Need Help With Teleport Power

[Fenixcrest]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Well, actually I guessed you missed my whole point.

 

Probably because I didn't explain things well.

 

The point is, the object is mundane and not special in any way. Therefore, it doesn't need stats, probably won't have stats, or the stats themselves won't play enough of significance in the campaign to even bother with.

 

Just like normal cars in the Superhero campaign don't have stats. The GM might decide to reference how fast that car can go, if time becomes matter of concern for the game, but otherwise he won't even look at it. The vehicle just gets the characer from point A to pont B. That's all that matters and rarely does that vehicle come into play unless the GM wants it to.

 

Wait, so the object doesn't actually do anything at all? If it doesn't really do anything, then it isn't a power. It's not an object, either. Maybe Images? I dunno.

 

For example, a rock doesn't need stats. It's just something you pick up and chuck at somebody. If it does do something, however, then it can be statted out as a power. Haven't you seen all the stats for things like duct tape that people post on this board? A length of rope could have all kinds of stats. It can be Stretching if tied into a lasso, it can be Clingling if it has a grappling hook. It can be an entangle with trigger if it's meant for a snare trap... hm.. append "Variable Advantages/Disadvantages" to the above Elemental Control...

 

 

 

That's why I suggested the above Elemental Control construct. It provides enough versatility to create/summon the objects you want, and allows others to use them via Physical Manifestation and Usable by Others.

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Thanks for proving my point.

 

A rope doesn't have stats. The gm decides what can be done with it when the character picks it up.

 

If the character want's to use a rope as a power, a VPP is exactly what you need, since it is so versatile.

 

So all these things you think this object can do, will be up to the GM to decide, not the character. Why? Because it's a normal everyday object that anyone can use.

 

Sorry if you having a hard time understanding this idea.

 

BTW: As I said before, the character can Teleport a "Single Unique Object". If it's a piece of granite he likes, then he will be able to teleport it to himself. That piecie of granite only, not any other, for the rest of his life. That's it, that's all the character can do with this object.

 

If you are trying to convince me of something, I'm not sure what it is, and you are not going about it in the right way. (8^D)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Assuming a Supers campaign, where equipment is purchased with points, not $$, your "Teleport the object here" power is useless unless you've purchased the object's abilities.

 

Player: "I use my 61 point telepoort to bring my rope here".

 

GM: "OK"

 

Player: "I tie up the bad guy with it."

 

GM: "No, you'd have to buy an Entangle to have a rope that can tie up the bad guy."

 

Player: "Well, I'll swing from the roof with my rope."

 

GM: "Did you BUY swinging?"

 

In other words, your amazing Summon Rope ability is only a special effect for the things you can do with the rope. It's not a separate power, complete unto itself.

[KA.]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Schir1964,

I think you have fallen into something that happens here fairly often.

When you ask a question that is missing a piece of information, people start to think like "GM's".

Meaning that they are expecting some kind of "hook", or they think you are trying to "get something past them".

 

I have asked questions for campaigns where I was the GM, but didn't bother to say so, since it shouldn't effect the answer; only to have people "nail" me, by saying "You will never get this past your GM!" or "Better not try this in MY game, buster!"

 

I think people are so concerned about what the object is that you are trying to teleport, that they can't see past it to answer your question.

 

They are thinking that you are going to want to "summon" a machine-gun, or motorcycle, or tank. Something that would have a massive in-game effect, so they don't want to "sign off" on the legality of using Teleport to bring it to you, if it should really be represented by some other construct.

 

I am not saying that you have to tell us what the object is.

 

You obviously do not want to, or are standing by your stance that as long as it is a common object, it should not matter what it is.

 

But I think that is why some people are being a bit cagey about giving you a straight answer.

 

As for myself, I would have to know what the object was to give an answer, because I see the teleportation as a "special effect" rather than a power.

 

Example: I want to be "The Bibliophile". One of my abilities is to be able to summon a book on any topic to my hands at any time.

I would buy this as a combination of Cramming, Eidetic Memory, Speed Reading, and Universal Translator.

 

I know this is way more variable, and probably more useful, than the kind of thing you are talking about, I was just looking for some sort of example.

