tkdguy Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Okay, this thought has been going around in my head for a while. I was thinking of a different kind of fantasy genre. A little more realistic, in the sense that the laws of science apply (for the most part anyway). The world goes around its sun. Evolution and continental drift took place. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. There still are elves and orcs, but they evolved from subraces of humanity. Only their relative isolation saved them from extinction. Dragons likewise are very large lizards. Instead of breathing fire, maybe they spit venom or some substance corrosive to human flesh. As for magic, it would be fairly low-powered. Perhaps magic is psychic or psionic in nature. Maybe it is based on chi. Of course, both sources may be available simultaneously. Perhaps the wizards use psionics, while the priests harness chi. Of course, this would still be a medieval society. Superstition and intolerance toward outsiders and/or differing views would prevail. Religion may have a strong role in the campaign, or it may be toned down. Wars are still fought with sword and lance. Feudalism is still the predominant system in society. Any suggestions and critiques would be most welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 My only suggestion would be that if you want wars to be fought with sword and lance, magic needs to be restrained. There are a lot of ways of doing it - you could rule that iron inhibits magic use (for example, each kilogram of ferrous metal exerts a 1d6 explosive Drain vs magic), or it could be that magic is hard to do (require skill rolls and go heavy on the penalties - for example rule that "in combat" is an inappropriate use for the skill) or it has some negative side effect (if it's Ch'i based, using Ch'i causes a Ch'i imbalance, etc). Doesn't matter how it's done, just so long as it's done. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Very easily accomplished. Dont allow MPP or VPP for magic users (ECs tend to be expensive enough to not be too disruptive in low magic), and establish hard guidelines limiting magic. It has to be able to do something, or else no one will play a magic user, but you can do things like place an AP cap, insist that all magic be Invisible to at least the 5 usual senses (which raises the cost of non-subtle flashy spells by +3/4 in most cases); you could even place a overhead restrictions on access to magic with access Talents, and of course the old stand buy of requiring a skill roll. I posted a thread on this forum a few weeks ago about a Magic System called "Aeldenari". It is aimed at a lower/more subtle magic feel and it might be a good place for you to start for at least one of the types of magic you mention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 and heres a link: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12048 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted January 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Thanks, guys. I had envisioned magic to be of a non-combative type ie, no powers that directly cause damage. They would be used for healing or feats of strength. But I will take a 2nd look at the link after I come home from work. I also planned to limit the number of sentient races in the world. Also, since all races are just subtypes of humanity, interbreeding would be possible. I actually got this idea from re-reading Elfquest. The elves and trolls were descended from aliens, but I discarded that bit for this campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joen00b Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 I actually enjoy running low-magic, grittier campaigns, personally. I guess my group enjoys playing in them as I can keep them going for years... or maybe they're just junkies... My world was one a high fantasy world (the sins of youth, Monty Haul campaigning, etc), but as the eons went by, many of the old magics were lost or destroyed. In one campaign alone, the Elves had all but been eradicated, and they were the only holders of the Evocation/Invocation magics (in AD&D terms: Offensive spells like Fireball and Lightning Bolt). That made for some VERY interesting magic manipulation by a really good player in order to have offensive capabilities. He did some very unique things using some standard science stuff with heat exapansion and such to get beautiful results. Aside from one other person, he was the best magic User player I had ever seen in game. Now, after all these years, the 'apocolypse' is coming. I've been running the world for 18+ years now and I've run every other kind of campaign, so I am currently writing an Armegeddon type scenario that starts off with a small rumble and builds up as the characters gain power. If all goes well, it should take a year or two to complete, but I've onyl written a month or two of gaming so far. The world is low magic, some 'artifacts' still reside and are worth a King's ransom. These are held by the Church for the most part, but still a few menial magic items are floating about. Magic Users are rather rare because throughout the eons, magics keep getting lost and forgotten. The sheer amount of Ruins above and below the earth are astounding, and many have been scoured for anything worth of value. The Church runs the world, but is highly corrupt, the King has a tenative grip on his throne in the land they begin in. A failed war against the indigenous race (orcs, who are not necessarily evil, but more akin