Teamwork

[casualplayer]

Re: Teamwork

 

I thought Teamwork was making the players pay for knowing the character sheets of the rest of the team as well as they know their own. Kinda like KS: Supervillains is for those who pathologically snoop in the NPC books. Pay the points or the GM vetoes all the hare-brained, no-way-your-rookie-character-came-up-with-that ideas and knowledge.

[MisterBaldy]

Re: Teamwork

 

From Hero System 5th Edition Revised

 

TEAMWORK

Agility: 9+(DEX/5)

Cost: 3 Character Points; +1 to roll per +2 points

 

This Agility Skill reflects a character's ability to fight well with others in combat. Use it when characters try to Coordinate Attacks (see page 378). Characters do not have to buy Teamwork seperately for each person or group they want to Coordinate with; it simulates a character's general ability to work as a "team" with any other character in combat. However, a character's Teamwork applies only to himself; he cannot use his Skill to improve other character's chance to Coordinate

Basically, according to "game mechanics", Teamwork only serves ONE purpose, and that is to Coordinate attacks. It does nothing else!!!

 

This does not mean that a Gamemaster cannot expand on the skill, and what it is used for. That is purely at the disgression of the Gamemaster.

 

But, the skill as it is written in Hero System 5th Edition Revised, the skill is not worth the points which you are paying for it. The skill is just too specific!

 

It's that plain and simple!!!

[Dust Raven]

Re: Teamwork

 

Basically' date=' according to "game mechanics", [i']Teamwork[/i] only serves ONE purpose, and that is to Coordinate attacks. It does nothing else!!!

 

This does not mean that a Gamemaster cannot expand on the skill, and what it is used for. That is purely at the disgression of the Gamemaster.

 

But, the skill as it is written in Hero System 5th Edition Revised, the skill is not worth the points which you are paying for it. The skill is just too specific!

 

It's that plain and simple!!!

 

Well, when you put into perspective the value of the one thing it does, it's more than worth the points paid for it. Without it, you can have a team of five that basically act like five individuals who happen to have the same or similar goal. With it, you have a team of five that can work as one or work as many, whichever is more effective for them.

 

Basically, without the Teamwork Skill, you can never coordinate, never get the stunning bonus and never get a multiple attacker bonus. Imagine a team of agents, one that buys Teamwork, and one that buys a +1 CSL for their weapons. Which do you think is better off. For any single agent, the CSL is the better buy, but when you have three or more, the Teamwork can provide a better than +1 bonus to attack and increases the chance of stunning their targets.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Teamwork

 

If there is any one Skill that makes me wish that you can alternate the Characterist a Skill is based on as needed in game. This isn't needed for most Skills, and really isn't for Teamwork, but as an Agility Skill there really isn't much you can do with it other than coordinate attacks. I like to base it on INT for tasks like figuring out where a teammate is what he's doing, or PRE to subtly communicate something to a teammate (in or out of combat), and even on EGO to coordinate mental attacks, or again on INT to coordinate mental tasks (like the above mentioned bomb disarming).

 

Of course, I run a game that has yet to see anyone make a Teamwork Skill roll for anything, other than my VIPER agents, and the players still can't figure out why those agents have such good aim... More than once I've heard a player say "how come they always hit when they all gang up on ME???" and I just reply "because they are acting as a team when they do it, try it sometime."

[John T]

Re: Teamwork

 

Or Dodgeball

Does Missile Reflection count?

 

John T

[John T]

Re: Teamwork

 

Of course' date=' I run a game that has yet to see anyone make a Teamwork Skill roll for anything, other than my VIPER agents, and the players still can't figure out why those agents have such good aim... More than once I've heard a player say "how come they always hit when they all gang up on [b']ME[/b]???" and I just reply "because they are acting as a team when they do it, try it sometime."

Actually, I've already taken that into consideration. I'm just trying to RP the exasperation that Nightspeed is beginning to feel at our collective "lack of professionalism" (as well as the subconcious thought that at least one of the PCs [M'st] isn't emotionally mature enough to grasp the idea).

 

In addition, he's too much of a loner to try to step into THE leadership role, but wants one to emerge... SOON... and is starting to consider how he might go about engineering the occurence.

 

John T

[Dust Raven]

Re: Teamwork

 

Actually' date=' I've already taken that into consideration. I'm just trying to RP the exasperation that Nightspeed is beginning to feel at our collective "lack of professionalism" (as well as the subconcious thought that at least one of the PCs [M'st'] isn't emotionally mature enough to grasp the idea).

