Harry Dresden

[Rick]

Just curious if anyone else here has read these novels. Not great literature, but amazingly fun to read. For those who don't know, Harry Dresden is the only proffessional wizard in the Chicago tellephone book. He's a 40's type Noir P.I./Wizard, in modern Chi-town.

 

Seems almost tailor made for a Modern Fantasy campaign.

[sbarron]

I've read them. Fun stuff.

[Chuk]

Yep, it'd be great. Hard to match up to Hero, though -- the magic is kind of vague. I'd probably do it as Fudge or something like that, maybe even Risus.

[badger3k]

I've only read one book, but its interesting. I agree that it might be tough to model in Hero, but I can't remember too much of the magic. In a similar vein, the movie (IIRC) Cast a Deadly Spell comes to mind (it involves a detective, monsters, magic, and the necronomicon I believe). Reminded me to look up both soon.

[Rick]

Actually Magic in the Dresden Files isn't vague at all. Jim Butcher goes into great detail about it. It's based on how much emotion your will to invest in each spell.

 

Dresden only casts a Handful of spells on the fly, but has several Focus's bought W/charges for his more powerful mojo. Spells are either Incantation (any language or psuedo language will do, it's just focus your mind) or a skill roll. End is based on an End reserve but you cn dip into your own end, probably at x2 end.

 

Dresden himself has been described as the wizard with the most Raw power anyone has seen. Unfortunatly his fine control over spells is somewhat lacking.

[Chuk]

Originally posted by Rick

Actually Magic in the Dresden Files isn't vague at all. Jim Butcher goes into great detail about it. It's based on how much emotion your will to invest in each spell.

 

Maybe vague is the wrong word...variable? Flexible? Anyway, you'd certainly have to have a VPP for Harry (in addition to his talismans (shouldn't that be Talismen?)). I agree that Butcher does go into interesting detail about the magic, I just think it'd be hard to model the process in Hero. Certainly not impossible.

[MagePro]

Re: Harry Dresden

 

So, has anyone tried to do Harry in 5th Ed?

[mattingly]

Re: Harry Dresden

 

There's a Dresden Files RPG in the works, using the Spirit of the Century system.

["V"]

Re: Harry Dresden

 

... (in addition to his talismans (shouldn't that be Talismen?)). ...

 

 

Telesmata, I am informed.

[MagePro]

Re: Harry Dresden

 

There's a Dresden Files RPG in the works' date=' using the Spirit of the Century system.[/quote']

 

I'm not familar with that system. That doesn't mean it's not any good. I'd just like to find out if someone has already done some ground work in the character and a matching magic system.

 

Dresden doesn't seem to be totally reliant on a focus as per the TV series, but it might be slightly different than the books. He appears to use low end magic or just to charge up things (give END to a talisman?) with just a wave of his hand or simple TK. I've heard it said that he uses the drum and hockey stick to focus his power and without them, his magic is pretty wild and powerful.

 

Has anyone read the books enough to know? What kind of power levels are we talking?

 

The next item I'd like to look over is Bob and if he is a follower, contact or what.

[Karmakaze]

Re: Harry Dresden

 

I'm not familar with that system. That doesn't mean it's not any good. I'd just like to find out if someone has already done some ground work in the character and a matching magic system.

 

The website's here: http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/

I know somewhere there was a free download of the FATE system (which I think reflects the style they're going for). It's one of those narrativist systems wherein you use your skills or action points to be able to be able to affect the plot, more than having extremely nailed down stats and powers.

 

For something as open ended as Dresden-verse magic, that's probably a good thing. Pretty much anyone who works magic in the series pulls new abilities out of a hat on a regular basis.

 

Dresden doesn't seem to be totally reliant on a focus as per the TV series, but it might be slightly different than the books. He appears to use low end magic or just to charge up things (give END to a talisman?) with just a wave of his hand or simple TK. I've heard it said that he uses the drum and hockey stick to focus his power and without them, his magic is pretty wild and powerful.

 

Has anyone read the books enough to know? What kind of power levels are we talking?

 

Harry's a lot more powerful in the books because (a) books don't need an sfx budget, and ( it's easier to have the audience buy really pulling out the stops once or twice a novel, in a series of nine novels than every week for twenty-some episodes a tv season

 

In the books, the staff and rod (represented as the hockey stick and drumstick in the tv show) really do function as foci (in the old "the concentration of attention or energy" sense) -- he can throw large blasts of energy (usually fire), but it tends to hit more than he's aiming at and/or set the area where he's standing on fire. The props let him aim and control the amount of output. Think of Cyclops' visor - without the visor, Cyclops only has one setting (wide beam, destroy everything in range); with the visor, he can do all sorts of fine manipulation.

