megaplayboy Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Well, if the constructs are even momentarily sentient, I think most(probably all) of my PCs would have huge moral problems with that. Vigiilance would probably gather sufficient evidence to get prosecutors to bring a child porn charge against him. Other heroes would probably do something similar. The ones with children might go beyond the law to "discourage" such activity. Moral gray areas can be interesting--have a PC who's part Olympian, with all that implies. Has two standards of sexual morality--one for mortals, and one for "his people"(inasmuch as they are a different species, even if compatible or similar in many ways). But other PCs aren't always that understanding of the difference;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wormhole Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Hardware: As a single father of a teenage girl, Hardware would be extremely disgusted and the temptation to just kill the sicko would be a devil to resist. After calming down enough to think things through rationally, he'd do discreet surveillence on the pervert and be waiting to bust him if he tries to do anything to a real child. Tigershark: Can you say "Purena Shark Chow" boys and girls? Air Raider: To AR, this guy is just another example of the degeneration civilian society is going through and would not think twice about "taking out the garbage." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZootSoot Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Originally posted by Mayday No. It is not. If a person cant deal with a trauma they blank it out. Bologna! People do not repress any traumatic memories, except for these ones of sexual abuse. Why? In reality people do not repress memories, but it is easy for people to create "memories" that are very difficult to distinguish from real memory. Hypnosis is particularly good at creating fantasy. People who have had extraordinary traumas in there lives do not block out the experience. There may be a few cases of genuine memory repression, but that is characteristic of organic psychosis, not a normal brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZootSoot Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Duplication changes this question for me. If my character was aware of it then efforts would be made to stop this man, ranging depending upon the character. Crimson Tide once shot another PC with a sniper rifle from a clock tower to stop the escalation of a rivalry, so his response to this is clear. Armando might kill this man with his bare hands, but mostly because it would make him confront some aspects of his own life that he avoids thinking about. Sword Dancer would use her mystical contacts and psionic allies to try to "cure" this guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Originally posted by ZootSoot Bologna! People do not repress any traumatic memories, except for these ones of sexual abuse. Why? In reality people do not repress memories, but it is easy for people to create "memories" that are very difficult to distinguish from real memory. Hypnosis is particularly good at creating fantasy. People who have had extraordinary traumas in there lives do not block out the experience. There may be a few cases of genuine memory repression, but that is characteristic of organic psychosis, not a normal brain. Huh? There are bits of my childhood that I've repressed pretty deeply. Some of them have come back due to triggers. One such trigger was a photograph. While there is plenty of evidence of created memories as well, there's enough to show that repression is a fairly common experience as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Originally posted by ZootSoot Bologna! People do not repress any traumatic memories, except for these ones of sexual abuse. Why? In reality people do not repress memories, but it is easy for people to create "memories" that are very difficult to distinguish from real memory. Hypnosis is particularly good at creating fantasy. People who have had extraordinary traumas in there lives do not block out the experience. There may be a few cases of genuine memory repression, but that is characteristic of organic psychosis, not a normal brain. Believe you are confusing "repressed memory," which does happen, with "recovered memory," which is a parlor hoax in line with a Ouija board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Originally posted by McCoy Believe you are confusing "repressed memory," which does happen, with "recovered memory," which is a parlor hoax in line with a Ouija board. Thanks McCoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandi Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Simple truth is, if this suddenly came up in the campaign Irving was involved in, I'd be wondering what the hell was up with our GM since his regular GMing style was about as non-gritty as they come. On top of that, for a while at the time this game was going on we had a player who didn't just have issues, he had an effin' magazine stand going (in a later supers campaign I was not in he was banned from playing female characters and shortly thereafter just dropped from the game) and the prospect of dealing with him and this storyline would make start calling in sick/having appointments on game night.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Raven Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 This guy is heading for a rough time. I wouldn't just kill him outright. He would be tortured slowly before I allowed him to succumb to the sweet embrace of death. I don't need the police or any other inept law enforcement agency. I also don't need the ineffective court system to tell me this guy is going to die. I AM the Judge, Jury and Executioner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Originally posted by McCoy Except that he did not. No tresspass, no physical evidence. It is the equlivent of him imagining the children nude and etc. And the children, and their parents, will have no knowledge of this at all until chages are filed. AT THAT POINT the children and parents will be tramatized, not by the deviant, but by the legal system. But he did, He had to go out and Hunt the children down and touch them to get thier construct. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZootSoot Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Originally posted by lemming Huh? There are bits of my childhood that I've repressed pretty deeply. Some of them have come back due to triggers. One such trigger was a photograph. While there is plenty of evidence of created memories as well, there's enough to show that repression is a fairly common experience as well. There is a difference between forgetting and repressing . