The Authority:What the heck?

[Doug McCrae]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Ignorant question:What's the Authority?

A superhero comic we love to argue about.

 

Under the first writer, Warren Ellis, the Authority were a cooler, modern version of the JLA who killed their foes. Those foes being traditional comic book bad guys. Under Mark Millar they became a bunch of assholes who killed their foes, those foes now being politicians and government agents. And there was now an ass-raping every second issue.

[Evil Toki]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

A superhero comic we love to argue about.

 

Under the first writer, Warren Ellis, the Authority were a cooler, modern version of the JLA who killed their foes. Those foes being traditional comic book bad guys. Under Mark Millar they became a bunch of assholes who killed their foes, those foes now being politicians and government agents. And there was now an ass-raping every second issue.

All this talk makes me want to buy the comic now

[Katherine]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

A superhero comic we love to argue about.

 

Under the first writer, Warren Ellis, the Authority were a cooler, modern version of the JLA who killed their foes. Those foes being traditional comic book bad guys. Under Mark Millar they became a bunch of assholes who killed their foes, those foes now being politicians and government agents. And there was now an ass-raping every second issue.

 

That...sounds strange.

[Metaphysician]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

I picked up a copy of Ultimate Avengers. It had some dugan named "The Owl" or something similar. Cap acted like an ass, and then "The Owl or similar" beat him to a standstill.

 

Between the portrayal of Cap as super-unthinking-patriot (who almost had the word "Republican" stamped across his forehead in place of an "A"), and the fact that the origin of "The Owl or similar" was so political, so ignorant, that I stopped even shopping in that store.

 

Ultimate Adventures, not Avengers.

 

The Ultimate "Avengers" title is Ultimates.

 

And everybody I know who's read both would prefer to ignore UA having ever existed.

[Haerandir]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

That...sounds strange.

 

It is strange, which is one reason why it inspires 'discussion'.

[Metaphysician]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

As an aside, somebody I know suggested a new designation: Stainless Steel Age, in reference to the lighter side of the Iron Age. You know, comics where the "shades of grey" press is actually backed up by the presence of *shades* of grey, as opposed to black, black, and, um, black. Where the good guys may not be squeaky clean, and some may be dirtier than others, but they are still clearly differentiable from the bad guys.

 

IOW, stuff like the Ultimate Universe or Supreme Power.

[Katherine]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

It is strange' date=' which is one reason why it inspires 'discussion'.[/quote']

 

Ok, I have to ask. Who's doing the ass raping? The protagonists or their foes?

[Guest Witch Doctor]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Ok' date=' I have to ask. Who's doing the ass raping? The protagonists or their foes?[/quote']

 

In at least one case, the protagonists - with a deisel powered dildo as big as your arm.

 

I've said it before, what really scares me is that this crap appeals to some group of people big enough for it to be profitable to make it.

What is wrong with our culture?

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

I've said it before, what really scares me is that this crap appeals to some group of people big enough for it to be profitable to make it.

What is wrong with our culture?

 

It's what's right with our culture: despite the efforts of people like Andrea Dworkin, Orrin Hatch, and Tipper Gore, people are gradually re-discovering that fiction is not reality. If you like Oz, watch Oz. If you like Veggie Tales, watch Veggie Tales. There is room enough in the world for people to find harmless entertainment wherever they can.

[freakboy6117]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Strictly the diesel powered dildo incident was in revenge at the violent gang rape of the characters long-term partnered not that excuses it.

 

But there is an awful lot of rape in the authority a full half of the team has been raped at one time or another Apollo by the evil version of avengers in Singapore, the engineer and swift where both brainwashed later by the G8 nations and slept repeatedly whilst in a mind altered state which I would class as rape. The leader of the singularity church did much the same thing to many of his disciples.

 

Sliding Albion planned to turn the planet into rape camps. The colonel tried to rape the winged Canadian on the new team Seth threatened Jack with it as well and was then turned into chickens which where molested by his family. The evil doctor was allegedly raped by every guard in the super jail and then molested the engineer while she was still in grade school using time travel. That’s rather a lot for a comic that’s only run 40 odd issues.

[Katherine]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

It's what's right with our culture: despite the efforts of people like Andrea Dworkin' date=' Orrin Hatch, and Tipper Gore, people are gradually re-discovering that [b']fiction is not reality[/b]. If you like Oz, watch Oz. If you like Veggie Tales, watch Veggie Tales. There is room enough in the world for people to find harmless entertainment wherever they can.

