A Mind Control Question...

[GrimJesta]

Alright, Ive said that I play 4th ed (until revised comes out), so 5th may answer this question for me. But I have no way of knowing, so Ill ask you all.

 

I want to create a Mind Control that causes despair. It wont make you lay down and cry, but you wont fight as effectively and your morale drops.

 

Now, do you suppose that its fair that for every 10 or 15 pts of MC you get a -1 to OCV, DCV and ECV? Or is that too powerful. I dont see any way to apply penalties with MC in the book. But I sometimes read past things (I blame my meds), so the answer might be there and Im just retarded.

 

Is this fair? Or is there a better way to do this? The Drain route is way too expensive, IMHO, for what I want the despair to do. Or is Drain the real way to go and I should forget Mind Control??

 

Blargh.

 

On a side note, I contemplated switching systems to Wraith/Vampire, but I then beat myself up mentally. I love this system too much. But in sticking with Hero, I gotta find a way to do this despair thing...

 

-=Grim=-

[Vex]

It sounds to me like you are draining Dex. That will give you the lower OCV and DCV. If you are not afraid of spending points, you can even include a Supress vs all powers that would similate them not using their powers to their full effectiveness due to their extreme sadness/fear.

[ghost-angel]

Mind Control could easily work .. just make your Mind Control effect to tell the opponent "You will only fight at half effectiveness because you are very very depressed." which should be interpreted as they will only use offensive powers at half power level, should not being trying as hard to hit or dodge (1/2 OCV&DCV), and might even lower their defenses.

 

This would be a Mind Control at EGO+20 at the very least, EGO+30 on the average.

 

If you preface the Mind Control with a PRE attack that might make them think twice about attacking you it might warrant a minor bonus to the MC roll. I would say a PRE+20 would give a +5 to the MC roll at the most.

[Snarf]

Mind Control fits the SFX best, but if you only want to apply combat penalties and not control their actions otherwise, a Drain Dex or some Penalty Skill Levels with BOECV would be a more efficient way to handle this.

[Dust Raven]

Dispair sounds like an EGO Drain actually. What do you do when suffering from dispair? Nothing. Negative EGO will do that do you. For those indecisive moments before you go all sit-and-drool, you can buy Negative Combat Levels to apply to your targets.

[GrimJesta]

Are negative combat levels new to 5th? Cuz I dont have those in my books I dont think.

 

If so, add itt o my list as to why I wait for revised with hunger in my eyes and a fire axe in my hands...

 

-=Grim=-

[Talon]

I seem to recall that USPD has guidelines for creating emotions with Mind Control.

[austenandrews]

Snarf's got the right idea. Do you actually want to cause despair, or just achieve certain combat effects with a special effect of despair? Because different characters will react to despair in different ways. Some might fight badly, others might ratchet up to 11. Mind Control is what you want there.

 

-AA

[Dust Raven]

Originally posted by GrimJesta

Are negative combat levels new to 5th? Cuz I dont have those in my books I dont think.

 

If so, add itt o my list as to why I wait for revised with hunger in my eyes and a fire axe in my hands...

 

-=Grim=-

 

That's right, you said you're still in 4th. Yes, Negative Combat Levels are introduced in 5th, specificlly for this type of use. Basically, -1 OCV or DCV has no range, is constant and costs END. In this case, you'll want to apply at least Range.

 

I'd write it up as this:

Ray of Despair: Drain EGO 4d6, Ranged plus -1 OCV/DCV, Ranged, 0 END, Uncontrolled (ends when EGO recovered), Linked. Active Cost: 85 Total Cost: 77 (without any further Limitations)

[GrimJesta]

AHA, thanks dude, thats a huge help. Right... I just have to wait until 5th revised.

 

But NCL are sweet.

 

-=Grim=-

[Dr.Device]

Why not just use Change environment with the appropriate modifiers and a custom limitation "penalties reduced by Mental Defense?"

[GrimJesta]

Well, Change Environment in 4th isnt what it is in 5th apparently. It gets a two paragraph treatment and doest hit anyone up with modifiers of any kind. Its almost like a glorified special effect that the GM can give a modifier to in extreme cases (like frost slowing down a fire-guy). Actually CE is the main reason Im getting 5th ed. I openned the book in the store and saw PAGES for it, not paragraphs.

 

I read in some compilation of AC articles at my local game store that every 10 pts of CE is a -1 to perception, but they said it like that was obvious in the rules. Maybe I have the Toys R Us version of Hero?

 

I think Im going the route of modifiers with the special effect being despair, as stated above. At least for now.

 

-=Grim=-

[Dust Raven]

Originally posted by Dr.Device

Why not just use Change environment with the appropriate modifiers and a custom limitation "penalties reduced by Mental Defense?"

 

Change Environment (5ED) would be great for a blanket effect (and expensive), whereas NCLs could target a specific individual. That "penalties reduced by Mental Defense" might be a good addition for either though.

[ghost-angel]

Instead of waiting for the revised pick upSidekick, it'll have the basic rules to help you get into 5th and explain the new effects of Change Environment in brief.

 

All of the above are good builds for the end result, you just have to decide what the Despair really is.

[Kristopher]

Using Change Environment seems like a cheap way of getting around the fact that you're affecting another character's mental state, which to me pretty much demands that they have some kind of resistance before it takes effect. So unless you're going to somehow build a BOECV Change Environment, it's not something I would allow.

[Victim]

Originally posted by Kristopher

Using Change Environment seems like a cheap way of getting around the fact that you're affecting another character's mental state, which to me pretty much demands that they have some kind of resistance before it takes effect. So unless you're going to somehow build a BOECV Change Environment, it's not something I would allow.

 

Well, since CE affects a character's physical state without allowing normal resistances, I don't see the problem with a mental one doing the same. If someone imposes CV penalties with swirling winds, what's the difference if someone imposes the same penalties with a mental special effect?

[Kristopher]

It's different because it's a mental special effect.

[zornwil]

Penalty Skill Levels (in this case CV) Based on Ego Combat Value, GM willing?

 

However, you don't do 5th, so I doubt you have a Penalty skill levels in your game.

 

Also, Change Environment Based on ECV if you want to apply something in an area might work. Oh, I see that one has come up in this thread.

 

5th does both of these, sorry, the 5th stuff comes to mind first (I guess that means 5th really is decent!).