Market Research: Creatures of the Night, Revised?

[Lord Liaden]

Not stupid at all. It stands for "Creatures Of The Night." Extra confusing in that those are the same initials as for "Champions Of The North."

 

Since the full title of Dean's book is, "Creatures of the Night: Horror Enemies," it would probably be clearer to just refer to it as "HE".

[DShomshak]

Just as a further point of confusion, about the same time Creatures of the Night: Horror Enemies came out, Steve Jackson Games published GURPS Creatures of the Night, a collection of horror beasties for that game.

 

A lot of them were darn good horror, too <grumble grumble, not sure that makes it more or less annoying...>

 

If LL wants to learn more about the grimoire demons I've adapted, the source is A. E. Waite's The Book of Ceremonial Magic. The descriptions are bald, terse, and near quotes from the original sources. Actual grimoires like the Lemegeton and Grimorium Verum are very dull reads. No Necronomicon here: Your problem won't be staying sane, it's staying awake. Consequently, turning the demons into something interesting (let alone gameable) takes a lot of one's own imagination.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Lord Liaden]

4 hours ago, DShomshak said:

Consequently, turning the demons into something interesting (let alone gameable) takes a lot of one's own imagination.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

Which is why I was kinda hoping to steal from yours...

[steriaca]

I would love to see his take on the Jason template (undead slasher guy).

[Gauntlet]

I did create my version of Leatherface and put it in the downloads section:
 

 

[DShomshak]

There was a good Jason homage in an issue of Adventurer's Club back in the day. I'm not sure I could produce anything different enough that plagiarism could not be suspevted. So, not Jason.

 

A Freddy Krueger homage, OTOH... I already have one murderous ghost, but the Haunt has significant differences from Freddy. Will consider. (Core idea for the supplement, though, *is* updating previously published characters.)

 

Dean Shomshak

 

 

[steriaca]

Talking about horror, anybody seen the new Thanksgiving trailer?

 

"Pligrim,

Pilgrim,

dressed in gray,

Where will you be

on Thanksgiving day?"

[Lord Liaden]

21 hours ago, DShomshak said:

 

 

A Freddy Krueger homage, OTOH... I already have one murderous ghost, but the Haunt has significant differences from Freddy. Will consider. (Core idea for the supplement, though, *is* updating previously published characters.)

 

Dean Shomshak

 

 

 

Hmm... as mentioned upthread, with the Bogeyman and Demoiselle Nocturne, we have two editions' worth of "Krueger-esque" villains to draw from. Thematically similar, but quite different in origin. If you were to add to that yourself, you would probably want something a little more distinctive.

 

If I might make a suggestion, Epiales (other spellings) was a spirit (daemon) embodying nightmares in Greek mythology, and a son of the goddess Nyx (night). I don't think anyone has used a mythic nightmare entity as a villain in the superhero genre. Well, of course there's Doctor Strange's enemy Nightmare, but he's more of a conceptual cosmic being.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Lord Liaden

[DShomshak]

Four-Eyes updated. Here's a bit of new text that incidentally addresses one of my pet peeves with the Champions Villains trilogy: A tendency to present all characters as experienced and in a sense "finished," with little uncertainty (or freedom) in what way they'll go. Sometimes I think characters should specifically be *new* villains, giving the PCs a chance to shape their destinies.

 

Quote

Campaign Use: As presented, Marvin is a new character. The PCs are the first heroes to encounter him. He’s a “supervillain” only because he cannot control his powers. The first challenge is double: How do they stop Marvin’s accidental rampage? And how do they respond to panic-driven mobs trying to kill him? Even his parents are now terrified of him. GMs decide for themselves what happens after that — but Marvin’s youth makes him malleable, and therefore a temptation to people who want to exploit his power. Marvin’s powers can trap PCs in scenes of terror; but he can also become the focus of stories of social horror, as the heroes see what people can do to a child out of blind fear or ruthless ambition. And if someone can’t find a way to give him some sort of positive life example, he’ll grow up as a true monster at war with the world.