 

Call me judgemental, but getting your jollies watching someone (even a fictional someone) get sodomized by a gasoline powered dildo is just disturbing. Fiction is fiction, but taking pleasure is pain, even imagined is just not cool.I consider myself fairly open minded. I don't care what everyone else likes but there are some limits to what I will shrug off. Oz is recreating a reality. It is not pointless nor gratitious. That incident sounds like some juvenile threat given form.

 

The Japanese have a "superhero" called Rapeman. His MO is that he goes about raping "evil" women (women that have basically upset the traditional male dominated power structure in some fashion). He is very popular. If you don't find that disturbing, I think you're a slightly too liberal in views, sir. Not EVERYTHING is all right or should be accepted with open minded tolerance.

[Haerandir]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Call me judgemental, but getting your jollies watching someone (even a fictional someone) get sodomized by a gasoline powered dildo is just disturbing. Fiction is fiction, but taking pleasure is pain, even imagined is just not cool.I consider myself fairly open minded. I don't care what everyone else likes but there are some limits to what I will shrug off. Oz is recreating a reality. It is not pointless nor gratitious. That incident sounds like some juvenile threat given form.

 

 

Well, despite being in the 'not an Authority fan' camp, I will point out that the motivation behind that particular incident was of the "Let's see how much you like it when someone does it to YOU" variety. As another poster said, that doesn't excuse it, but you could construe it as an attempt at moral instruction by direct experience. It's a step up from Rapeman. Still, just a touch over the top, I agree.

 

I remain more concerned about the mass-murder of entire countries by so-called superheroes because they can't be bothered to attempt a slightly more refined method of target selection than "There's lots of bad guys in Italy, let's chuck the entire peninsula into space."

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

I remain more concerned about the mass-murder of entire countries by so-called superheroes because they can't be bothered to attempt a slightly more refined method of target selection than "There's lots of bad guys in Italy' date=' let's chuck the entire peninsula into space."[/quote']

 

On the one hand, you must admit that the entire superhero genre consists of superheroes taking actions which aren't exactly the most efficient means of using their powers. Where there is a boring, nonviolent solution and an exciting, violent solution, we rarely see the boring solution.

 

On the other hand, for all their powers, superhero groups like the Authority, the Justice League, the X-Men, the Avengers, and so on, are not omniscient. More importantly, the writers who create these stories are only human, and they have to meet deadlines. It's easy to be the Monday-morning quarterback, in other words.

[Haerandir]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

On the one hand, you must admit that the entire superhero genre consists of superheroes taking actions which aren't exactly the most efficient means of using their powers. Where there is a boring, nonviolent solution and an exciting, violent solution, we rarely see the boring solution.

 

On the other hand, for all their powers, superhero groups like the Authority, the Justice League, the X-Men, the Avengers, and so on, are not omniscient. More importantly, the writers who create these stories are only human, and they have to meet deadlines. It's easy to be the Monday-morning quarterback, in other words.

 

Well, at the risk of reiterating a previous post on this thread, I think it's a legitmate concern in light both of the authors' and the fans' contention that the Authority is 'more original, more realisitic and better-thought-through' than other superhero comics, and the characters' claim to be the moral watchdogs of the Wildstorms Universe. I.E., saying that it's no worse than other comics, just gorier and even more visually stimulating, is actually my point. It's also no better, no matter what some people will tell you.

 

And, at least in the case of the Doctor (who was doing the peninsula-chucking), his lack of omniscience to go with his omnipotence is more a matter of personal choice on his part than actual incapacity. He has access to more information and intelligence-gathering resources than just about everyone else, if he's both sober enough and can get over his self-esteem issues long enough to actually use them. If he (or his writers) had wanted to, he could have taken 10 minutes to devise a method of separating the bad guys from the innocents, or even determining if innocents were present. Instead, he threw Italy into space without even soliciting advice from his teammates, all of whom were on hand and had time and leisure for discussion, much less the dozens of highly-experienced world-defending shamans he has in his head. It's not that I expect him to always make the right choice, particularly in light of his well-established psychological issues. It's that he shouldn't be making these decisions at all, by his own admission. Heck, the worst part is that it doesn't even fit in with the established personality of the character, who's supposed to be indecisive and tentative.

