"Simplified" Sixth Edition...feedback requested

[fdw3773]

Last month I enjoyed the fall game convention (Nuke Con) and am slowing building up the desire to revitalize Champions and run it at the next major game event. The challenge remains, though, is to take something that's very rules heavy (Hero System) and make it easy enough for brand new players to pick up and be interested in like the rules light superhero game ICONS that I typically run, while still providing the details (e.g. "crunch") that existing Hero Systems players enjoy.

 

I came up with what I call, "Simplified Sixth" where I combined powers, skills, talents, and perks under the generalized category of, "Skills & Attributes" (I got the idea from Silver Age Sentinels), spell out what I can, minimize acronyms (which really confused new players in the past), and make it fit on one page. Below are two examples and constructive feedback would be extremely helpful.

 

Thank you!

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah I think that's the direction to go with character sheets: strip out all the stuff nobody needs during the game.  Nobody needs the values of modifiers on their character sheet.  Nobody needs the cost of stats, nobody needs base stats.  Just give the character's abilities without the background gamer stuff.  Somewhere (usually in Hero Designer) you need all that stuff, but not in the sheet.

[Scott Ruggels]

 Pregens with minimalist character sheets are the way to go.  THese are pretty good, though the text is a little bit small. These are good for convention sheets.

[fdw3773]

5 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

 Pregens with minimalist character sheets are the way to go.  THese are pretty good, though the text is a little bit small. These are good for convention sheets.

Thanks for the feedback! The images are screenshots, which is probably why they look so small. In the actual Microsoft Word document, it's Minion Pro size 10 font, which is standard.

[Doc Democracy]

I can join the chorus of appreciating simpler sheets for play, divorced from build sheets or hero designer files.

 

Watch your players, if they can't find numbers they are not obvious enough.  One place the game mechanics drive a bit of confusion is conflating ability stats with game stats.  By that I mean things like STR, DEX, INT etc sitting beside SPD, REC, END and STUN. 

 

I would have a combat box where all these useful numbers sit together.

 

In the Supergirl sheet, I would probably remove the detail from the Enhanced physiology, just note that asterisked features are enhanced, then add some asterisks through the sheet. The GM needs the detail, the player's playing sheet just needs to know what is linked in this way.

 

I might also push it out to two sides.  I would put the picture, the background and the complications on one side, possibly bulking them out with some strategy hints and tips.  I would then add a bit of text "colour" to the powers to encourage players to play the power and not the numbers.

 

7 hours ago, fdw3773 said:

it's Minion Pro size 10 font, which is standard.

 

Yeah, when I was younger that was no problem, today it is becoming more of a challenge. 🙂

 

Doc

[Hugh Neilson]

I think my first step would be to assess whether the sheets could be customized for the specific Con game.  For example:

• If no characters have mental powers, and no villains will, do we need Mental Combat Value or Mental Defense?

• Do we need rDEF at all?  Only if the game will see killing attacks.  I guess Supergirl has one, so it needs to be explained.

• Will there be adjustment powers?  If not, noting “unified power” isn’t relevant to the player.  If they will, Unified Power  will make them extremely complicated to deal with.

 

I’m trying to look at this like I have never played Hero before.  Some thoughts:

• There is some extra space in the bottom right of the Characteristics box.  Stretching Defenses into that area would allow “Resistant Defenses” to be more clearly identified.

• So what’s this “Endurance” stat?  None of the abilities indicate their END cost, so this will be opaque to a new player.

• The various “+x Characteristics” risks confusion as a player looks at Supergirl (for example) and thinks “OK, she has an OCV of 12.  I’ll use her Enhanced Physiology and Battle Training to increase that to 20”.

• Flight could have a better explanation of Megascale (e.g. just “30 km out of combat”).

• The player needs to know what “Absorption” does.

• The player needs to know what “Damage Reduction” does.  This may be another unnecessary complication

• A lot of abilities “Requires INT Roll” – the player needs to know what to roll.

• A note that she can use only one Multipower ability at a time would help the player. 

• Having these and the UP powers numbered suggests they have some common mechanic – one group is all usable at the same time and the other only one at a time? This will not be intuitive to a player.