 

Four-Eyes does not Hunt anyone. Since his Powers are supposed to be overwhelming, they should not be weakened. If PCs have high DMCV or Mental Defense, scale up his mental attacks as needed to make them dangerous. He’s also supposed to start out as physically incompetent. That may change as he grows up.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Lord Liaden]

To be fair, the majority of characters in the Champs Villains trilogy are reprints from earlier villain collections, not only updated to the new rules edition, but for growth by the characters over the intervening years, in an obvious attempt to maintain chronal consistency within the CU setting. There are a few newer, less experienced characters in the final CV, but I agree that more would have made the books more useful to a wider range of campaigns.

[Gauntlet]

45 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

To be fair, the majority of characters in the Champs Villains trilogy are reprints from earlier villain collections, not only updated to the new rules edition, but for growth by the characters over the intervening years, in an obvious attempt to maintain chronal consistency within the CU setting. There are a few newer, less experienced characters in the final CV, but I agree that more would have made the books more useful to a wider range of campaigns.

 

I'm in the process of writing a new villain book with all new female villains called "Damsels of Destruction". Hopefully have it out in January.

[Lord Liaden]

Fresh is always welcome, Gauntlet. But if I may make a suggestion (which you well could have already thought of), it would be nice if the villains in the book are treated as characters first, and women second. Emphasizing woman pro- and antagonists in pop culture in the name of representation and empowerment, has been provoking something of a backlash recently.

[Gauntlet]

9 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Fresh is always welcome, Gauntlet. But if I may make a suggestion (which you well could have already thought of), it would be nice if the villains in the book are treated as characters first, and women second. Emphasizing woman pro- and antagonists in pop culture in the name of representation and empowerment, has been provoking something of a backlash recently.

 

Yea, my daughter made me do it. 😁

 

But seriously, I have thought that even villains should have real thoughts and feelings, those type of villains are much more interesting as they respond to heroes and don't just fight them.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Gauntlet

[steriaca]

5 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

 

Yea, my daughter made me do it. 😁

 

But seriously, I have thought that even villains should have real thoughts and feelings, those type of villains are much more interesting as they respond to heroes and don't just fight them.

Sounds like you and @tiger have similar idea on an all woman's villain team. He just had to create one when most of his players took limitations about striking women and such. The players were just asking for an all female team (else got free points from being so chivalrous).

[Gauntlet]

2 hours ago, steriaca said:

Sounds like you and @tiger have similar idea on an all woman's villain team. He just had to create one when most of his players took limitations about striking women and such. The players were just asking for an all female team (else got free points from being so chivalrous).

 

I just feel that all villains (man, woman, alien, lower plainer, whatever) should have real wants and needs of their own. Even when I use Grond, he has wants and needs. He hates what he has become and the fact that he no longer has the mental capacity to understand much of which is going on around him. He deals with this via violence, if he can't understand it his only option is to destroy it. Villains that have no wants/needs, such as The Monster, I just won't use, or will just use him as an automation for another villain.

[Lord Liaden]

5 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

 

Villains that have no wants/needs, such as The Monster, I just won't use, or will just use him as an automation for another villain.

 

 

FWIW I used the Monster as a tool of the Dreamzone entity Demoiselle Nocturne, one of DEMON's inner Circle. Nocturne materialized the Monster out of the murderous dreams and fantasies of a psychopathic child named Henry Francis Krueger , whose psyche she uses as her "sanctum" in the Dreamzone. Demoiselle Nocturne employs the creature as an enforcer, or sometimes just turns it loose to spread the chaos and terror she enjoys.

 

That leaves the option open for encounters with the Monster to lead to further stories with D.N., the Dreamzone, and/or DEMON.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Lord Liaden

[steriaca]

11 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

FWIW I used the Monster as a tool of the Dreamzone entity Demoiselle Nocturne, one of DEMON's inner Circle. Nocturne materialized the Monster out of the murderous dreams and fantasies of a psychopathic child named Henry Francis Krueger , whose psyche she uses as her "sanctum" in the Dreamzone. Demoiselle Nocturne employs the creature as an enforcer, or sometimes just turns it loose to spread the chaos and terror she enjoys.