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Archer Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Ghost Archer is a hard man and has seen just about everything in his long life. While he knows that no law has actually been broken, he also realizes that an artifical child is but a thought away from a real child. This means a lesson needs to be taught. He would start by using his Cosmic Power Pool to alter the man into a young child, then time travel him back to say..ancient Rome and sell him to a brothel. "See how YOU like it." Perhaps he'd bother to go back in a few months and recover the 'man' but I doubt he'd ever give him another thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caris Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by ZootSoot Bologna! People do not repress any traumatic memories, except for these ones of sexual abuse. Why? In reality people do not repress memories, but it is easy for people to create "memories" that are very difficult to distinguish from real memory. Hypnosis is particularly good at creating fantasy. People who have had extraordinary traumas in there lives do not block out the experience. There may be a few cases of genuine memory repression, but that is characteristic of organic psychosis, not a normal brain. I've heard of plenty of cases where people have repressed memories of non-sexual assault, witnessing the assaults of others, accidents, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by ZootSoot There is a difference between forgetting and repressing . . . Um, yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 One example, I was in a car accident several years ago. I remember events leading up to the accident, I have read the statement I made at the scene, but I have no memory of the accident itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by ZootSoot Wouldn't it be simpler to turn yourself in for the assault? ZS, this is one of my characters. He's not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZootSoot Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by McCoy One example, I was in a car accident several years ago. I remember events leading up to the accident, I have read the statement I made at the scene, but I have no memory of the accident itself. Physical trauma can prevent short term memory from dumping into long term. Repression would require that you go from at one point remembering something to at another point having no recollection of it or awareness of having lost that memory through an act of will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZootSoot Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by Solomon ZS, this is one of my characters. He's not me. My point is that your character assauts a man and then drops him off with people who investigate crimes and leaves them as much evidence as possible. This suggests that they will then determine that your character committed the assault and follow procedures that they would use under those circumstances. So I would think it would be simpler if your character simply surrendered to the authorities following the assault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZootSoot Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Actually I have to change my position a bit. The game mechanical powers used to represent this power have no impact on its importance. What matters is the special effect of the power. Is the child created real, aware, naive as a child, experiencing this as an attack, etc. Assuming that the duplicated child has these characteristics then my characters would do as I said (assuming the characters have knowledge of these things), but there are any number of other things that might be true about these "children" that would elicit a different response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston GM Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Sort of my character. Since I'm the GM, I don't exactly have a character. However, one recurring NPC is a vigilante. The Count The Count would consider the duplicates to be "magical simulacrae". While he would consider this to be a "sordid pasttime", he wouldn't see anything inherently illegal in what the man is doing. The man laughs if your character mentions the police. “What would they charge me with? There is no victim.†Laughing in the Count's face is a bad idea. He will tolerate sordid sexual preferences. He's a lot less forgiving about crass and beligerent behavior. And this sounds a lot like a challenge. Assaulting the old man is hardly sporting. The Count wants to see the old man arrested, tried, and convicted. Private Investigators with cameras are cheap and plentiful. The old man likes to have sex with the blinds open. A reporter with the local newspaper gets an exclusive story on the old man's behavior. The police get photographs anonymously mailed to them. The public, the press and the police all start giving the old man a lot more attention than he ever wanted. Then two children come forward claiming to be victims.... (The Count has no ability to tamper with the memories of others. He does, however, possess exceptional people skills. It wouldn't be too difficult for him to locate a couple children with a knack for lying, and then coach them into being state witnesses.) The case gets assigned to the judge who is most likely to be hostile. The prosecution gets tips on which jurors to exclude (tips that are uncannily accurate). The Count wouldn't stoop to bribing or blackmailing the jury (it's not sporting). Bribing or blackmailing the defense attorney is a lot more entertaining. "It's unfortunate that we did not place a wager on the abilities of the constabulatory. It seems that they have not only arrested you, but also convicted you." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Impudite Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 May be disturbing to SOME?!! Dude, I had to run to the men's room and puke after reading the opening post and I'm a freak'n demon for crying out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 No specific character, but the most obvious answer to me is to arrange for some photographs of this guy's nocturnal activities to make their way to police and press. Can he be charged? Photos may not be adequate evidence, so probably not. But tried and convicted by the press may well be enough to let him suffer as he deserves. [Certainly, many characters may have more extreme reactions, but this seems a viable one for CvK characters.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Worldmaker Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 The Shield would ram an invulnerable finger through the man's forhead, then use the man's bathroom to wash the brain matter off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZootSoot Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 Originally posted by Hugh Neilson No specific character, but the most obvious answer to me is to arrange for some photographs of this guy's nocturnal activities to make their way to police and press. Can he be charged? Photos may not be adequate evidence, so probably not. But tried and convicted by the press may well be enough to let him suffer as he deserves. [Certainly, many characters may have more extreme reactions, but this seems a viable one for CvK characters.] The real problem with this "solution" is that,whatever the status of this man's actions, taking photos of it and distributing them would violate child pornography laws . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 ORIGINAL SOLUTION (my post): No specific character, but the most obvious answer to me is to arrange for some photographs of this guy's nocturnal activities to make their way to police and press. Can he be charged? Photos may not be adequate evidence, so probably not. But tried and convicted by the press may well be enough to let him suffer as he deserves. [Certainly, many characters may have more extreme reactions, but this seems a viable one for CvK characters.] Originally posted by ZootSoot The real problem with this "solution" is that,whatever the status of this man's actions, taking photos of it and distributing them would violate child pornography laws . . . If photos of his images violate laws, so do his images, which would mean he does have a problem. Now we get to how concerned the PC is of his own legal status. For a character to whom the rule of law is very important, this may not be a viable solution (or may be one where he needs to overcome the limitation for what he perceives as the "greater good"). Such a character is unlikely to simply kill the "offender", and this provides him with another, less extreme aproach. It'snot a "four colour" solution, but, as a lot of posters have noted, this isn't really a four colour situation. If the choices come down to breaching the law in some fashion, or letting this guy continue on his merry way, I would anticipate a lot of characters will see the former as the lesser of two evils. Now, a SMART hero might also obtain legal advice before proceeding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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