 

But the main thing is, I don't really see the T-port as the Power, just the SFX.

So, you would have to figure out some way to buy the object itself.

 

Hope this doesn't seem argumentative, I don't mean it that way at all, just trying to help clear things up.

 

KA.

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Assuming a Supers campaign, where equipment is purchased with points, not $$, your "Teleport the object here" power is useless unless you've purchased the object's abilities.

Actually, wrong. Read the Money Perk.

 

Excerpts:

"...Thus, at the start of a modern campaign the GM could assume each character has a home, a job, a vehicle, and about $5,000..."

 

"...Money matters less in some campaigns than in others. Incredibly wealthly superheroes aren't uncommon, and even perpetually impoverished superheroes somehow always seem to be able to afford all those nifty gadgets they use..."

 

I won't bother to poke holes in your example because it would be pointless. I will just make a guess that in your campaign if a superhero were to knock out a villian and look around and find a rope/cord/whatever, that you won't let him tie up the villian, since they didn't buy an entangle. Based on what you said in you example, that would be the conclusion I would make. Might be completely wrong, but then I don't have all the information and therefore it my conclusion doesn't matter.

 

If you aren't going to try to help me, why post? (8^D)

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

KA!!!

 

Who told you that you could use Telepathy on me! (8^D)

 

I think you've really help explained a lot of things. Thanks.

 

I noticed that you and others that know me have not questioned my reasoning on this. I guess you guys know where I was coming from to begin with.

 

I'm not about to go into any more details on this power since I don't know if my players are lurking around.

 

Your example is good, except in this case, once the character decides what book he wants, that's it, that's all he'll ever be able to bring to himself. If it's a Dictionary, then it will be that specific dictionary from that point on.

 

And no, I didn't find your post to be argumentative in the least, but it did help drain some of my frustration away. (8^D)

 

Again, thanks. (8^D)

[Foxiekins]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Okay, let's turn our brains backwards, and think the other way... A point of DEF cost 3 Active Points... A point of BODY costs 2 Active Points... What's the DEF and BODY of the Object...? It can be treated as that many points, at a minimum, and a Summon cost calculated thereby...

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Okay' date=' let's turn our brains backwards, and think the other way... A point of DEF cost 3 Active Points... A point of BODY costs 2 Active Points... What's the DEF and BODY of the Object...? It can be treated as that many points, at a minimum, and a Summon cost calculated thereby...[/quote']

 

Okay, I'll give you another chance to convince me.

 

Why do you think that Summon is more appropriate than the Teleportation, as I've defined it above for a Normal Mundane Object.

 

What reference have I missed in the 5th Edition or FAQs that addresses this?

 

I've given my reasons why I think Teleportation is more appropriate. You might not agree with them, but just because you disagree with my reasons will not in any way convince me to agree with you reasons.

 

I'll even give another example where DEF and Body don't make difference.

(Superhero Genre)

The object for this example with be ordinary skateboard. Anybody can use it, might require a dex roll by the GM, and might add and inch or two to a character's running. Not really any value since it's a Superhero game.

 

Now if you going to say that the character MUST buy that 1 or 2 Inches of running as a power, otherwise he can't use a normal skateboard, we can stop right here and not discuss any further, because we will never agree.

(0 DEF, 1 or 2 Body) Active Points: 1 or 2.

To Summon Normal Skateboard: 2 Points.

 

Sometime later, skateboard gets broken, character gets the skateboard repaired and reinforced so it doesn't break so easy. Doesn't add any other benefits. It's just really tough to break now. Can still be broken. But tough.

(10 DEF, 20 Body) Active Point: 70 Points.

Well, can't summon the skateboard anymore, it's beyond the summon's ability now.

 

Teleportation would still work in this case, since the object's mass is still under 100 Kgs. It doesn't have more mass than a human.

 

And I could also come up with corollary where the Mass increased beyond the Teleportation's capablity, but not even effect the Summon.

 

My concept of the power is that the Mass is what the limiting factor is, not the Active Points of the object, since the usefulness of the object will be limited by the GM anyway.