 

That leaves the option open for encounters with the Monster to lead to further stories with D.N., the Dreamzone, and/or DEMON.

This is appropriate because of the vague origin given to the Monster. Do you wish there were more vague villain origins which you could mold as you feel fit?

[Lord Liaden]

Tough to say. It can be satisfying to have some villain write-ups with significant room to add my own flourishes. Personally I enjoy looking for in-universe ways to weave the characters more into the setting. I think I've filled in all the "vague origins" among the published Champions Universe characters. OTOH the official origins have often given me plot hooks and story inspirations I might not have thought of otherwise. And frankly, any of us can change an origin we don't like for our own campaigns.

 

I'll always like a few villains and heroes with mysterious origins in any publication; but IMHO they should be a decided minority, otherwise their specialness is diluted and the publication overall just starts to look like lazy writing.

[Gauntlet]

32 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

I'll always like a few villains and heroes with mysterious origins in any publication; but IMHO they should be a decided minority, otherwise their specialness is diluted and the publication overall just starts to look like lazy writing.

 

Mysterious origins can definitely be a good thing, but not putting down what makes a hero or villain tick is definitely not a good thing.

[DShomshak]

IIRC somebody said they'd like to see one of the Great Beast's experimental victims. Yesterday I wrote one up. I think it's best treated as a monster rather than a character, since it's so badly damaged in mind and body. Here's the physical description:

 

Quote

The Grue’s form remains humanoid, in that it has two legs, a torso, and a head; but it has a spare left arm, and stout tentacles sometimes erupt from its body or withdraw with a slurp. The Grue has no skin, only muscles and tendons sliding under glistening slime. Sometimes its limbs stretch four times longer as flailing lengths of sinew and bone. Massive claws adorn its hands and feet, while its misshapen head stretches into a maw full of fangs as well as the oversized ears and nostrils of a bat. If only it had eyes.

Just an update to show that work continues.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Lord Liaden]

That rather reminds me of the "lickers" from the remake of the video game, Resident Evil 2.

[Rich McGee]

On 11/2/2023 at 2:18 PM, Gauntlet said:

 

Mysterious origins can definitely be a good thing, but not putting down what makes a hero or villain tick is definitely not a good thing.

Agreed.  Origins can be mysterious and stay that way forever if desired (which leaves the players something to speculate about), but even the most bizarre or obscure motivation should eventually emerge during play as the PCs interact with a monster/villain and observe its behavior.  That said, your origin will often imply your motivations, and vice versa, so having both does generally make things easier on the creative end.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Rich McGee

[DShomshak]

Time for another small update. The Monad will receive additional robots, including humans it wired into obedient "hubots" because who doesn't love a cybermen/borg homage?

 

And speaking of Doctor Who villains, dedicated fans of the series might recognize the source of the title for this Story Seed for servobots. Beware even the least of the Monad's robots!

 

Quote

• The Power of the Monad: A servobot is a tool of nigh-unlimited utility. Someone (government, corporation, whatever) obtains a damaged servobot, repairs it, and tries reprogramming it to build Monad technology they can use for their own ends. It seems to work for a while granting the group a trove of super-tech… until the servobot, and all the other servobots it built, turn on their human masters. The industrial park they built is actually a new Monad hive… and the fools who thought they could exploit its technology become its first victims.

Dean Shomshak

[Stanley Teriaca]

Ex-tera-nate!

The Doc-tor's fate!

At 65, Dal-ikes ro-tate!

[Rich McGee]

11 minutes ago, Stanley Teriaca said:

Ex-tera-nate!

The Doc-tor's fate!

At 65, Dal-ikes ro-tate!

You've seen the Dalek music vids with them covering various old tunes, right?  I know Stam Fine over on youtube had quite a few of them in his Who vid reviews, but there are others.  Their voices lend themselves surprisingly well to ABBA songs, for some reason.