 

In addition, he's too much of a loner to try to step into THE leadership role, but wants one to emerge... SOON... and is starting to consider how he might go about engineering the occurence.

 

John T

 

As the newest player in my campaign, I can't hold you responsible for the group not acting like a team. Actually, Nightspeed is probably the best equipped for teamwork with his high SPD, but it takes at least two to really make a team. I think I'll show DeAnna how agents really work...

[John T]

Re: Teamwork

 

As the newest player in my campaign' date=' I can't hold you responsible for the group not acting like a team. Actually, Nightspeed is probably the best equipped for teamwork with his high SPD, but it takes at least two to really make a team. I think I'll show DeAnna how agents really work... [/quote']Fair by me! After that pesky lightning wench kept trying to slip into his blind spot, he's probably gonna be wary of that stunt, i.e. buy Defense Maneuver I... although I had to chuckle after the fact at the irony that the teleporting blaster couldn't "move fast enough" to shoot the running speedster in the back!

 

Clarifying question re: your house rules for Teamwork: is it, at different times, based on different attributes, depending on what it's being used to accomplish, or are these separate skills we're talking about?

 

John T

[JohnTaber]

Re: Teamwork

 

How about...

- conveying information covertly (hand signs, eye rolling, a subtle

flexing of muscles, whatever)

- coordinated but separate attacks, whether side by side, or otherwise?

- choosing targets automatically (IE, you KNOW which one HE will choose

by default, because he's on your left)

 

I add these to my game already.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Teamwork

 

 

Here's the closest FAQ (No BIFOM) entry I can quote:

 

Q: Does it change how a Coordinated attack works if some attacks do Normal Damage and some Killing, or Hit Locations are used?

 

A: No. Each the attacks involved in a Coordinated attack applies against its relevant defenses in the regular manner, modified by Hit Locations as appropriate, and after you determine the total STUN damage the character takes after applying the relevant defenses to reduce each attack’s damage, add it together to find out if he’s Stunned.

 

That's the way I've always played it. Did I miss a rule change?

 

Thanks for giving me one more thing to get upset about.

 

Megalotron is a huge villain.

 

The Swordsmith and Skippy try to coordinate:

 

The Swordsmith swings at Megalotron's head and Skippy does a movethrough on the small of his back. Stun after defences doesn't add becasue they are different attack types, but if The Swordsmith had thrown a punch, or Skippy had used a dagger then they would?

 

Is there any sense in that? If so I can not see it.

 

RE: Teamwork skill - adding stun for stunning purposes is a ludicrously powerful ability and often enables quick and easy resolution to combat. It more than justifies its own cost. You don't need to make it do more to justify 3 points, of 15 points for that matter. If you want to be able to read the signals of team members subconsciously, buy a limited form of Mind Link, or a KS: (TEAM MEMBER).

 

The only thing is I would make it a general skill: I can not see how having a high agility makes you better at co-ordination. It is simply a matter of practice - if it was down to natural ability then INT would be a better candidate, but I'd still want to make it a general skill.

 

Even though we don't have them any more. Why? Who knows...one more thing to get upset about....

[Silbeg]

Re: Teamwork

 

Thanks for giving me one more thing to get upset about.

 

Megalotron is a huge villain.

 

The Swordsmith and Skippy try to coordinate:

 

The Swordsmith swings at Megalotron's head and Skippy does a movethrough on the small of his back. Stun after defences doesn't add becasue they are different attack types, but if The Swordsmith had thrown a punch, or Skippy had used a dagger then they would?

 

Um, Sean, I think you are misreading that FAQ entry.

 

What it is saying is that you add up all of the STUN done to the target (after defenses) that is done in the coordinated attack to determine STUNning.

 

So, example:

 

Three heroes - Bruiser (the brick), Headcase (the mentalist), and Snapshot (the exotic blaster) all attack Uberman (the villain).

 

All make their teamwork rolls, and are attempting to STUN Uberman (with his high defenses and CON).

 

Bruiser hits with his 65STR punch, doing 47 STUN, 12 BODY to Uberman's 35 PD. So, 12 STUN gets through.

 

Headcase uses his Mind Blast power (a 5d6 Ego Attack), and does 19 STUN to Uberman (who has no mental DEF). He has now taken 31 STUN for the purposes of STUNning, which is less than his 40 CON.

 

Finally, Snapshot uses is Super-Intense Strobe Light attack (which is a 6d6 ALVD vs Flash DEF), and does 21 STUN, Uberman's 5 points of Flash DEF reduces this to 16 STUN. Thus, Uberman has taken 47 STUN from the combined attack, which is enough to STUN him.