 

Ok, if you still think you can convince me, I'm willing to listen. If you decide that my example makes no sense, don't bother trying to convince it doesn't. Unless you can back it up with specific examples from the 5th Edition that will contradict it directly.

 

My mind can be changed, but only through pure logic backed up by references from the book, not by opinions about how the Campaign should be run. You can ask KA, Dust Raven, or others here that know me. I'm thick headed sometimes, but if you can create an argument that I can't poke holes in, you have a good chance of convincing me.

 

Otherwise, I'll just end up frustrating you. (8^D)

[Foxiekins]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

If you define the teleport as the ability to teleport a particular object, such as a particular skateboard, and then you alter the skateboard by improving its DEF and BODY, then it isn't the same object any longer, and the teleport won't work either...

 

Second, a Universal Focus can be used by anyone who picks it up... page 190 of FRED, under Applicability...

 

Third, under Heroic Rules, a character pays for Equipment with Money, not Character Points... But this does NOT mean objects don't have a point cost... One recommended method in the rules, in fact, is to use the point cost of an object to calculate its monetary cost... Equipment is built with points, even in Heroic Campaigns, it's just that Heroic characters have an option other than character points for getting them...

[Dust Raven]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

schir.....You've convinced me of one thing...this ability should not be based upon Teleport or Summon.

 

What you've basically got is a Power that doesn't actually do anything, or if it does anything at all it's rather minor.

 

So okay, what's you object? A pen, a d6, a book, a library card? Doesn't matter. Those objects wouldn't cost points even if you wanted them to (except maybe the book, see below). So, build it like this:

 

Ordinary Object (base cost 0 points) with UBO at Range and whatever else you'd like to but there, and then limit the Power accordingly, such as with Restrainable or whatever might keep him from teleporting it back. Total cost is 0. Except that the minimum cost of anything in Hero is 1.

 

The cost of your spiffy trick is 1 point. I just don't see any reason why it should cost more, if it doesn't actually do anything.

 

As for books... You can always buy a book as a KS through a Focus. And then throw your UBO at Range Persistant on that, and simply say that taking the Power back is the SFX of the teleportation.

 

Would this solve any problems?

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

I think you are suffering under a delusion. Yes you can *use* a OMO (Ordinary Mundane Object) without paying for it in a Superheroic game. Say you are Filthy Rich and buy an Enzo Ferrari. Fine No problemo kimosabe but, if you use it to get to and from Combat, chase down villians and otherwise Style at the corner you *have* to pay points for it.

 

In other words, you have Brick X. Brick X picks up a rock and hurls it at Acid Queen. No Problem. He throws, he hits she takes STUN end of story. But if Brick X wants to throw rocks at everyone, lots of times. The GM is certainly entitled to suggest he buy EB OIF object of opportunity -1/2 Range limited by STR -1/4 etc. Why? Because rock throwing has become part of Brick X's arsenal of amazing abilities.

 

It all depends on how you play it. If your team buys walkie talkies to communicate, then they *should* buy it as Radio/listen Transmit OAF.

 

A pen is another matter entirely, mainly because it has so little use in game. Unless you are Bullseye. In that case see the above example of Brick X.

 

Hawksmoor

[Dust Raven]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

I know schir, and I doubt he's suffering from delusions. Unless you were addressing me, in which case you might be right.

 

I really think he just wants a normal object and won't have any in game use whatsoever. At least no more use than a mundane object of insignificent worth can have. It really sounds like nothing more than a spiffy trick rather than a Power of any kind.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

The delusion thing is not meant literally. I was refering to his statements about money in relation to superheroic genre HERO. PCs don't get to as I said buy Nokia phones to keep in touch canonically they have to spend points.

 

I still think if he teleport/summons his Mont Blanc and somehow uses it in combat or NCM for good purpose a significant portion of the time he has to pay for it.

 

For instance his NEO (normal everyday object) is his blankie. His character Dr. Dissolvo has a 25 Enraged Berserk, BUT he has his disad bought off with a power that 'erases' his disad. Net result no points. But if the Power was linked to the presence of said favorite blankie then he would need to buy the summon. See? Since no matter where his blankie was he could gain it and prevent his Berserker tendencies.