 

But, when you're at about page 20 of a 22-page comic book, and the writer realizes he's got no real plan for resolving the situation he's concocted, the Doctor is your go-to-guy for 'solving the problem via excessive application of plot-warping powers that will never be displayed again'. You're right, that's SOP for superhero comics. And I don't think that fits with the image the Authority and its proponents want me to accept. Given that the Authority's supposed main selling point is that it's a 'smarter, better-written, more thoughtful' comic, if it can't deliver on that premise, I consider the book to be a failure. Which is why I don't read it any more.

[Hermit]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

A superhero comic we love to argue about.

 

Under the first writer, Warren Ellis, the Authority were a cooler, modern version of the JLA who killed their foes. Those foes being traditional comic book bad guys. Under Mark Millar they became a bunch of assholes who killed their foes, those foes now being politicians and government agents. And there was now an ass-raping every second issue.

 

Yeah, and one of the things we argue about is "ARE they superheroes". My own leaning is no. If they ever were, they aren't anymore. I am not as familar with them as many, but I think when Jenny Sparks died, something else did as well.

[Maelstrom]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Maelstrom that wasn’t ultimate avengers it was ultimate adventures

 

Which was more a sort of parody of the whole batman thing just sort of a little warped

 

If you compare it to say the JLA turning up in the bat cave and demanding that Batman join with Hmm hawk man doing the asking that’s about right the rendition of cap in the ultimates is much better more developed and rounded than the antagonist he was in adventures

 

Whoops, sorry. I should go back to Hooked-on-Phonics. There's just so much to READ.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

... saying that it's no worse than other comics' date=' just gorier and even more visually stimulating, is actually my point. It's also no better, no matter what some people will tell you.[/quote']

 

Well, that's a matter of taste. I think it's undeniable that Authority was a different take on superheroes. For people who like novelty, that could be a good thing. For people who like things to be familiar, it's probably not.

 

Similar complaints were levelled at X-Men, a number of years ago. It's nothing new.

[Guest Witch Doctor]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

It's what's right with our culture: despite the efforts of people like Andrea Dworkin' date=' Orrin Hatch, and Tipper Gore, people are gradually re-discovering that [b']fiction is not reality[/b]. If you like Oz, watch Oz. If you like Veggie Tales, watch Veggie Tales. There is room enough in the world for people to find harmless entertainment wherever they can.

 

Did I argue for censorship? I don't believe I argued for censorship. So why are the names of big time censorship advocates being called up in reply to my post?

I have no problem with Oz. It is, in fact, one of my favorite shows. But the violence is portrayed for a reason and has a greater purpose. Are you arguing that if people want pictures of pedophilia (done with Photoshop so no person is actually victimized) simply to get their rocks off (for example), that that's okay?

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Did I argue for censorship? I don't believe I argued for censorship.

 

Did I say you did? I don't believe I said you did. You implied there was something wrong with our culture. I countered with the assertion that there is something right with our culture. I no more accused you of being a censor than you have accused me of being a pedophile: stop jumping to conclusions.

[Guest Witch Doctor]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Did I say you did? I don't believe I said you did. You implied there was something wrong with our culture. I countered with the assertion that there is something right with our culture. I no more accused you of being a censor than you have accused me of being a pedophile: stop jumping to conclusions.

 

whatever dude. I noticed you failed to answer either of my questions.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

I noticed you failed to answer either of my questions.

 

Not every question should be dignified with an answer.

[Guest Witch Doctor]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

Not every question should be dignified with an answer.

 

Just keep telling yourself that. Its safer for you than showing integrity.

[freakboy6117]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

The authority has really been let down by this sudden conclusion problem.

 

Deus ex is used to resolve almost all of the story lines the notable exceptions to this are jenny sparks electrocuting the god entity and the doctor actually coming up with a good plan to defeat the renegade doctor. The simple idea of Swift convincing Jacob Krigstein to join them instead of continuing his war. I’m not sure if Midnighters use of the carrier to pop the defense field over Gamorra island would be classed or not.

 

The rest of the time some power of the doctor or jenny saves the day the last one was particularly bad not only did it create a temporal paradox it didn’t actually make any sense.