• Are all of the Complications necessary?  The player doesn’t need to know about Hunteds, and either the Danvers Family will be relevant or they won’t in the Con game.

• A summary of attack options (especially for Supergirl’s STR) could be helpful to a player.

Dropped to Wasp here

• An explanation of “Autofire” would also be useful. 

• Is there any reason the player would choose the 8d6 attack instead of the 10d6 attack?  Maybe the 10d6 was not intended to be autofire?

• Do any of her powers require that she shrink? 

• Is that +5 OCV over and above the 11 at the top of the sheet?

• Striking Appearance is unclear – does it add to the stats already presented?  Is it always applicable?  What does “+1 PRE” mean?

 

 

On the Builds

•  I assume the intent is not to run Supergirl and the Wasp together.

• If the goal is to introduce players to the game, I like the Wasp’s power level a lot more than Supergirl’s. 

• Neither have much investment in skills.

• As Doc D notes, having a two-sided sheet would open up more explanatory notes and more “how to run the character in a game” options.

• I would also consider “full build” sheets, but only for interested players after the game, perhaps with "campaign guidelines" like DC and defense ranges, an expected focus on superhuman powers over skills, etc.

[fdw3773]

19 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

I think my first step would be to assess whether the sheets could be customized for the specific Con game.  For example:

 

• If no characters have mental powers, and no villains will, do we need Mental Combat Value or Mental Defense?

   

• Do we need rDEF at all?  Only if the game will see killing attacks.  I guess Supergirl has one, so it needs to be explained.

   

• Will there be adjustment powers?  If not, noting “unified power” isn’t relevant to the player.  If they will, Unified Power  will make them extremely complicated to deal with.

 

I’m trying to look at this like I have never played Hero before.  Some thoughts:

 

• There is some extra space in the bottom right of the Characteristics box.  Stretching Defenses into that area would allow “Resistant Defenses” to be more clearly identified.

   

• So what’s this “Endurance” stat?  None of the abilities indicate their END cost, so this will be opaque to a new player.

   

• The various “+x Characteristics” risks confusion as a player looks at Supergirl (for example) and thinks “OK, she has an OCV of 12.  I’ll use her Enhanced Physiology and Battle Training to increase that to 20”.

   

• Flight could have a better explanation of Megascale (e.g. just “30 km out of combat”).

   

• The player needs to know what “Absorption” does.

   

• The player needs to know what “Damage Reduction” does.  This may be another unnecessary complication

   

• A lot of abilities “Requires INT Roll” – the player needs to know what to roll.

   

• A note that she can use only one Multipower ability at a time would help the player. 

   

• Having these and the UP powers numbered suggests they have some common mechanic – one group is all usable at the same time and the other only one at a time? This will not be intuitive to a player.

   

• Are all of the Complications necessary?  The player doesn’t need to know about Hunteds, and either the Danvers Family will be relevant or they won’t in the Con game.

   

• A summary of attack options (especially for Supergirl’s STR) could be helpful to a player.

   

Dropped to Wasp here

 

• An explanation of “Autofire” would also be useful. 

   

• Is there any reason the player would choose the 8d6 attack instead of the 10d6 attack?  Maybe the 10d6 was not intended to be autofire?

   

• Do any of her powers require that she shrink? 

   

• Is that +5 OCV over and above the 11 at the top of the sheet?

   

• Striking Appearance is unclear – does it add to the stats already presented?  Is it always applicable?  What does “+1 PRE” mean?

   

 

 

 

 

 

On the Builds

 

•  I assume the intent is not to run Supergirl and the Wasp together.

   

• If the goal is to introduce players to the game, I like the Wasp’s power level a lot more than Supergirl’s. 

   

• Neither have much investment in skills.

   

• As Doc D notes, having a two-sided sheet would open up more explanatory notes and more “how to run the character in a game” options.

   

• I would also consider “full build” sheets, but only for interested players after the game, perhaps with "campaign guidelines" like DC and defense ranges, an expected focus on superhuman powers over skills, etc.