 

Hawksmoor

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Actually, wrong. Read the Money Perk.

 

Excerpts:

"...Thus, at the start of a modern campaign the GM could assume each character has a home, a job, a vehicle, and about $5,000..."

 

"...Money matters less in some campaigns than in others. Incredibly wealthly superheroes aren't uncommon, and even perpetually impoverished superheroes somehow always seem to be able to afford all those nifty gadgets they use..."

 

I won't bother to poke holes in your example because it would be pointless. I will just make a guess that in your campaign if a superhero were to knock out a villian and look around and find a rope/cord/whatever, that you won't let him tie up the villian, since they didn't buy an entangle. Based on what you said in you example, that would be the conclusion I would make. Might be completely wrong, but then I don't have all the information and therefore it my conclusion doesn't matter.

 

If you aren't going to try to help me, why post? (8^D)

 

You're being very sleective in what quotes you choose to refer to. A home, a job, a vehicle and $5,000 have no effect on the character's success as a Super. It may not be in 5e, but I recall an excellent statement from a Hero product that a character can be assumed to have a car, but if he wants to use it in his heroic identity to enhance his movement, he has to pay points for it.

 

Similarly, a character can use anything he finds lying around in the course of combat - be it a cord to tie up the villain, or a VIPER blaster to fire on another VIPER agent. But if he wants to keep it and use it regularly, he has to pay the points for it.

 

If a Brick wants to pick up an object and throw it, great. If he always wants such an object to be available, he has to pay the points to buy this rock that he will carry around with him.

 

As Hawksmoor states, the teleportation is a special effect of the power you want, not the power itelf. The power itself depends wholly on the object, and that is why you aren't getting an answer on what the power should cost. It will cost whatever the actual abilities conferred by the constant presence of this object will confer.

 

Let's use an example (a nice silly one). Let's say you want to be able to teleport a feather to you. Just a simple, ordinary crow's feather - a specifc one. What would this cost? Well, for 99.999% of the population, it will cost nothing. It's a feather. It doesn't DO anything. Even if it happens to trigger Dr. Parrot's mindless rage against people who despoil avians, or the Wheezer's 3d6 Susceptibility to Animal Products, that's a function of Dr. Parrot and Wheezer's unique disadvantages, and it doesn't cost you any extra, any more than Fire Guy has to pay for a 3d6 NND vs. people with 3d6 susceptibilities against flame attacks.

 

But let's say your character's name is "Dumbo", and he has 40" Gliding and 30" Flight that only work if he has his Lucky Feather clutched in his trunk. That feather would normally be either an OAF or an IAF (depending on how blabby he is about the feather letting him fly). Well, if he can summon it to his trunk just by thinking about it, the feather is now an IIF, at worst, and those point savings are going to have to be reversed.

 

It's not what the object is, whether mundane or magical. What it does determines the effect of your power to bring it to you at any time. The effect of your power determines its cost. For an ordinarly mundane object as you describe, it may just be a snazzy special effect of the character, and cost no points at all, But the cost depends on what you want the object to do, not how your special effects will bring it to you.

 

Sorry if you find my comments unhelpful, but the simple fact is that you have fixated on the name of the power "Teleport" as the only way you could possibly teleport an object to you, and that fixation seems to be preventing you from considering that there may be other power builds possible. "Reason from effect" is the key here.

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

If you define the teleport as the ability to teleport a particular object, such as a particular skateboard, and then you alter the skateboard by improving its DEF and BODY, then it isn't the same object any longer, and the teleport won't work either...

 

Really? The skateboard is no longer the character's favorite skateboard?

Wrong, sorry, you lose. Still his favorite skateboard, Teleport still works. That's a Campaign issue thing decided by the GM. Try again.

 

Second, a Universal Focus can be used by anyone who picks it up... page 190 of FRED, under Applicability...

Wrong again, it's not a focus. It's no more a focus than a character's normal home, based on Money Perk, is a focus. Again, GM Campaign opinion.

 

Third, under Heroic Rules, a character pays for Equipment with Money, not Character Points... But this does NOT mean objects don't have a point cost... One recommended method in the rules, in fact, is to use the point cost of an object to calculate its monetary cost... Equipment is built with points, even in Heroic Campaigns, it's just that Heroic characters have an option other than character points for getting them...