 

There are some really clever ideas in the authority some absolutely monstrous villains but the lack of a real resolution and the fact that later series forgot about character development in favor of more wide screen action. There have actually been one or two good character development episodes lately but the murderous taint has corrupted the series.

 

I think The Authority represents the importance of the CVK whilst they started only killing in self defense it soon became a matter of course all who stood against them died no matter how powerful now they murder with a sense of glee and vengeful pleasure.

[IanSokoliwski]

my $0.02

 

Hmmm....

 

I've been an on-and-off Authority reader for a while (picked up a couple of trades, mostly for the Hitch artwork, and all the Coup D'etat stuff, plus the first handful of issues from the recent run), and I'd like to share my thoughts and problems about this series as well.

 

This book is 10lbs of visceral fun in a 5lb bag, that is true. The whole 'watching super heroes wiping out their opponents with extreme prejudice' angle was kinda fun. At first.

 

And I LOVED the scale. Heck, I even ran a 10 000 000xp game of 1st Ed AD&D for a while based on the scale/concepts from the Authority. Those ideas really translate well into a game where the good guys are supposed to kill the bad guys.

 

However.

 

My first problem (and this was pretty much from day one) is that the Authority is in the same universe as any other super heroes. Because, quite simply, I think every other hero in that universe would come gunning for the Authority at one point or another.

 

I mean, jeez, Mr Majestic alone (being, from his series a few years ago, a more moral person than ANYBODY in the Authority) would have single-handedly gutted the Carrier just to wipe out their main advantage (totally unlimited teleportation, no matter the distance or what type of metal or mineral surrounds the target teleportation spot), then handed them their butts. Remember, this guy spent a few decades re-organizing the solar system (hence his lack of involvement in Vietnam, for example) to prevent the Earth from being destroyed by an Elder God-level baddie (rather than trying to kill it); MM's got some serious power.

 

(Okay, I know that he is some sort of god-thing now, and doesn't necessarily want to deal with the problems of the mortal world any longer - still, I think some of the stunts the Authority have pulled since that happened would make him turn around and take notice. Then BLAMMO, no Carrier. Actually, that might be all that that he would bother doing 'cause as powerful as they are, it is really only the Carrier that gives them the real advantage over other superteams and such)(feel free to disagree with this assessment - I'm interested in how other folks view the Carrier)

 

Second, okay, yeah, they are in the morally-bankrupt Wildstorm Universe, where every government appears to be run by evil corporations (whatever happened to 'good' corporations? Or 'mildly apathetic' corporations, for that matter?) and other sources of corruption. Sure, in that setting, the actions of the Authority (as a whole, not necessarily some of the actions by certain individuals - I'm looking at you, Midnighter) may seem justified, heck maybe even 'morally superior'. BUT. If there is that level of corruption in that particular universe, why are the 'most powerful' heroes free from that same corruption? (the answer is, they aren't, and that would explain some of the 'less moral' actions of some of the members - still looking at you, Midnighter).

 

Okay, so, reading about morally-questionable people isn't necessarily bad (remember, the series of novels about 'Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever' is pretty popular, even though the main character rapes an innocent woman FOR NO REASON - not even some sort of thrill or mental problem or anything - in the first novel; me, I can't stand the series, but lots of people disagree with me), perhaps even giving us some sort of vicarious thrill ('keeping the gators fed' is a quote by Stephen King about that sort of thrill). I'm just wondering how much characters like this have spilled over into other series.

 

(on the positive side, there was an issue of Superman where he battled an Authority-style group. He ended up taking them out using the same underhanded amoral tactics they did, but at the end, the reader discovered that it was all a sham, that he had actually treated them fairly, didn't kill anybody, just to prove that morality CAN win over immorality)(no, I don't recall which issue off-hand)

 

I mean, DC now has this JLElite series, which is kinda the DCU version of the Authority. I'm not sure what that means, but can an Authority-clone work in the DCU which is generally seen as being not as evil, amoral, and corrupt as the WSU (or even the Marvel Universe, for that matter)?

 

Okay, I'm rambling. I guess all I'm saying is, I really enjoyed the Millar/Hitch run, wasn't so happy with the later stuff (can you count all the plot holes in the Evil Doctor storyline?). I really liked the concept behind Coup D'etat (even with its' similarities to the 'Squadron Supreme' miniseries - it is a good idea, and open to a few different interpretations), but not the current series so much.