to the American Indians of the 1600/1700's) has led to a small revolt and many slaves were freed in the chaos... basically, it's not looking good for his reign right now. Instead of starting the campaign all peachy and sunchine filled, I'm starting it off more dark and morose. The players will decide where it goes from there. I'm aiming for a bit more of reality in the campaign, them being just barely above Serfs aren't going to have any special breaks, they're just normal Joe's that fought in a losing war and are traveling back home when things start in motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Re: "Realistic" fantasy Originally posted by tkdguy I was thinking of a different kind of fantasy genre. A little more realistic, in the sense that the laws of science apply (for the most part anyway). The world goes around its sun. Evolution and continental drift took place. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. (SNIP) Any suggestions and critiques would be most welcome. Use Harn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zarglif69 Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Re: "Realistic" fantasy Originally posted by tkdguy Dragons likewise are very large lizards. Instead of breathing fire, maybe they spit venom or some substance corrosive to human flesh. If you want a low fantasy fire-breathing dragon, you could have it produce helium or some other flammible gas in some organ, and light it with an electric charge arcing between its teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Re: Re: "Realistic" fantasy Originally posted by zarglif69 If you want a low fantasy fire-breathing dragon, you could have it produce helium or some other flammible gas in some organ, and light it with an electric charge arcing between its teeth. The old Day of the Dragons cartoon Dragons did this IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Re: Re: "Realistic" fantasy Originally posted by zarglif69 If you want a low fantasy fire-breathing dragon, you could have it produce helium or some other flammible gas in some organ, and light it with an electric charge arcing between its teeth. This is how the "REAL" dragon worked in the live "Conan The Barbarian" show at Universal Studios. I'm not sure if it's still there; i'sbeen a long time since the governor made those movies. It was very impressive. I'm not sure what kind of gas was used, probably propane or something fairly normal like that. I know it wasn't helium, because it's not flamable Another choice would be Greek Fire - which really existed. "Realistic" magic could also be based on alchemy. RW alchemists didn't really think of themselves as magicians. They were "scientist" sort of. Granted their "science" was based mostly on superstition, folk myths, and totally non-empirical guesses, but they were at least trying to be scientific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Actually, I think you meant hydrogen; helium is anything BUT flammable. (Remember all the recriminations after the Hindenberg disaster because the U.S. wouldn't sell non-flammable helium to Nazi Germany?) There are a number of relatively simple chemical reactions that can liberate hydrogen from organic compounds without needing to use electricity to break molecules apart. Or perhaps they could use methane (also easily produced from organic sources) as the fuel for their fire breath. Or perhaps is phospherine-based, like the Pern dragons. If the use hydrogen, though, you get the added bonus of much larger dragons being able to fly (due in part to hydrogen lift) if their great, bulky bodies were mostly hollow gas reseviors surrounded by sheaths of muscle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherSkip Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Originally posted by Dr. Anomaly Remember all the recriminations after the Hindenberg disaster because the U.S. wouldn't sell non-flammable helium to Nazi Germany? No I don't and i'm willing to bet you don't really remember that either... (think about it) Ya know for a bit more on the esoteric side DON'T have everyone devolvoed from Humans. Have them all come from Orcs. and have it a big campaign secret. Have a huge ancient alliance from the Gods(or their priests interpreting as such) between Orcs and Lizardmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted January 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Having everyone evolve from orcs would be an interesting twist. I just chose humans as the original race so that they could interbreed with elves and orcs, but elves and orcs cannot interbreed with each other, as their DNA would be too different to be compatible. Then again, I read in Discover Magazine years ago that Cro Magnons and Neandethals were unable or unwilling to interbreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Originally posted by tkdguy Then again, I read in Discover Magazine years ago that Cro Magnons and Neandethals were unable or unwilling to interbreed. Im no expert, but I think this has been overthrown -- some scientists now believe that Neanderthals just interbred with Cro-Magnons until they were no longer a distinct group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qamar Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Originally posted by Dr. Anomaly If the use hydrogen, though, you get the added bonus of much larger dragons being able to fly (due in part to hydrogen lift) if their great, bulky bodies were mostly hollow gas reseviors surrounded by sheaths of muscle. Not to mention a great opportunity to laugh at your players when they hit that seriously injured dragon with one last fireball... