Superhero Package Deals, by Genre: Four Color

[KA.]

Okay,

I got this idea from a post I made to another thread:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=247767#post247767

 

Often, when a GM asks his players to create characters for a new campaign, they have to go through endless revisions to get the right "feel".

 

This problem can come from misunderstandings as to the "Age" or genre of the campaign.

 

So, I had an idea.

 

A "Package Deal" for each Genre!

 

Before I hear too much moaning about "railroading" or "not letting the players follow their concept", I am not actually advocating that GM's force these package deals on their players. What I am looking for are sets of Disadvantages, Skill, Perks, etc. that would make good guidelines for character creation, not strictly imposed rules.

 

Also, I am mainly looking for the "essentials"; things that are, if not universal, at least extremely common to the genre.

Ex. Not every single Golden Age Hero has a Secret ID, but the overwhelming majority of them do, so that would be appropriate for the list.

 

Also, include any skills, Perks, Talents, etc. that are, more or less, universal.

 

And, The traditional "Package Deal" rules are out the window for this. I don't really care what the Cost ends up being.

Since I mostly am looking for Disadvantages, it will most likely be Negative.

 

Here is an example, just off the top of my head, to get you started.

 

Four Color Package Deal

 

Cost Martial Arts Maneuver

4 Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort

3 Cross: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, 4d6 Strike

4 Jab: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 4d6 Strike

Martial Arts Cost: 11

 

Cost Skill

3 Oratory 11-

5 +3 PSL vs. OCV modifier on Pulling Your Punch

Skills Cost: 8

 

 

Cost Talent

6 Simulate Death (No One Could Have Survived That!) (+3 to roll)

Talents Cost: 6

 

Total Character Cost: 25

 

Pts. Disadvantage

15 Code Against Killing: (Common, Strong)

15 Code of Honor: (Common, Strong)

20 Dependent NPC: 8- (Incompetent; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID)

10 Secret ID: (Frequently, Minor)

 

Disadvantage Points: 60

 

Okay, have at it!

 

KA.

[Bengal]

That's a very clever idea. I don't know exactly where to take it, but it's a clever idea.

[Intrope]

Genre package deals? not a bad idea at all...

 

For Four-color, I'd think PSL with the Pulling the Punch manoveur would be good (to make it free).

[Barrier]

Re: Superhero Package Deals, by Genre: Four Color

 

Originally posted by KA.

Okay,

I got this idea from a post I made to another thread:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=247767#post247767

 

Often, when a GM asks his players to create characters for a new campaign, they have to go through endless revisions to get the right "feel".

 

This problem can come from misunderstandings as to the "Age" or genre of the campaign.

 

So, I had an idea.

 

A "Package Deal" for each Genre!

KA.

 

Not a bad idea but where's the CVK, most classic 4 color heroes have it.

[KA.]

Re: Re: Superhero Package Deals, by Genre: Four Color

 

Originally posted by Barrier

Not a bad idea but where's the CVK, most classic 4 color heroes have it.

 

Quite right, it will be added.

 

KA.

[KA.]

Originally posted by Intrope

Genre package deals? not a bad idea at all...

 

For Four-color, I'd think PSL with the Pulling the Punch manoveur would be good (to make it free).

 

Interesting Idea.

I'll see what everyone else thinks before I add it, though.

 

KA.

[proditor]

I'm not sure I get why they'd have Simulate Death?

[Supreme Serpent]

Originally posted by proditor

I'm not sure I get why they'd have Simulate Death?

 

Perhaps as a rationale for getting left alone by killer villains?

 

"Ah, Spider-Man is finally dead! Now I can fly to the water plant and release the Goblin formula! No one can stop me now!" Exit Green Goblin, stage left.

 

Spidey now recovers, breaks free, and heads off to the water plant...

[proditor]

Possibly Oratory? I seem to remember a lot more speeches back in the day. And it seemed that almost any Hero could just wow the crowd by opening their mouths.

 

Additionally, the Psych disad: Must analyze opponents most recent attack out loud. "Great Scott! Sinestro has turned the entire water supply for Montreal into Kool Aid!" (Common, Strong)

 

A little quirky, but I just forced my way through "Crisis on Multiple Earths" and I'm still shell shocked.

[KA.]

Originally posted by Supreme Serpent

Perhaps as a rationale for getting left alone by killer villains?

 

"Ah, Spider-Man is finally dead! Now I can fly to the water plant and release the Goblin formula! No one can stop me now!" Exit Green Goblin, stage left.

 

Spidey now recovers, breaks free, and heads off to the water plant...

 

Exactly Right Supreme Serpent!

I didn't realize that I had lost something in translation from Hero Designer.

The "display" value for this was: "No One could have survived that!"

And it was meant to simulate exactly the sort of thing that S.S. indicated.

This is such a standard of Four Color that I felt it was needed.

Villains never put another round in the head,

check carefully for vital signs,

etc. etc.,

they just always assume that the Hero is dead.

And, Heroes always come back.

 

KA.

[proditor]

RE: Simulate Death. Oh, that's pretty cool then.

[KA.]

