon them (more so than other types) is because designers generally have a built in dislike for anything that they can't see and or manipulate on some physical level, this includes such abstractions as magic and mentalism.

[DShomshak]

What you describe, assault, is pretty close to the magic in Jonathan Stroud's "Bartimaeus" series of YA Fantasy novels. (The Amulet of Samarkand, The Golem's Eye, Ptolemy's Gate, The Ring of Solomon.) Magicians can summon and bind spirits -- period. Magic items are magic because they have spirits bound into them. Any other powers a magician seems to have are similarly gained from spirits. Spirit summoning requires a great deal of specialized knowledge, plus special tools -- high ritual magic, all very Key of Solomon. If you make any mistake, the spirit is free to attack you... because it is an intelligent person whom you just kidnapped from its home plane and tried to bind into staying in a world where every second of existence is painful. All magic involves keeping slaves, which means that though you don't have to be an utter rat bastard to be a magician, it helps.

 

How powerful a magician is depends on the power of the spirits he can summon and bind, which in turn depends on his knowledge, intelligence, experience, and an undefinable talent -- no matter how hard a magician studies, he will almost certainly never equal legendary mages such as William Ewart Gladstone. (Yes, it's alternate history Fantasy as well.)

 

You could represent this as a Power (Summon), with various Skill Rolls. Magic items are Independent Powers. But yeah, in most cases the spirit is an NPC compelled to work the magician's will. An involuntary Follower might be the best way to represent this. Or a pool of points to represent a magician's changing roster of spirit Followers.

 

And is it really necessary to write out the Summoning Power? It might indeed be more parsimonious to just treat it as a Skill, with the Side Effect -- angry, uncontrolled spirit -- as the consequence for failure, just as the consequence for failing a Demolitions roll badly might be that you blow yourself up. All the paraphernalia of Summoning -- the magic circle, pots of incense, herbs, other stuff -- and Extra Time, Incantations, etc., are just conditions of using the Skill -- just as someone using Mechanics to fix a car needs time and tools.

 

So yes, this seems like a viable option for a certain kind of game.

 

Finally, I'll note that in the Bartimaeus series, half the chapters are first person narrations by the jinni Bartimaeus himself. He is the chief protagonist. A PC. That might also be the case in a such a Fantasy game: Each player controls a magician, and one of the spirits summoned by one of the other players.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Christopher R Taylor]

You can just use a skill roll modified by the power level and difficulty of the spell you are attempting to do anything with magic.  Just make it up on the spot: blast is -1 to the roll per 10 points, adding limitations makes it easier, adding advantages makes the roll more difficult.

 

The flaws with this system are manifold, including slowing the game to a crawl as Wizard Boy works on his perfect spell (worse than a power pool), and the fact that wizard boy can spend like 20 points and blow up the world compared to a warrior who has to pay lots more to swing a sword well.

 

Talents can work great, as they are simply a full build of a power with all the work hidden behind the curtain.  That's more or less how I intend to present the spells in the player's guide for my fantasy setting (the writeups in a spell book).  But then you have the opposite problem: it costs a zillion points to be able to turn things funny colors or fall slowly.

[SCUBA Hero]

Killer Shrike has several magic systems presented on his website, including eight Skill based systems.

 

Magic Systems (killershrike.com)

 

 

[Killer Shrike]

Also, the various Sorcery variants in my urban fantasy setting Here There Be Monsters work somewhat as described. Invokers and the custom Invocation power are particularly close thematically (as I mentioned yesterday in the replies to the corresponding facebook post). Meanwhile, Necromantists, Daemonologists, and Elementalists use a variety of Followers, the Summon power, and various skills for some of their magic. 

 

Separate subject, a long time ago I threw a "fun" character up on these boards as an example for some other poster, to demonstrate a "summoner" whose powers were all various slots in a couple of MP's with a SFX of summoning things but no actual usage of the Summon power. There's a copy still laying around on my web server here: Mythic. A great benefit of the Hero System is that one can handle quite a lot of thematic woo woo simply with creative use of SFX.

 

Make of it what you will...