   

Thanks for the feedback. Everyone has highlighted the joys and challenges of Hero System associated with providing enough detail for those who played it before while making it easy to introduce to new players. My intent of minimizing skills, perks, and talents was to focusing more on powers, but you're right in that the characteristic and skill bonuses already totaled need to be annotated with an asterisk or something similar so that the players doesn't misinterpret the stats.

 

Previously, I provided an overview of the character to the player and what everything on the character sheet means and once tried organizing the powers and abilities under "Offense" and "Defense" that outlined the main powers/attacks and main defenses with mixed results. Additionally, players have used Wasp and someone similar to Supergirl in terms of power level (e.g. Power Girl) during a game convention session. The scenarios I developed had crossovers built-in between the DC and Marvel Universe with humorous results (e.g. Iron Man hitting on Wonder Woman, the Incredible Hulk noting that everyone he meets from the DC Universe wears their underwear on the outside). 🙂

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by fdw3773

[fdw3773]

After a little more modifying using a previous template I developed, here's the latest version. Some general design notes:

1) The Hero File has all of the rules-specific details such as Unified Power, OIF, etc.

2) I kept the Skills, Perks, and Talents to a bare minimum.

3) I added a box that listed the main attacks for the character.

4) I didn't list the END costs for powers. The END stat is listed when the player is hit with a Power Drain attack.

5) I went with 10 pt Arial font, which is much easier to read than Minion Pro.

 

I may run with this format at the next local game event down the road....wish me luck! 😀

Edited October 31, 2023 by fdw3773

[Christopher R Taylor]

11 OCV is pretty grand but I guess the Wasp doesn't miss very often

[Mark Rand]

I thought Wasp had a public ID, not a secret one.

[fdw3773]

1 hour ago, Mark Rand said:

I thought Wasp had a public ID, not a secret one.

It could go either way based on what I read in the comics over the years. 😉

Edited October 31, 2023 by fdw3773

[Sketchpad]

I'm a fan of leaving the build points off the sheet. I've been toying with the idea myself, tbh. 

 

As for the Wasp, if this is mainline Marvel, shouldn't she have PS: Fashion Designer and the Van Dyne fortune?

[Doc Democracy]

6 hours ago, fdw3773 said:

I didn't list the END costs for powers. The END stat is listed when the player is hit with a Power Drain attack.

 

I think it is important, if you are going to have END in the fame, to list the cost for using the power.  It can be "power description [5]".  You can nake it stand out by listing END in green, and all the end costs in green, so that you link those things for players.

[fdw3773]

7 hours ago, Sketchpad said:

I'm a fan of leaving the build points off the sheet. I've been toying with the idea myself, tbh. 

 

As for the Wasp, if this is mainline Marvel, shouldn't she have PS: Fashion Designer and the Van Dyne fortune?

Yes, and in previous write-ups that was annotated. However, player feedback has been along the lines of, "Why is this listed when I'm not going to use it in the scenario?"

 

This goes back to the ongoing issue I've had in trying to introduce Champions to new players so they're not overwhelmed with information. If I listed every detail such as professional rivalries, access to S.H.I.E.L.D., bases, etc. that Wasp had, the players would have information overload while trying read the sheet.

 

Even if I listed it, someone is going to say, "Shouldn't Henry Pym be listed as a contact? Or Nick Fury? Or, since Janet Van Dyne and Henry Pym are divorced, shouldn't he be listed as a Rivalry now instead of a Social Complication?" At some point I have stop and have something that a player can use for a scenario that will hopefully generate future interest in Champions/Hero System.

Edited October 31, 2023 by fdw3773

[fdw3773]

3 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

I think it is important, if you are going to have END in the fame, to list the cost for using the power.  It can be "power description [5]".  You can nake it stand out by listing END in green, and all the end costs in green, so that you link those things for players.

However, I don't. In the previous scenarios I ran during game conventions, END wasn't a big factor and tracking it slowed the game down significantly. The only time it mattered was when a player was hit with a Power Drain attack of some kind.

 

If I use the full rules while trying to replicate every minute detail of each character write-up, I'm back to square one: a game that no one wants to play and has no interest in being introduced to because of all of the excess information.