Wrong again, the Optional Money Scheme is decided by the GM for his Campaign. That's the equivalent of saying that in Heroic Games everything must be purchased with Money, even Powers, which is not true.

 

Try again.

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

schir.....You've convinced me of one thing...this ability should not be based upon Teleport or Summon.

 

What you've basically got is a Power that doesn't actually do anything, or if it does anything at all it's rather minor.

 

So okay, what's you object? A pen, a d6, a book, a library card? Doesn't matter. Those objects wouldn't cost points even if you wanted them to (except maybe the book, see below). So, build it like this:

 

Ordinary Object (base cost 0 points) with UBO at Range and whatever else you'd like to but there, and then limit the Power accordingly, such as with Restrainable or whatever might keep him from teleporting it back. Total cost is 0. Except that the minimum cost of anything in Hero is 1.

 

The cost of your spiffy trick is 1 point. I just don't see any reason why it should cost more, if it doesn't actually do anything.

 

As for books... You can always buy a book as a KS through a Focus. And then throw your UBO at Range Persistant on that, and simply say that taking the Power back is the SFX of the teleportation.

 

Would this solve any problems?

 

I think you've got it nailed down Dust Raven, and under other circumstances I would agree with you 100%. The main difference is that the character want's to be to get this item to him whenever he wants under just about any circumstance, GM allowing. That's what the character is paying for, that reliability. And I'm sure you're thinking that it's a waste of points and in most games it would be, but in this game, points aren't a limiting factor, so it doesn't matter how many points the power will be. So main limiting factor becomes just how much mass is trying to be moved since the item in question won't have any major effect other than GM plot or window dressing for the character.

 

I'm glad at least a couple of people understand. (8^D)

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

I think you are suffering under a delusion. Yes you can *use* a OMO (Ordinary Mundane Object) without paying for it in a Superheroic game. Say you are Filthy Rich and buy an Enzo Ferrari. Fine No problemo kimosabe but' date=' if you use it to get to and from Combat, chase down villians and otherwise Style at the corner you *have* to pay points for it.[/quote']

 

Really? Well based on this I would guess then, that if you have a character that always take the public bus to get from crime scene to crime scene your going to make him pay points for that bus. Hey it's your game, have fun with it. Fortunately, I don't have to deal with that. (8^D)

 

I won't bother with the rest of you post since it based on this GM Campaign thing, which I'm not going to debate since it's not your game we are talking about. And would pointless.

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

I know schir, and I doubt he's suffering from delusions. Unless you were addressing me, in which case you might be right.

 

I really think he just wants a normal object and won't have any in game use whatsoever. At least no more use than a mundane object of insignificent worth can have. It really sounds like nothing more than a spiffy trick rather than a Power of any kind.

 

BULLSEYE!!!

 

Exactly, except the character wants this reliability with it and helps with the whole character background window dressing thing. A really expensive quirk, but that is what the character wants. And since there's no point limit to worry about. I just needed to help in getting the Advantages/Limitations nailed down to make it proper game mechanics wise.

 

Didn't realize I was going to be crucified for it. (8^D)

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

The delusion thing is not meant literally. I was refering to his statements about money in relation to superheroic genre HERO. PCs don't get to as I said buy Nokia phones to keep in touch canonically they have to spend points.

 

I still think if he teleport/summons his Mont Blanc and somehow uses it in combat or NCM for good purpose a significant portion of the time he has to pay for it.

 

For instance his NEO (normal everyday object) is his blankie. His character Dr. Dissolvo has a 25 Enraged Berserk, BUT he has his disad bought off with a power that 'erases' his disad. Net result no points. But if the Power was linked to the presence of said favorite blankie then he would need to buy the summon. See? Since no matter where his blankie was he could gain it and prevent his Berserker tendencies.

 

Hawksmoor

 

Actually, the object I had in mind would not be useful in combat, but may have some usefullness out of combat. But the GM will obviously smack down the character if he tried to do what you are suggesting, especially for the long run. So, no harm, no foul.

