The Authority:What the heck?

[Rene]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

A pal of mine (he who tipped me to the comic in the first place) made the perceptive point that the Authority are so powerful' date=' with powers not defined so that they can do essentially anything that is required of them in a given issue, that they break all the rules of comic book continuity and team development [/quote']

 

This is a problem that much predates the Authority, I think. Even though Millar's version of the group is perhaps the worst offender in this respect. Martian Manhunter, the X-Men's telepaths and their enemies, Batman by Grant Morrison, Green Lantern and Flash (depending on the writer) all of them in some versions have been portrayed as able to do anything required of them.

 

Heck, this is an OLD problem that dates from the Silver Age. Stan Lee in the very early Marvel Universe, for instance, used to run wild with the way the characters could use their powers. The Human Torch was horrible in that he could do *anything* with his flame, including creating city-wide radar effects, hypnosis, telekinetic ropes, anything. He got more restrained after the 2nd or 3rd year of the Marvel Universe.

 

In some senses, I see the Authority and Morrison's JLA as throwbacks to the Silver Age in terms of power and attempts to elicit a science-fictional sense of wonder. Actually, the only ones in the group that have undefined powers seems to be the Doctor and Hawksmoor, and only the first is all-powerful (20d6 Transform Anything into Anything?). The others are versatile, but still very limited in their "special effects".

[Rene]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

The means of choosing a monarch need not be hereditary . . .

 

Okay.

 

I was only saying something like this:

 

You get a ordinary guy and inject him with superpowers, chances are we could luck out and he'd be a more or less decent human being.

 

Now you get someone from a pool of high-power execs, career politicians, hot lawywers and other people likely to be presidential stuff, and I think chances are greater that you'll get someone rotten, someone raised in a diet of power jockeying and ambition.

 

Still, I don't think this oppinion make me a monarchist, because I still prefer the elected politician over the superhero king. Because if both prove to be really rotten, the elected politician would be easier to remove.

[Kristopher]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Is Morrison's run where Batman picked up his Whatever Skill Needed Pool and Smarter Than The Rest of the JLA Combined powers?

 

Sometimes it's hard to define all of a character's powers. If someone really could manipulate electricity, there are all sorts of things they could do with that: short out machines, stun-gun people, fry local electrical grids, eletrocute people, etc, etc, etc, etc...

[Rene]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Is Morrison's run where Batman picked up his Whatever Skill Needed Pool and Smarter Than The Rest of the JLA Combined powers?

 

Yes. Batman always was cut from the pulp hero mode, but Morrison took this to new extremes. Get Sherlock Holmes, Bruce Lee, Reed Richards, James Bond, and Captain America, multiply their talents tenfold and combine them, and perhaps you'd approach Batman as he sometimes been portrayed when there are other superheroes around.

 

And some Bat-fans still say he is "the only one human from the bunch"? Jeez, I find him the most unbelievable of them all. An unenhanced human being doing all that? Right.

[gewing]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Man, this thread makes me glad I HAVEN't read the series.

 

This book written by 10 year olds?

[freakboy6117]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

yeah they relaunched but its the same team same chronology same universe only diffrence really was that the first 6 issues where so bad they almost made the new gen 13 look good (cringe). thank goodness things got back a bit closer to normal after that with the whole coup bit.

 

I think the biggest problem the authority have is that there way way to powerful for there universe they can just kill anything lets face it they have two cosmic power houses that wouls make the Spectre go weak at the knees and teh rest of teh team are fairly potent though admittedly with fewer defences or brains than say the JLA.

[gewing]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

That may be the best point I have ever seen you make. Not that you haven't made some very good ones before, but I had never thought about that. Of course, I have read maybe 3 comics in which Lex was PRes....

 

I have said it before and I will repeat myself here. Lex Luthor should never have won the presidency' date=' and being president he should have been quickly removed, because in entering that arena his archnemesis should no longer have been Superman but someone far more dangerous to him . . . Clark Kent. Can you imagine the information Kent could have dug up and published on Luthor? Kent should have destroyed Luthor's political career (and for that matter all of his legitimate careers) and his failure to do so is a much greater blot on his character than Superman's restraint in the use of lethal force against Luthor.[/quote']

[gewing]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Don't forget Doc Savage.

 

Yes. Batman always was cut from the pulp hero mode, but Morrison took this to new extremes. Get Sherlock Holmes, Bruce Lee, Reed Richards, James Bond, and Captain America, multiply their talents tenfold and combine them, and perhaps you'd approach Batman as he sometimes been portrayed when there are other superheroes around.

 

And some Bat-fans still say he is "the only one human from the bunch"? Jeez, I find him the most unbelievable of them all. An unenhanced human being doing all that? Right.