 

They can also let him store up energy. The other props we see in the books are his pentacle (generates light and faith-based energy to repel some types of vampire), his bracelet (lets him deflect attacks), and some silver rings (kinetic energy batteries, which he can discharge to give his punches some extra impact). Arguably, later in the series, his trenchcoat counts, as he enchants it to carry extra protection, but that's a more passive sort of spell - he doesn't activate it or alter the function on the fly.

 

He also does potions, which have whatever function the plot requires, but take prep time and research.

 

The next item I'd like to look over is Bob and if he is a follower' date=' contact or what.[/quote']

 

I'd call him a follower. He's always on hand when needed, and has a lot of useful knowledge.

[Philipe d'Oro]

Re: Harry Dresden

 

I'm not ready to put the time needed into stating up this series, but I have thought about it. Just a few things off the top of my head:

 

1) In the books, Bob is an air elemental, not a ghost, and his primary attributes are photographic recall, huge KS: Magic, contacts (spirits and magical entities), and sex addict. Quite a different character from the TV series.

 

2) The wand and the hockey stick focus and control Harry's magic, they don't power it.

 

3) Mages use obscure and nonsense incantations to cast spells, but they do this to insulate themselves from the magic. They can cast without incantations, but the spell harms the caster as it's cast (this could be simply simulated by the variant rule in FH that you can ignore a spell limitation by paying extra End).

 

4) End is a big deal in the books and LTE even more so. Spell cost end.

 

5) Harry can brew up 1-4 potions in an evening if he doesn't have anything else to do. They use mostly mundane ingrediants, but some have special componants. These potions have a shelf life though, I'm guessing a few weeks.

 

6) Harry's world has: Elves, fairies, the never-never (alternate dimension, shaped by will, home to Elves, ghosts and who knows what), ghosts, 3 types of vampires, 4 or 5 types of werewolves, holy water, holy swords, a White Council (High Council in the TV series), of mages. . .

 

7) Oh hey, good to know, the White Council's number one rule: Don't kill any human by magic. 'Black' magic in the TV series, but just magic in the books. Self defence is a valid excuse, but don't wear it out. Killing other intellegent beings seems to be OK.

 

The Dresden files seem just made for adaptation. Jim Butcher really lays out the ground rules in his books. I'm hardly a Hero guru to be adapting stuff, but if nobody takes this on by the time I finish the series, I just might.

 

PdO

[mattingly]

Re: Harry Dresden

 

I'd just like to find out if someone has already done some ground work in the character and a matching magic system.

The RPG writer is a friend of Jim Butcher, and hosts a Dresden Files podcast, The Butcher Block. I figure if anyone can match up the show, the novels, and a game, he's got the best shot at it.

[MagePro]

Re: Harry Dresden

 

WOW!

 

You guys ROCK!

 

I'm so excited you guys have chipped in to help out, so if I sound a little disjointed, forgive me. Let me try and sum up some of my conclusions according to everyone's input.

 

I'm sure by now, you are asking what type of campaign is this for? We are working on a RIFTS game. Our characters were just before the Great Cataclysim, frozen. They were meant to be awakened after a few months. 500 years later, they wake up and discover a new world. They are less than two miles from a large ley line and those that were inclined towards magic or psionics are felling powered up. So, imagine Harry in this situation. They only things he's got left are his wand, staff and Bob. The only 'home' he has now is a small shared area of a science lab and a crash-chair inside a redesigned stealth APC on its way to Dayton, OH from some place in northwestern Montana.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong. Harry has a huge VPP, but he can't hit the broad side of a barn without a wand or staff (or tons of time and/or END). The attacks are probably area effect or something that prevents it from being too focused as a power and may cost more END than normal. The other small things he does, like opening locks are more than just Lock Picking. Could it be Lock Picking through TK or is it something more like a Transform from Locked to Unlocked?

 

His skills/KS's are formidable. He doesn't appear to be much of a combat monger, but he is a planner with lots of enchanted foci. Some foci may take time to charge up, some are automatic. (Someplace, there is a thread on missle deflection being automatic as I'm assuming it works even when he's asleep. But that's a whole 'nother kettle of worms.) Not counting his 'office' or lab, even though he needs the protective items in his office and his lab makes things easier to store stuff in... I just wanted to figure out Harry and his usual carrying items.