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Or a flaming arrow... "Shish-bom-boom!" [The Great Carsoni] "Describe the sound a dragon makes when it explodes."[/Carsoni] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intrope Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Originally posted by AnotherSkip Ya know for a bit more on the esoteric side DON'T have everyone devolvoed from Humans. Have them all come from Orcs. and have it a big campaign secret. Man, and people think our evolution debates are heated But I do like this idea; you might even try making Orcs in some way actually 'the superior race'; maybe they are a truly warlike race (many combat advantages)--too warlike, they collapsed into endless civil war allowing other races to devolve and arise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 How about this: 1. The few remaining Australopithecus tribes fled into the forests and jungles, evolving into the elves. Not my idea actually; someone else did this already. 2. The surviving Neanderthals isolated themselves and evolved into the orcs. 3. Cro Magnons, of course, evolved into Homo Sapiens. Keep in mind that the elves and orcs are just as evolved as the humans. They too eventually ventured out on their own, discovered how to forge metal, and had their respective Bronze Age and Iron Age. They have their own languages, cultures, and religions. They aren't confined to Europe either, even if the campaign takes place there. There would be elves and orcs from the other continents as well, although maybe not all of them. It depends on where their ancestors survived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZootSoot Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Re: "Realistic" fantasy Originally posted by tkdguy {SNIP}Of course, this would still be a medieval society. Superstition and intolerance toward outsiders and/or differing views would prevail. Religion may have a strong role in the campaign, or it may be toned down. Wars are still fought with sword and lance. Feudalism is still the predominant system in society. Any suggestions and critiques would be most welcome. If you want realism you need to be aware that a lot of "typical medieval mindset" ideas are modern prejudice rather than part of the society itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZootSoot Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Killer Shrike Im no expert, but I think this has been overthrown -- some scientists now believe that Neanderthals just interbred with Cro-Magnons until they were no longer a distinct group. Actually, that's the theory that has been overthrown. genetic analysis has shown that homo sapiense neanderthalensis and homo sapiens sapiens could not successfully interbreed (though I am sceptical that the state of art can actually determine this from pure genetic analysis), but the evidence is also clear that the two groups existed side by side without genocidal conflict for millennia until the neanderthals went extinct (for whatever reason). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Qamar Not to mention a great opportunity to laugh at your players when they hit that seriously injured dragon with one last fireball... Oh, the humanity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Another way to make it realistic is to not make elves always good and orcs always bad. Humans run the whole spectrum of morality, so why can't the other races? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugfromthearth Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 a key thing to remember is that to be properly medieval, magic and religion have to work. a "medieval" world in which the players know that priests have no power, gods and devils do not exist, and witches cannot really curse them, would not be anything like the historic medieval world. Heck just saying definitively to your players that psychic powers do not exist, nor does magic or ghosts, would eliminate a lot of the mindset of the modern world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 In other words, the players know magic doesn't work, but their characters believe it does. I think they can handle that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupus Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Magic: this may just look like skills. A healer may specialise in using herbs and oils to cure diseases and heal injuries - possibly no more than a 1d6 healing (usable once on any individual), or perhaps just a high First Aid roll. Heck, you could call access to 'PS: doctor' a magical skill. Under this system, magic is something like Conan stuff. Thulsa Doom didn't have a mind control spell - he just had Conversation 28- and a Presence of 40. 'Course, he could also turn into a snake and turn snakes into arrows... in the film, at least. I haven't read the books. And, of course, a 'Wizard' may simply be a sage - someone who knows a lot of stuff. Simple divinations would be an enormous help in a low-magic game. And I like the thing of orcs being the original race. The idea of them being naturally warlike works, too - they aren't evil, they're just naturally warlike and destructive. It's a psychological thing, so they can resist it. Just make sure you resist the urge to make them Fantasy Klingons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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