Originally posted by proditor

Possibly Oratory? I seem to remember a lot more speeches back in the day. And it seemed that almost any Hero could just wow the crowd by opening their mouths.

 

Additionally, the Psych disad: Must analyze opponents most recent attack out loud. "Great Scott! Sinestro has turned the entire water supply for Montreal into Kool Aid!" (Common, Strong)

 

A little quirky, but I just forced my way through "Crisis on Multiple Earths" and I'm still shell shocked.

 

I agree with the Oratory.

Back then every character could reel off a good speech, or at least people reacted that way, no matter what they said!

 

Here is the latest version:

 

Four Color Package Deal

 

Cost Martial Arts Maneuver

4 Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort

3 Cross: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, 4d6 Strike

4 Jab: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 4d6 Strike

Martial Arts Cost: 11

 

Cost Skill

3 Oratory 11-

5 +3 PSL vs. OCV modifier on Pulling Your Punch

Skills Cost: 8

 

 

Cost Talent

6 Simulate Death (No One Could Have Survived That!) (+3 to roll)

Talents Cost: 6

 

Total Character Cost: 25

 

Pts. Disadvantage

15 Code Against Killing: (Common, Strong)

15 Code of Honor: (Common, Strong)

20 Dependent NPC: 8- (Incompetent; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID)

10 Secret ID: (Frequently, Minor)

 

Disadvantage Points: 60

 

KA.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by KA.

Interesting Idea.

I'll see what everyone else thinks before I add it, though.

I was going suggest the same thing (PSL's with Pulling the Punch). 4-color heroes never seem to have any difficulty ensuring their attacks don't seriously hurt a target.

[Eosin]

This is a great idea.

[KA.]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth

I was going suggest the same thing (PSL's with Pulling the Punch). 4-color heroes never seem to have any difficulty ensuring their attacks don't seriously hurt a target.

 

Okay, it's in!

I will enter it after I sleep for a while.

If anyone has any suggestions on exactly how many, just post something specific and I will put it in, otherwise I will figure it out when I wake up.

 

KA.

[Crimson Arrow]

This one couldn't really go into a package deal, but is worth considering for the "Golden Age" feel.

 

Psychological Limitation: Avoids using powers (Common, Moderate)

 

I read some JSA reprints from the 1940s and noticed that, in spite of their amazing powers, characters like Green Lantern and Starman preferred to take out people with their fists. They only use their powers in the big finale.

 

It couldn't go in a package deal, as not every character (eg Wildcat or the Atom) has powers; being very good with their fists is their power.

[KA.]

Originally posted by Crimson Arrow

This one couldn't really go into a package deal, but is worth considering for the "Golden Age" feel.

 

Psychological Limitation: Avoids using powers (Common, Moderate)

 

I read some JSA reprints from the 1940s and noticed that, in spite of their amazing powers, characters like Green Lantern and Starman preferred to take out people with their fists. They only use their powers in the big finale.

 

It couldn't go in a package deal, as not every character (eg Wildcat or the Atom) has powers; being very good with their fists is their power.

 

Crimson Arrow,

 

I think this would fall under either "Code of Honor" or some, general Psych Lim like "Fights Fair".

 

Back then, it wasn't considered "sporting" for someone with enhanced Characteristics, AND Superpowers, to use their powers on an Unarmed Normal (or a normal whose weapon could not possibly hurt the Hero).

 

Now days, you can Laser Blast the head off a Normal with a .32 pistol, that couldn't hurt you if you stuck it up your nose and inhaled when you pulled the trigger.

 

But back then, that wasn't considered proper. If you outclasssed someone, you were expected to take them out "man-to-man".

 

That may also explain why thugs didn't try to empty a revolver into the eye of a downed Hero. Both sides had, at least a grudging, respect for each other.

 

Thank goodness we got rid of all that stupid stuff and made comics into snuff films.

 

Sorry for the rant, just woke up.

 

Good suggestion, and I will either fit it into the Package with a Psych Lim, or make a more thorough explanation of "Code of Honor" when this gets written up.

 

Thanks,

 

KA.

[KA.]

Okay, here is the latest version:

 

Four Color Package Deal

 

Cost Martial Arts Maneuver

4 Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort

3 Cross: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, 4d6 Strike

4 Jab: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 4d6 Strike

Martial Arts Cost: 11

 

Cost Skill

3 Oratory 11-

5 +3 PSL vs. OCV modifier on Pulling Your Punch

Skills Cost: 8

 

 

Cost Talent

6 Simulate Death (No One Could Have Survived That!) (+3 to roll)

Talents Cost: 6

 

Total Character Cost: 25

 

Pts. Disadvantage

15 Code Against Killing: (Common, Strong)

15 Code of Honor: (Common, Strong)

20 Dependent NPC: 8- (Incompetent; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID)

10 Secret ID: (Frequently, Minor)

 

Disadvantage Points: 60

 

This is looking good so far, but please feel free to contribute.

 

Also, if anyone has suggestions for other package deals (Iron Age, Silver Age, etc.) please post those too.

 

Thanks,

 

KA.

[Crimson Arrow]

I had thought that the "Code of Honor" Disadvantage was things like not lying, keeping your word, etc.