 

Bob... Ok, so I've seen some possibliities in the TV version being both a Follower or a Contact. I wouldn't put him in as an NPC, but he could be counted as a Contact Spirit with useful abilities and knowleges. I don't know if you can legally place a limitation (like tied to so many meters from the skull) on a Contact or not. Either way, it may allow you to have Bob with more points than you could get as a Follower as the defination is more open for a Contact. For about 34 points, it gives an 18 or less roll, Spirit, Extremely useful skills and a Very Good Relationship. I decided against 'Slavishly Loyal' for some reason.

 

In HD v3, there is a multiplier I didn't quite understand at first until I read it in Fantasy Hero, but I think Bob is still might be cheaper to do as a Contact. Bob might be considered x3 or x4, but I'm open to ideas. X4 puts Bob at 68 points, so depending upon how many points Bob turns out to be, you can build a pretty heafty Bob-the-Follower for 320 points.

 

Technically, with the amount of his involvement with Harry, by definition, Follower would be a more accurate description of Bob's function. But, it's difficult to do 'spirits' of Bob's caliber from the few books I have. There used to be a good book that had spirit rules, but I haven't seen one for 5th Ed. Is there one?

 

When Harry's uncle re-appeared, Bob did not betray Harry to his previous 'owner.' Other than the fact that Bob must have soem free-will where that is concerned Do the books explain in more detail just how Harry's uncle came across Bob and how 'owership' was transferred? If figured knowing that would help establish how they (Harry & Bob) are tied together.

 

I don't think we are going to worry about the 'Council,' the Wardens or the others as RIFTS offers enough confusion.

 

However, the deal with tech not working in some areas and magic betting harder to do the further away from a ley line might be a little more complicated. Plus, we are trying to figure out the properties of a Ley Line. Any ideas on that would be helpful too!

 

OK, I'll now, THANKS!

[Nolgroth]

Re: Harry Dresden

 

Ley Lines

Hard to really define them. I would say they act as both an Aid and possibly an END Reserve, Requires a Skill Roll to tap into that. If it's one of those automatic things that just happens as you get closer, I would buy some Explosion or Reduced by Range or something that indicates that it gets weaker the further you are from it.

 

How about a Standard Effect Succor to all Magical Powers, with a House Rule that acts like explosion. The further away, the fewer dice of boost you get. Maybe megascale the hexes so the loss is in km instead of m.

 

 

Bob

Contact as opposed to Follower. Just my opinion, but Bob is more of an information resource as opposed to a Sidekick.

 

 

Power vs. Finesse

Skill levels with a Focus Limitation? Not sure how to write this up yet.

 

 

VPP

Yeah, but most of his VPP are tricks and potions. I'd keep it small. Harry mostly relies on his enchanted items in the ol' combat situations. For anything really ookie, I would say that extra time to prep the ritual would be a must.

[Karmakaze]

Re: Harry Dresden

 

Correct me if I'm wrong. Harry has a huge VPP' date=' but he can't hit the broad side of a barn without a wand or staff (or tons of time and/or END). The attacks are probably area effect or something that prevents it from being too focused as a power and may cost more END than normal. [/quote']

 

Part of the problem is aim, and part of the problem is that fire attacks tend to be AoE and he doesn't have Personal Immunity... We do see him casually lighting candles with just a small gesture and incantation.

 

The other small things he does, like opening locks are more than just Lock Picking. Could it be Lock Picking through TK or is it something more like a Transform from Locked to Unlocked?...

His skills/KS's are formidable. He doesn't appear to be much of a combat monger...

 

Amusingly, Harry does most of the Lockpicking type stuff the old-fashioned way (although at a rather high skill level). His mother was a wizard and his father was a mundane stage magician. His mother died in childbirth, so he was raised by his dad and learned Lockpicking, Sleight of Hand, and escape artistry before his magic abilities manifested.

 

Wizards in the Dresdenverse are impaired by ropes and gags (a lot of magic is built with Gestures, Incantations, or both), and there have been a few points when Harry's saved his skin with good old Lockpicking/Contortionist.