 

I don't know how your games go, but in ours, lots of roleplaying does happen out of combat. In fact, we tend roleplay out of combat more than in combat, so maybe that's where you might not understand where this is coming from.

 

So far, you are still tallking a GM Campaign issue instead of actual rules issue.

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

You're being very sleective in what quotes you choose to refer to. A home' date=' a job, a vehicle and $5,000 have no effect on the character's success as a Super. It may not be in 5e, but I recall an excellent statement from a Hero product that a character can be assumed to have a car, but if he wants to use it in his heroic identity to enhance his movement, he has to pay points for it.[/quote']

 

A few things.

First, I was selective in that I quoted those passages that concerned with what I was trying to explain.

Second, I wanted references from 5ht Edition to keep House Ruling to a mininum.

Third, I never said that this object was going to enhance anything for the character in combat.

 

If a Hero decides to drive his porche into combat, he better be prerpared to have it destroyed by the villians. Which means a long walk home for him, insurance problems, and so forth. Again, normal items are easily controlled by the GM. Even for the rich ones. (8^D)

 

If you are equating driving a normal car being equivalent to the a super power such as Running, well then, I guess trying to discuss this further with you would be pointless. I mean, normal vehicles are registered, you have to have a license, you must obey the laws while driving, etc, etc, etc...

 

Similarly, a character can use anything he finds lying around in the course of combat - be it a cord to tie up the villain, or a VIPER blaster to fire on another VIPER agent. But if he wants to keep it and use it regularly, he has to pay the points for it.

 

If a Brick wants to pick up an object and throw it, great. If he always wants such an object to be available, he has to pay the points to buy this rock that he will carry around with him.

Again, you presuming a lot from something I never said. Read all above for answer.

 

As Hawksmoor states, the teleportation is a special effect of the power you want, not the power itelf. The power itself depends wholly on the object, and that is why you aren't getting an answer on what the power should cost. It will cost whatever the actual abilities conferred by the constant presence of this object will confer.

And if the value/cost, in combat, of the object is zero? The power should be zero? See Dust Raven's posts above for answer.

 

Let's use an example (a nice silly one). Let's say you want to be able to teleport a feather to you. Just a simple, ordinary crow's feather - a specifc one. What would this cost? Well, for 99.999% of the population, it will cost nothing. It's a feather. It doesn't DO anything. Even if it happens to trigger Dr. Parrot's mindless rage against people who despoil avians, or the Wheezer's 3d6 Susceptibility to Animal Products, that's a function of Dr. Parrot and Wheezer's unique disadvantages, and it doesn't cost you any extra, any more than Fire Guy has to pay for a 3d6 NND vs. people with 3d6 susceptibilities against flame attacks.

Precisely! By george I think he's got it. Supports my point actually, maybe I'm missing something.

 

But let's say your character's name is "Dumbo", and he has 40" Gliding and 30" Flight that only work if he has his Lucky Feather clutched in his trunk. That feather would normally be either an OAF or an IAF (depending on how blabby he is about the feather letting him fly). Well, if he can summon it to his trunk just by thinking about it, the feather is now an IIF, at worst, and those point savings are going to have to be reversed.

And since this isn't what I'm talking about. It has no relevance for this discussion. Might as well said that the sky is blue. Ok.

 

It's not what the object is, whether mundane or magical. What it does determines the effect of your power to bring it to you at any time. The effect of your power determines its cost. For an ordinarly mundane object as you describe, it may just be a snazzy special effect of the character, and cost no points at all, But the cost depends on what you want the object to do, not how your special effects will bring it to you.

Ah, I see where you are missing it. It's actually not about what the object does, since the GM won't allow for any shenanigans using it. It's about the character's fixation with the object and wants the ability to bring it to him whenever he wants.

 

Sorry if you find my comments unhelpful, but the simple fact is that you have fixated on the name of the power "Teleport" as the only way you could possibly teleport an object to you, and that fixation seems to be preventing you from considering that there may be other power builds possible. "Reason from effect" is the key here.

"Reason From Effect", precisely, thank you proving my point. That's what I've done and that's why I'm convinced Teleportation is the most appropriate power to build the power from.