Edited October 31, 2023 by fdw3773

[Doc Democracy]

36 minutes ago, fdw3773 said:

However, I don't. In the previous scenarios I ran during game conventions, END wasn't a big factor and tracking it slowed the game down significantly. The only time it mattered was when a player was hit with a Power Drain attack of some kind.

 

If I use the full rules while trying to replicate every minute detail of each character write-up, I'm back to square one: a game that no one wants to play and has no interest in being introduced to because of all of the excess information.

 

I am all for this in one-off and con games.  But I would take END away completely then - and anything that would otherwise tire people out would simply be doing STUN damage. 

In the past I have abstracted END to some "energy tokens" - I used glass beads.  When the narrative of the story was about pushing things on, I would take tokens away and some attacks (that I knew were END drains etc) would take away tokens.  It made it more physical and less abstract, and the tokens came back when they delayed or rested.

 

 

[Hugh Neilson]

1 hour ago, Doc Democracy said:

I am all for this in one-off and con games.  But I would take END away completely then - and anything that would otherwise tire people out would simply be doing STUN damage.

 

That was my initial thought as well - that it looked like END may simply not be in use, so it's not being tracked.  But it was on the sheet, so I assumed that it was in use.

 

I'm a bit confused that END was not a big factor, just something tracked for no real purpose unless an END drain was used.  If one is used, or a  character is KOd and recovers also adds an END element. A sudden need to introduce a brand-new mechanic in mid-combat seems like an issue.  Not having END costs readily available at that point seems even more problematic.

 

Also, it looks like it would be a factor if it were not assumed away.

 

As well, both of Wasp's blasts are annotated "Autofire (Up to 3 shots). I questioned earlier whether it was intended that both the 10d6 attack and the 8d6 Stun Only attack be Autofire, as there seemed to be little reason to use the slightly smaller attack.

 

With a 6 SPD and 42 END, I'm not sure how autofire attacks that cost 12 or 15 END per use was "not a big deal", even before factoring in shrinking and flight.  With a 7 SPD, Supergirl would run through END pretty quickly too, although having 100 END gives her a bit of staying power. 

 

Maybe the builds behind the scenes build in some reduced/0 END to offset this, though.

 

More broadly, END is really an "old school RPG" resource management element.  It does balance out some elements, like lower-cost exhausting powers, and some costs (like autofire) might need reconsideration if it were eliminated, but when many builds are designed around enough reduced END to remove its impact, the possibility of replacing it with something less fiddly seems to merit consideration, at least.

 

9 hours ago, Sketchpad said:

As for the Wasp, if this is mainline Marvel, shouldn't she have PS: Fashion Designer and the Van Dyne fortune?

 

1 hour ago, fdw3773 said:

Yes, and in previous write-ups that was annotated. However, player feedback has been along the lines of, "Why is this listed when I'm not going to use it in the scenario?"

 

This goes back to the ongoing issue I've had in trying to introduce Champions to new players so they're not overwhelmed with information. If I listed every detail such as professional rivalries, access to S.H.I.E.L.D., bases, etc. that Wasp had, the players would have information overload while trying read the sheet.

 

Even if I listed it, someone is going to say, "Shouldn't Henry Pym be listed as a contact? Or Nick Fury? Or, since Janet Van Dyne and Henry Pym are divorced, shouldn't he be listed as a Rivalry now instead of a Social Complication?" At some point I have stop and have something that a player can use for a scenario that will hopefully generate future interest in Champions/Hero System.

 

1 hour ago, fdw3773 said:

If I use the full rules while trying to replicate every minute detail of each character write-up, I'm back to square one: a game that no one wants to play and has no interest in being introduced to because of all of the excess information.

 

To some extent, I think this can be a question of the game constructed using the Hero system.  All of that stuff can be included as character sheet detail, but be left off for a one-off where it will not come into play - maybe we have a bunch of minutia skills and perks offset by a few complications.  Maybe the game style is more streamlined, so a lot of background issues (skill/perks, etc. and complications) are not used in the game, or are simply non-costed background elements with minimal or no in-game effect.  This is a dial setting that really merits more discussion in the rulebooks.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Hugh Neilson