 

Note that each attack was applied to the appropriate defenses, but that the total damage (12 + 19 + 16 = 47, which is more than 40 CON) that penetrated all defenses is added up to determine if Uberman was STUNNED.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Teamwork

 

Clarifying question re: your house rules for Teamwork: is it, at different times, based on different attributes, depending on what it's being used to accomplish, or are these separate skills we're talking about?

 

John T

 

All one skill, Teamwork, which costs 3 points, 2 per +1 to the roll, and is based on DEX when you're coordinating non mental attacks (EGO if your attack is mental). Anything "team oriented" can be done with Teamwork, with me a final judge on whether or not it applies. FYI, most of it is just simple common sense stuff that anyone could do (gee, know what I know about Cyberbold, where would he be right now?), the change is that I allow you to use the extra levels of Teamwork as a bonus to your Characteristic Roll.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Teamwork

 

Thanks for giving me one more thing to get upset about...

 

What Silbeg said.

 

RE: Teamwork skill - adding stun for stunning purposes is a ludicrously powerful ability and often enables quick and easy resolution to combat. It more than justifies its own cost. You don't need to make it do more to justify 3 points, of 15 points for that matter. If you want to be able to read the signals of team members subconsciously, buy a limited form of Mind Link, or a KS: (TEAM MEMBER).

 

Well, performing a coordinated attack used to not cost any point or require any kind of roll (except maybe a PER roll to notice the cue). It's only since 5th Edition that we've had the Teamwork Skill. I figure if my players are suddenly gonna have to pay points for the privilage, and make them have to all make an extra roll just to have a change, I might as well sweeten the pot a bit for them.

[John T]

Re: Teamwork

 

All one skill' date=' Teamwork, which costs 3 points, 2 per +1 to the roll, and is based on DEX when you're coordinating non mental attacks (EGO if your attack is mental). Anything "team oriented" can be done with Teamwork, with me a final judge on whether or not it applies. FYI, most of it is just simple common sense stuff that anyone could do (gee, know what I know about Cyberbold, where would he be right now?), the change is that I allow you to use the extra levels of Teamwork as a bonus to your Characteristic Roll.[/quote']Gotcha.

 

Heeeeyyyy... Team Presence Attacks!

 

"HA!!! We Are The Inevitables! See us, villains, and Panic!!!"

 

Nah, probably not...

 

John T

[Dust Raven]

Re: Teamwork

 

Gotcha.

 

Heeeeyyyy... Team Presence Attacks!

 

"HA!!! We Are The Inevitables! See us, villains, and Panic!!!"

 

Nah, probably not...

 

John T

 

Try it. I'll allow a cumulative "stunning" effect with a group PRE Attack if the group all makes a Teamwork roll to coordinate it. There will be some heavy modifiers depending on what everyone does... not everyone can make a good soliloquy at the same time and have it work.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Teamwork

 

Only one of them would need to talk. The rest of them could pose dramaticaly

[pinecone]

Re: Teamwork

 

Try it. I'll allow a cumulative "stunning" effect with a group PRE Attack if the group all makes a Teamwork roll to coordinate it. There will be some heavy modifiers depending on what everyone does... not everyone can make a good soliloquy at the same time and have it work.

Most of the "groups" I've seen, would go for a bonus from demonstrating powers and increadably violent by knocking out each other...

[Dust Raven]

Re: Teamwork

 

Most of the "groups" I've seen' date=' would go for a bonus from demonstrating powers and increadably violent by knocking out each other...[/quote']

 

The ironically funny thing is I've seen villain "teams" do this a lot. Actually, it's typically just the leader killing his own henchman to demonstrate his vile nature to intimidate his opponents, rather than "oops, sorry buddy... See that hero? You're next!"

[Silbeg]

Re: Teamwork

 

Most of the "groups" I've seen' date=' would go for a bonus from demonstrating powers and increadably violent by knocking out each other...[/quote']

Now this is something that I could see certain former "heroes" in the North Force doing.

 

Also is reminiscent of Mystery Men, when Casanova Frankenstein electrocutes the Frat Boys on the stairway (It was the frat boys, wasn't it?) "See, I even kill my own men!"

[Silbeg]

Re: Teamwork

 

Only one of them would need to talk. The rest of them could pose dramaticaly

 

Sure, that is all they would need to do, but to quote Ron White... "It was at that time I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability!"