 

The character wants the reliability of bring the favored single object to him. It's a normal mundane object that could easily be destroyed beyond repair in combat, just like any other normal mundane object. The object will not give him any special abilities in combat. It might and probably will have some benefits outside of combat.

 

I have my reasons for not mentioning the object in mind. But now, I can see that if I did mention it, most here would become fixated on how that object could be used in combat, even if it meant it's destruction for all time. (8^D)

 

Well, no one has really tried to convince me of anything other than how the GM should handle his campaign. No references, sporadic bits of logic with no real cohesion to it.

 

Well, can't say you guys didn't try. I was all ears. But I just don't get it.

Obviously most you don't get it either, at least where I'm coming from, and that's probably my fault for not explaining it right.

 

Thanks, it's been very entertaining. (8^D)

 

I'll continue checking this thread if anyone else has comments.

[Fenixcrest]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Wait... so it's like this guy's "lucky charm"?

 

Just an object that his character is fixated on, but doesn't really do anything?

 

If it's a portable object, why don't we just say the guy keeps it in his pocket?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Third' date=' I never said that this object was going to enhance anything for the character [i']in combat[/i]

 

Nor has anyone else. An object with noncombat uses can also have a point value. Detective Work is useless in combat, as are non combat movement multiples, yet they still cost points.

 

If a Hero decides to drive his porche into combat' date=' he better be prerpared to have it destroyed by the villians. Which means a long walk home for him, insurance problems, and so forth. Again, normal items are easily controlled by the GM. Even for the rich ones. (8^D)[/quote']

 

Yet, if I want my character to have a porsche to driuve into combat, it costs points. Even if I want it to drive between scenes (so I don't need a big movement power to get around) it costs points. The question is what is the object used for. Whether that use is in or out of combat is irrelevant.

 

If you are equating driving a normal car being equivalent to the a super power such as Running' date=' well then, I guess trying to discuss this further with you would be pointless. I mean, normal vehicles are registered, you have to have a license, you must obey the laws while driving, etc, etc, etc...[/quote']

 

And thus it costs less points than Running. But it's still an advantage over walking everywhere, so it does cost something.

 

And if the value/cost, in combat, of the object is zero? The power should be zero? See Dust Raven's posts above for answer.

 

No, if the value in or out of combat is zero the cost should be zero. A Limitation that does not limit saves no points. Similarly, an ability that grants no benefits should cost no points.

 

Precisely! By george I think he's got it. Supports my point actually, maybe I'm missing something.

 

 

And since this isn't what I'm talking about. It has no relevance for this discussion. Might as well said that the sky is blue. Ok.

 

The two are a comparison. If the object has no usefulness to the character, the ability to have it around at all times costs nothing. If it has uses, the cost should be commensurate with its usefulness. Note that, sometimes, paragraphs and points relate one to the other, and should not simply be read in isolation.

 

Ah, I see where you are missing it. It's actually not about what the object does, since the GM won't allow for any shenanigans using it. It's about the character's fixation with the object and wants the ability to bring it to him whenever he wants.

 

If the object does nothing, then it's a special effect and shouldn't carry a cost. My character has a superhero costume, but he doesn't pay points for being recognizable in it. I recall a character whose cape always flaps in the breeze, even if there is no breeze. No effect, no point cost. If yours always has, say, his Teddy Bear, then why should he pay points for it? It's just a bit of character for the character. [Apologies if, in fact, it IS his teddy bear and I have given away the plot.]

 

"Reason From Effect", precisely, thank you proving my point. That's what I've done and that's why I'm convinced Teleportation is the most appropriate power to build the power from.

 

Then you fail to understand the point. Just because an ability blinds someone, that doesn't make it a Flash. Similarly, just because a power brings something from elsewhere, that doesn't necessarily make it a Teleport.

 

The character wants the reliability of bring the favored single object to him. It's a normal mundane object that could easily be destroyed beyond repair in combat, just like any other normal mundane object. The object will not give him any special abilities in combat. It might and probably will have some benefits outside of combat.

 

Let's try it again. Then the cost should be based on the value of what it can do outside of combat. I can't say it any clearer, can I?