[Allandrel]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

I have said it before and I will repeat myself here. Lex Luthor should never have won the presidency' date=' and being president he should have been quickly removed, because in entering that arena his archnemesis should no longer have been Superman but someone far more dangerous to him . . . Clark Kent. Can you imagine the information Kent could have dug up and published on Luthor? Kent should have destroyed Luthor's political career (and for that matter all of his legitimate careers) and his failure to do so is a much greater blot on his character than Superman's restraint in the use of lethal force against Luthor.[/quote']

 

Have you read many Superman comics lately? That's just how Superman brought Luthor down. He lost his career as a journalist in his efforts to get proof of Luthor's dirty deeds, with nobody outside of Perry and Lois believing in his cause.

 

What you're suggesting is exactly what Superman (with the assistance of Perry, Lois, and Batman) did. Luthor has been completely discredited. Even his secret alliance with Darkseid has been brought to light. His power is completely broken... and not because his enemies included the world's greatest hero. Because his enemies included the world's greatest newspaperman, two of the world's greatest reporters, and the world's greatest detective. Superman never needed to storm the White House. He defeated Luthor utterly without ever compromising his morals.

 

Patrick J McGraw

[TheEmerged]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

RE: Hitler was elected. Correct me if I'm wrong here but as I understand it that's not true. He lost the election but was *appointed* to a different position (chancellor if I recall) because his party had control of the legislature. He then semi-legally usurped the leadership.

 

RE: Authority. I generally have a good nose for bad comics. That title struck me as being radioactively-bad from the beginning. So I'm not surprised that it has gone off the deep end.

[lemming]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

RE: Hitler was elected. Correct me if I'm wrong here but as I understand it that's not true. He lost the election but was *appointed* to a different position (chancellor if I recall) because his party had control of the legislature. He then semi-legally usurped the leadership.

basically correct

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitlerdemo.htm and http://www.secondworldwar.co.uk/ahitler.html have details.

[Rene]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

RE: Authority[/b]. I generally have a good nose for bad comics. That title struck me as being radioactively-bad from the beginning. So I'm not surprised that it has gone off the deep end.

 

Well, everyone is entitled to their oppinion.

 

When I first read an issue, my reaction was lukewarm. Everybody had been praising it as the best superhero series ever written, and I've found it to be just a fun and somewhat shallow super-action series with one or two more original touches.

 

But it grew on me slowly. What I like most about the Authority is the high-scale, almost-absurd extremes and mind-blowing ideas. It's like a crazy Silver Age comic, only with gore and paranoid political conspiracies throw in (and a gay superhero couple).

 

I don't think it's nearly as deep as many people think it is, and the personal character stuff is light (Millar run) to almost non-existent (Ellis run). With their level of power and the way they keep murdering ever more powerful threats, I agree they have a short shelf life.

 

I understand that many fans are turned off by the way they kill their enemies. I'm mostly neutral to that. I mean, in a fictional contest, of course. Many fans think the Authority are the only heroes who fight the good fight in the right way, many haters think they're moral monsters, I dunno. I don't think the book is as deep as that, I don't think they really explore these questions. It's a complete fantasy world, where everybody they kill is shown to the reader to be equivalent of sadistic child molesters or else faceless thugs in the employ of said sadistics. There aren't any real moral dilemmas to allow us to weight in one way or the other.

[Haerandir]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Rene has pretty much summed up my opinion of the Authority. There was, very breifly, a point during which I actually thought Ellis might be on to something, but he couldn't sustain it. Since then, it's mostly been pretty average, with the occasional intriguing idea or witty remark which is quickly buried in mediocrity again.

 

The Authority is neither as good as its ardent fans would have you believe, nor as bad as its most vehement detractors claim. The strongest emotion it has ever aroused in me was disappointment at opportunities squandered.

[Southern Cross]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

How true.For all the complaints from Authority fans,it seems fairly obvious to me that the Authority are not only supervillains,but SUCCESSFULL supervillains.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Is Morrison's run where Batman picked up his Whatever Skill Needed Pool and Smarter Than The Rest of the JLA Combined powers?

 

Umm Batman is Smarter than the rest of them.

 

Combined? Nah! But individually you bet, plus he is ruthless in the application of that intellect.

 

Who else devises ways to bring down your teammates incase they go wrong?

[Rene]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

How true.For all the complaints from Authority fans' date='it seems fairly obvious to me that the Authority are not only supervillains,but SUCCESSFULL supervillains.[/quote']

 

Are they?

 

They defend mankind from threats and are willing to put their lives in danger to rescue and save people. They are moved by innocent people's suffering and they show compassion to most people. Those are not supervillain traits, I think. Unlike the Punisher, for instance, they're not primarily motivated by vengeance and they spend time and energy actively helping bystanders.