 

However, to end this rant on a positive note, a much more interesting view of super heroes and (kinda sorta) real-world political corruption, have many of you checked out the one-shot 'JLA: Superpower'? It is a pretty cool book about a new super hero, one who idolizes Superman and much of the JLA, joining the team. However, he begins to take a tarnished view on how the JLA (and, specifically, Superman) deal with the major threats (the Saddam Husseins and such of the DCU). Eventually, he single-handedly overthrows one of these dictator nations, and...well, it is a pretty effective ending, I think. If you like some of what the Authority was about, but overall felt it left a bad taste in your mouth, try and hunt down a copy of 'JLA: Superpower' (from '99 or around there).

[Wanderer]

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

 

I had a LONG and extremely angry rant written up about the above. But I deleted it. I'm going to try to be above that sort of things because it does nothing but make me look like a jerk and wouldn't do anything but upset fans of the book that aren't so bad.

 

Well, I'm saddened that a little light-hearted joke like that upset and angered you so much. Hearing one of the staunchest defenders of four-color lamenting the overpresence of Autohrity was an almost irresistible temptation for a little benign teasing. Easy out, please. You're welcome to do the same once you hear me lament about the overpresence of Superman.

 

 

I'll say this much. If The Authority and its ilk are the type of comic book fiction you enjoy that's fine. They're all escapism, fantasy and modern day legends about people flying around in silly costumes fighting. But PLEASE, for the sake of civility if nothing else don't tell me I have to like it or how superior it is.

 

No intention to harass you in order to tell you what to read. The only thing that annoys me about four-color likers is the way they not too rarely willfully deny that non-four-color stuff is real superhero comics, or that its characters aren't heroic when they act heroic, if they don't drink milk, kiss babies, salute the flag, and abstain from alcohol and premarital sex, too. As long as they do this, I'm fine with them and their tastes.

 

 

Its not any more realistic. Its darker and more cynical. Iron Age has as many tropes and stupid conventions, often as black and white a morality as anything in the Silver or Bronze Ages. At its worst, Iron Age IS Silver Age just with more blood and flesh tone thrown in for shock value and pruient thrills. The day ALL comics are like The Authority is the day I stop buying and reading comics. Simple as that. Still, its all good. I'm not going to come to your house and burn your collection of Authority issues. Just let me read my Avengers and Justice League in peace and I'll return the favor.

 

Believe it or not, shock value and body count aren't the things that attract me most about Authority. Sure, it thrills to see a superhuman battle that is drawn like a realistic superpowered battle, and not a Ren Fen one with mock weapons, without none of that "A punch or blast strong enough to destroy a tank is less lethal on human beings than an handgun bullet" crap. And most Authority enemies are purposefully (and unrealistically, this I easily concede) written so evil than summarily and remorselessly killing them truly feels like the right thing to do.

 

But there are other things that catch my approval more: the fact that it strongly highlights that being and acting heroic is a completely separate thing than holding to a conventional straitlaced squeaky-cklean morality code of conduct: you may do drugs, be sexually promiscous, gay, drink heavliy, cheat on your spouse, have savage parties till you zone out, and yet be a real hero because you save lives, protect the Earth, put youself on the line for the greater good, and strive to change the world for the better. Other comics subscribe to this point, but here the message is paticularly strong. Moreover, being a real hero does not mean you necessarily have to subscribe to the socio-political status quo; the heroic superhero ideal of acting to protect or do the greater good of mankind or the Earth is not the same as protecting or enforcing the status quo and sometimes it may actually mean you feel the responsibility to move against it in the name of a greater good or an higher justice. The scene where the Authority tells the U.S. President that overthrowing a genocidal dictator *is* their business, part of the responsibility they have to the world for their powers, and as concerned human beings, and realpolitik can go $%&£ itself, is priceless, worth any amount of cheap-thrill bloodbaths IMO. A more classical comic (the recent Thor "Reigning" story arc) explored the same issues with much less bloodbath, and I appreciated it just as much). The scene where Thor addresses the UN, telling the cowered politicians that feeding the hungry masses, repairing environmental damage, and overthrowing dictators is his business from now on, and for true justice, a presidential chair is no excuse to shield a criminal, live it on with that, another priceless moment.