 

Bob... Ok' date=' so I've seen some possibliities in the TV version being both a Follower or a Contact..... I decided against 'Slavishly Loyal' for some reason. [/quote']

 

That's probably right. Harry has to bribe Book!Bob with trashy romance novels or promises of roaming time. It's implied that Harry could force Bob to do stuff, but he prefers an ally to an enslaved servant. Also, as far as being bound to the skull... Book!Bob needs Harry's permission to leave the skull. When he does, he's very insubstantial and can't travel far without a host. Harry often lets Bob possess the cat in order to go roaming.

 

Do the books explain in more detail just how Harry's uncle came across Bob and how 'owership' was transferred? If figured knowing that would help establish how they (Harry & Bob) are tied together.

 

Yes. In the books, Bob technically has to serve whoever is holding the skull. (note, spoilers up to book 6)

Bob had originally belonged to a very evil necromancer. I think that's who bound him in the first place. Justin Du Morne (Morningway in the TV show) had been one of the warriors for the Council and when they finally took out the necromancer, her took Bob from the necromancer's lab and claimed it for himself. As in the TV show, he did use Bob as a tutor. When Harry had defeated Du Morne, he took Bob away with him to help him escape.

 

 

Note that in the books, Justin Du Morne (Morningway in the TV show) isn't really Harry's uncle. He adopted Harry out of an orphanage just as his magic abilities started to manifest. The timeline there is that Harry's mother died in childbirth, and then his father died when he was a very young teen. He spent some time in orphanages, and was then adopted by Du Morne. He trained with Du Morne for a few years, until the incident when he killed Du Morne in self defense. At this point, he was still a minor. Another wizard finished his training until he was ready to go out on his own. The TV series streamlined that a lot.

[MagePro]

Re: Harry Dresden

 

WONDERFUL!!!

 

As per the TV series, he did, on several occasions, wiggle his finger at a lock and it opened. So, I would have to say, if based on the TV series, magic was the source of that ability. However, I would never discount his own ability (no doubt picked up from his father) to pick locks or squeeze through impossible positions. I'm guessing there were a few areas of departure from the books we haven't even hinted at yet.

 

Bob is limited in his range from the skull, but I'm not sure what the radius would be. As for possession of the cat, I have yet to see any 5th Ed version of the Spirit Rules.

 

This brought about a question that should be in another area, but it concerns a scientiest having his spirit trapped in a mechanical body. The Dr. is able to control the body, but, aside from the obvious issues, he's still a spirit controlling an automaton. A bit different than Bob and a cat, but Spirit Shift and Possession are missing from the books now.

 

I'm off in search of the threads about Spirit rules for 5th Ed.!

[Maur]

Re: Harry Dresden

 

One thing the show never seems to really touch upon is the fact that his level of magic and technology don't really mix well. He can't go near computers or they puff smoke and die. His car (an old VW Beetle) works for him (when it isn't too beat up) because it is lower tech. Electricity doesn't work for him for very long, so heaters, AC, elevators, etc.. fail pretty regularly around him if he doesn't try hard to hold back his magic (aura?). So, he gets lots of nice cold showers since water pressure works, but not a water heater. He uses candles since light bulbs don't seem to last long.

 

His blasting rod is a fire focus, his staff is an air focus.. Without them he uses up a lot of energy to try and get off similar, though less controlled, effects. He can't do TK. He simulates it with air control (such as summoning his staff to him by using the wind to pick it up). His duster has been enchanted from the beginning (Storm Front) to act as a barrier providing him with rPD/PD. The charm bracelet stops kinetic energy, but not other forms like heat or cold. He can control the shape and orientation of the shield, but he can't keep it up without some effort (so it doesn't stay up if he isn't awake and choosing to power it). The rings build up kinetic energy by absorbing energy when he moves (making it take a little more effort to walk, but not noticeable).

[input.jack]

Re: Harry Dresden

 

Count me in as a BIG fan of the Dresden books!

 

Jim Butcher is an old friend of some good friends of mine, but Ive only met him once (hed moved away by the time I was hanging out with these people regularly). However, in person youll be pleased to know that personality-wise, hes A LOT like Harry...only not as tall.

 

Thats really the big difference.

 

Oh, and Jim wont admit to being able to cast spells

 

(One of the naturally funniest guys Ive ever met)

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Harry Dresden

 

I'm surprised nobody chimed in for Bob written up as an AI level computer yet.

[input.jack]

Re: Harry Dresden

 

I'm surprised nobody chimed in for Bob written up as an AI level computer yet.

 

Actually, thats a terrific idea!