 

On the other hand, they mostly show no compuctions about killing those they judge to be deserving of this fate but (and it's true the writers contrive this shamelesly) those they kill are so uniformily inhuman, dangerous, and caricaturally immoral (be they aliens or corrupt human governments) that it becomes almost a black-and-white situation. Like I said before, the comic lacks any depth in how it portrays these situations.

 

They're also not bothered by human law. But again, there is not much depth to how this situation is depicted. Until the end of Millar's arc, their policy seems to be to step in and strong-arm rulers who commit unspeakable atrocities or try to conquer other countries, and afterwards they just step back and return to their HQ to have sex and take drugs. And that is it. The social consequences of their actions or how it affects the common man, this stuff is dealt very lightly or not at all.

 

In short, in it's own way their world is as simplistic and black-and-white as the world of Silver Age comics. And in this simpler world, the Authority seems to be superheroes, not supervillains.

[Enforcer84]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Are they?

 

They defend mankind from threats and are willing to put their lives in danger to rescue and save people. They are moved by innocent people's suffering and they show compassion to most people. Those are not supervillain traits, I think. Unlike the Punisher, for instance, they're not primarily motivated by vengeance and they spend time and energy actively helping bystanders.

 

On the other hand, they mostly show no compuctions about killing those they judge to be deserving of this fate but (and it's true the writers contrive this shamelesly) those they kill are so uniformily inhuman, dangerous, and caricaturally immoral (be they aliens or corrupt human governments) that it becomes almost a black-and-white situation. Like I said before, the comic lacks any depth in how it portrays these situations.

 

They're also not bothered by human law. But again, there is not much depth to how this situation is depicted. Until the end of Millar's arc, their policy seems to be to step in and strong-arm rulers who commit unspeakable atrocities or try to conquer other countries, and afterwards they just step back and return to their HQ to have sex and take drugs. And that is it. The social consequences of their actions or how it affects the common man, this stuff is dealt very lightly or not at all.

 

In short, in it's own way their world is as simplistic and black-and-white as the world of Silver Age comics. And in this simpler world, the Authority seems to be superheroes, not supervillains.

DR. Doom would approve of them.

[lemming]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

DR. Doom would approve of them.

I'm Dr. Doom and I approve this message.

[Enforcer84]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

I'm Dr. Doom and I approve this message.

I so want to give you more rep for that one.

[nexus]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

In short, in it's own way their world is as simplistic and black-and-white as the world of Silver Age comics. And in this simpler world, the Authority seems to be superheroes, not supervillains.

 

I've said this several times to "The Authority" fans when they start on about superior and "realistic" it is compared other comics. Its only more realistic if you don't think about it to much. And the writers pander shamelessly, twisting the entire world so The Authority is always right. It was amusing at first, and a change of pace but after awhile I just started rolling my eyes.

 

I think the fake Authority run really drove it home for me. The "bad" Authority's methods weren't that different, they just had different reasons and different bosses.

[Southern Cross]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Actually the fake Authority DID do things the real Authority wouldn't do OR approve of -such as opening up the racial consciousness to commercial exploitation.

[Kristopher]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

"Racial Consciousness"????

 

Oh, for pete's sake...

[nexus]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Actually the fake Authority DID do things the real Authority wouldn't do OR approve of -such as opening up the racial consciousness to commercial exploitation.

 

Yes, they did. I didn't say the two were totally alike, but they were so similiar in method allot of the times it was hard to tell. Just the "fake" Authority worked for the "EVIL" people, while the others were there nominal good guys.

 

Let me get one thing straight, Its not the violence or the killing in the book that gets to me. Sometimes even a hero is going to have to use lethal force in a setting that is going to approach realistic. Cops have to make life and death choices all the time, for example. But a "Hero" in my opinion does not set out to kill and its his last option or, at least not the first. Not only do most of the memeber of the Authority kill freely (including Swift who is supposed to be buddhist, I believe) they seem to take a sadistic joy in it. They do eagerly, quickly and feel absolutely no remorse or hesitation about brutalizing their opponents even when they don't have to (they've got them so classed it come across as sadism). And the world is contrived to make them "right" including such laughable little stabs at other comics like "Earth 666".

[Guest Witch Doctor]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

DR. Doom would approve of them.

 

Not true.

Doom is ruthless, but he's not sadistic. He'd never allow a rapist to work for him.

[Rene]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

DR. Doom would approve of them.

 

Doom probably would be afraid of them. As a ruthless dictator, he'd be a prime target for "permanent removal" Authority style.

 

I agree with Nexus, BTW. The most disturbing trait in the Authority isn't the killing (you could say many killings in the book are justifiable) but the way they joke and have fun while killing.