 

You are right though, using your fists wherever possible probably is part of the specific Four Color Code.

 

Actually, that suggests a design guide for Golden Age heroes, which is that they all have some hand-to-hand combat skill. It wouldn't be part of any package deal, though.

[Doug McCrae]

A few more suggestions:

 

Sidekick - 50% or more of them had a sidekick, usually a kid, occasionally a girlfriend or monkey. Usually the kid/girlfriend would have the same powers, if any, as the hero.

 

Two-fistedness was so common, possibly Fisticuffs as a martial art.

 

Superhuman strength was probably the most common superpower, though most GA heroes were just normal guys who were good in a fight and put on a mask to fight crime.

 

Code of Honour would also extend to intangibility. A bunch of GA heroes could go intangible but they never used it in a fight - just for walking thru walls. No would *ever* choke the life out of an opponent as a cloud of mist. Except a bad guy.

[KA.]

Originally posted by Crimson Arrow

I had thought that the "Code of Honor" Disadvantage was things like not lying, keeping your word, etc.

 

You are right though, using your fists wherever possible probably is part of the specific Four Color Code.

 

Actually, that suggests a design guide for Golden Age heroes, which is that they all have some hand-to-hand combat skill. It wouldn't be part of any package deal, though.

 

I wouldn't see anything wrong with some kind of basic "boxing" package for Golden Age Superheroes.

 

Of course, you already have the basic moves that everyone has.

 

I will take a look.

 

KA.

[Crimson Arrow]

Yes, everyone can theoretically throw a punch, but Golden Age heroes really are quite handy with their fists.

 

I had considered the "Cinematic" brand of Martial Arts, but that seemed a bit OTT. Apart from characters like Judo Master (Judomaster?), Wildcat and the Atom, I'm not sure many Golden Age characters had actual Martial Arts.

 

You could give them two or three dice of HA, 0 END, representing their hand-to-hand skills. THat might work, even with super-strong characters like Hourman, as heroes often seem to hit harder than their raw stats in HERO would dictate.

 

This has come up recently where people have suggested that Spider-Man should either have some Spidey Martial Art or some dice of HA, as he hits harder than 8 or 9d6 (about the level people were discussing).

 

If you put 3d6 HA in the package, then Wildcat would come out with a 12d6 Boxing Hook (assuming a 25 STR, which I'd say is plausible). Ted would use jabs on ordinary hoodlums, saving the bigger punches for bigger foes.

 

However, for characters who actually have Martial Arts, you could go down the DC route and it would be cheaper than a 0 END HA. That was why I wasn't sure it should be part of a package; you are slightly penalising MA characters.

 

Of course, if you don't make the HA 0 END, then three dice will cost only 10 points, cheaper than 3 extra DCs with Martial Arts. However, the HA won't do things such as adding to STR for holding on in a Martial Grab.

[Metaphysician]

Actually, Wildcat would probably be one of the characters to warrant Martial Arts ( boxing to be specific, along with some wrestling and dirty infighting ).

[Crimson Arrow]

Originally posted by Metaphysician

Actually, Wildcat would probably be one of the characters to warrant Martial Arts ( boxing to be specific, along with some wrestling and dirty infighting ).

 

I agree. That's why I said that apart from Wildcat, not many heroes from that era would have had actual Martial Arts.

 

My point was that if you include an HA as part of the "package", you could end up short-changing the few MA characters, who might be better served having extra dice of DCs on their Martial Arts.

[KA.]

First,

Thanks to everyone for all the help.

 

Based on suggestions, and my own conclusions, I have added an extemely basic "Martial Arts" set to this Package.

It only contains: Martial Block, Basic Strike, and Martial Strike.

 

To me, this is enough to represent a competent hand to hand fighter, with a bit of "boxing" in his background, without stepping on the toes of "real boxers" or "Martial Artists"

Those two character types would add maneuvers, and/or Damage Classes, to represent much greater skill.

 

(For one thing, the Martial Throw seems like it would be taboo for anyone other than a "Martial Artist", or perhaps someone with extensive "Commando" training.)

 

The maneuvers I have included only add +2d6 of damage, so they should be "effective" without being "devastating" to a normal thug.

 

Here is the latest version:

 

Four Color Package Deal

 

Cost	Martial Arts Maneuver
4	Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort
3	Cross: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, STR +2d6 Strike
4	Jab: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, STR +2d6 Strike

Martial Arts Cost: 11

 

Cost	Skill
3	Oratory 11-
5	+3 PSL vs. OCV modifier on Pulling Your Punch

Skills Cost: 8

 

 

Cost	Talent
6	Simulate Death (No One Could Have Survived That!) (+3 to roll)

Talents Cost: 6

 

 

Total Character Cost: 25

 

Val	Disadvantages
15	Code Against Killing: (Common; Strong)
15	Code of Honor: (Common; Strong)
20	Dependent NPC: 8- (Incompetent; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID)
10	Secret ID: (Frequently; Minor)

Disadvantage Points: 60

 

Total Package Cost: -35

 

Comments? Suggestions?

 

KA.