 

I have my reasons for not mentioning the object in mind. But now, I can see that if I did mention it, most here would become fixated on how that object could be used in combat, even if it meant it's destruction for all time. (8^D)

 

Perhaps most would. I doubt it. My answer would simply be "Because the character won't use it in combat, he doesn't pay the points for combat utility. Because he does not pay the points, he simply can't use it in combat - not that it is a physical impossibility, but that he just WON'T."

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Wait... so it's like this guy's "lucky charm"?

 

Just an object that his character is fixated on, but doesn't really do anything?

 

If it's a portable object, why don't we just say the guy keeps it in his pocket?

The object I have in mind is not portable, however, even a portable can be swiped, lost, misplaced, etc, etc, etc...

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Ok, instead of playing the game today which I can do ad infinitum, I'm just going to boil it down to one difference you and I are really discussing Hugh. Which happens to be simply GM opinion and not a actual rules item.

 

There's one example that we both latched onto which we and all other GM's make their own opinion on and decide how they will handle it in their game.

 

If the character has a normal car as described by the Money Perk, the GM has to make the descision, for his campaign. Will I force the player pay points for this vehicle or will I let the character simply pay money for it. That's what the GM has to decide, there is no rule that says the the GM should, ought, must make this character pay points for this vehicle even if it sometime benefits him during play.

 

My GM and I both think it's not important enough to even bother with. If the character starts using it as combat vehicle or a headquarters information station, then it will be dealt with in game time. The car get destroyed the character has to replace it by buying another with his money, insurance costs, etc...

 

If the character doesn't want to deal with those headaches, he can stop relying on the car so much, or he can pay points for another vehicle that will be able to withstand being the focus of the villians.

 

An even more extreme example of this would be a character that always hides behind a wall for protection during a battle. The character gets the benefit of the DEF and Body of the wall. It is the players standard tactic. Notice I said player and not character. Now the GM can decide how to handle this several ways. He can deal with it in game terms, gets reputation for cowardice, not a good team player, will leave team members in the lurch, and so forth. He could deal with in the way I can only presume you would, and make him pay points for the wall since he will always find something to hide behind. The GM could force him into position where he can't hide, but that's another whole discussion.

 

You can run your games however you like Hugh, but you haven't convinced me nor have you really given any evidence that car must be paid for by points, not by the rules at least.

 

I know that it seems inconcievable to many GMs out there that someone would spend 30 to 60 points on something that in their view is worth only as a 1 Point quirk. Hey, that fine, I understand that. But to say it is wrong for them to do that because... it's not worth that much, well that's quite out there also. In the same tone, there aren't that many GMs that would not have point limits on powers either, but then again that's how our game is run at this point.

 

I asked for help making sure I was using the right Advantages/Limitations for a Teleportation power that did xyz. I get a couple of people who helped me, and then I get besieged by others saying how I'm doiing it all wrong. I didn't ask for people to tell me how I or my GM ought to run the campaign. (8^D)

 

Okay.... well, I'll have to put a disclaimer the next time I ask for help here. Seems some people are bit too tense about what they think is right. Sorry to have frustrated you. (8^D)

 

Dust Raven, KA, thanks for being there. (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

[TaxiMan]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

OK, since points aren't an issue, this construct works to provide the ability to call a specific object from anywhere on Earth to the character:

 

I call on Thee!

(expensive) VPP

Control Cost has No Skill Roll Required, 0 phase, Only to mimic calling Object X (-2), Range limited to Earth (-0)

 

Make the VPP 10x the active point cap for the campaign. Or more - I'm a little confused about the whole "points don't matter" concept. But I look at your power idea as a puzzle and if you let me spend infinite points, the solution is easy.

 

I'm really not being sarcastic, facetious, or what have you. It's just that defining a power like this is too broad - it's similar in possible repercussions to a "Time Stop" power. For "Time Stop" I'd say a 10^6 pt cosmic VPP would work - it's undoubtably overkill but I bet it can cover "Time Stop" (unless I run into another super with powers beyond my own). If I don't have to worry about points then I can cut my losses and quit trying to figure it out with this power construct.

 

Otherwise, I've completely failed to provide you a low-cost way to model this ability.