Character Building Issues Midgame

[Super Squirrel]

Bob build a character. He gives the character Damage Resistance to make his total EDr 5. He gives his character 75% Damage Reduction (Resistance) to Energy Attacks.

 

Game 4. Bob is hit with a Killing Fire Attack. GM announces that before defenses it is 20 points of damage.

 

Bob declares after defenses he took nothing.

 

GM looks at his sheet and points out he should have taken 3 points of Body.

 

Bob was under the impression it was Damage Resistance first then other defenses not the other way and had he known, wouldn't have built his character this way.

 

Does Bob get the option to rebuild now that he knows the difference?

[austenandrews]

Re: Character Building Issues Midgame

 

I generally give a player, especially a less experienced one, a chance to rework his character a bit after trying him out. It can be abused, of course.

 

-AA

[Mentor]

Re: Character Building Issues Midgame

 

We have also usually given a two or three game moratorium on finalizing a character if they misunderstood or misapplied an intended power or ability within their original concept. Your example would probably fall into that category.

 

We don't allow changes to the basic structure, like, "Dang, that Flash last game took me out of the fight for four phases. I'm buying Flash Defense instead if those skills."

 

It seems to work well for us.

[Agent X]

Re: Character Building Issues Midgame

 

Yeah, I would allow a rebuild but I would set there with the guy while it was done.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Character Building Issues Midgame

 

I don't see a problem with a rebuild staying in concept. The character is more important than the mechanics.

 

However, I also like players to submit some narrative on how their powers work up front (ie how PC and the public see the results rather than how player, GM and rulebook mechanically describe them). That tends to make such problems fairly obvious, as a GM should quickly note that the mechanical construct (5 DEF, 3/4 Red'n) will not result in "Bullets bounce off his nigh-invulnerable flesh". Of course, some items still fall through the cracks.

[lemming]

Re: Character Building Issues Midgame

 

I got no problem with adjustments. Especially for misconceptions.

[Magmarock]

Re: Character Building Issues Midgame

 

What Hugh said.

 

If a Player builds his own PC, then, he should read the power descriptions he buys for his PC. The rest can be caught when discussing SFX and such with the GM.

 

But this doesn't seem to be a mistake in character built, but more like incomprehension of how the damage-dealing rules work. Or even hopefullness that the GM doesn't know how damage is applied to defenses. I would look at the history of the player- is he someone who constantly reworks his PCs every other session? If yes, then I would tell the guy no. Because this guy is trying to "work the system" to his advantage and that is not the spirit of the game.

 

But if it is an honest mistake, then I'd let him change it, so long as it stays in concept.

 

Mags

[Agent X]

Re: Character Building Issues Midgame

 

Gaming isn't really about punishment. If you've got a guy who constantly reworks his character then you probably ought to screen the character real carefully at first. "Sticking" someone because you think they have cried wolf too many times just seems counterproductive.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Character Building Issues Midgame

 

I generally allow adjustments to characters even well into the campaign. I have to approve everything anyway....so nothing I hate is ever going to go through.

 

Rob

[TheEmerged]

Re: Character Building Issues Midgame

 

This is one area where I know I represent the liberal end of the argument. I'm *very* permissive when it comes to rewrites. Even with experienced players, sometimes the concept just doesn't work out in play. In the case stated in the original post I wouldn't even blink -- although if something odd like a 5 rED slipped through character creation it would really be my fault in the first place.

[Farkling]

Re: Character Building Issues Midgame

 

Ditto. I am for SNAFU rewrites.

 

I am also all for radiation accidents for players who say "i didn't realize we could do stuff like that"

 

That's how Josh went from minor mutant mercenary to mobile Plasma Projector.

[TrickstaPriest]

Re: Character Building Issues Midgame

 

Same here. I just want to know why they are changing things around. I tend to be a bit leery on changing an entire concept, though. If it doesn't work rules-wise for some reason but it seems to work in my head, I try and break it down thoroughly and look at the best way of summing it up. Probably most players/GMs feel that first and foremost the stats are a representation of what the character should be able to do. Points aren't something spent, merely a representation of the character's "power rating". Of course, this said, some character designs are far more "efficient" at allocating their points than others. I don't usually run into this though, as I tend to look fairly carefully at what the power's end result is, rules-wise, and what it is supposed to do.

 

Of course, recently while in the player-seat I've been learning that sometimes a design needs to be streamlined, as opposed to working out every single little detail. Going to have to remember to let players cut corners a little like that, and let them adjust for that later.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Character Building Issues Midgame

 

Character concepts can change or evolve. They can even devolve.

 

I originally concieved my character Zl'f (Back then she was known as Flash Dancer) as a super-gymnast/martial artist back in 1992. But I played her as more of a quasi-speedster from the get go, and the gymnast/martial artist aspect got short shrift. Her speciality was high speed Move Bys, and for 10 years she was pretty much a straight speedster. While she was an OK character, I always felt something was missing.

 

Two years ago I decided to "rediscover her roots." I rebuilt her as a very fast martial artist with a big emphasis on the gymnastics (22- Acrobatics roll); dropped her Running from Mach 2 down to 200 MPH; bought her a wider martial arts package which included Shove and Legsweep; dropped her classic speedster "vibrating through walls" Desolidification trick; lowered her CON and PD/ED slightly, reduced her max DC by 1d6, and finally changed her name to Zl'f ("Pixie" in Russian). All of this was with the encouragement of my GMs.

 

Now she is a much more effective (and fun!) character to play. She fights as a fast martial artist; albeit three-dimensionally with lots of Jedi-like leaping and spinning; has become a much more assertive and aggressive heroine; and become the acting leader of our superteam. (This was a role-playing challenge for me of the first order, since I tend to be a very passive or reactive player. I had to learn to act assertively.) She's finally built and played like I originally envisioned her, and Behold! My original idea was right! It just took me 10 years to do it right.

 

Guess I'm just a slow learner.

[lazarus]

Re: Character Building Issues Midgame

 

Seems to me they do this in the comics all the time

 

Laz

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Character Building Issues Midgame

 

Same here. I just want to know why they are changing things around. I tend to be a bit leery on changing an entire concept' date=' though.[/quote']

 

I agree that I don't generally like to see the whole concept changed. However, looked at from another angle, would you tell the player he can't retire his present character to bring in a new one? That's a change to the entire concept. With that in mind, is there anything inherently wrong with the "new character" being a rewrite of the "old character"?

 

It's not unprecedented in the comic for a character to change more or less completely.

[zornwil]

Re: Character Building Issues Midgame

 

I would certainly allow the player to make changes, though as AgentX and I think others mentioned or at least implied it would be good to sit down and go through it with him.

[Blue]

Re: Character Building Issues Midgame

 

There's a famous and oft repeated phrase in our gameing group: KNOW YOUR CHARACTER! That's really meant more as a "if you have paid for the power you should know what it does" kind of thing. But the phrase persists after all these years because it still happens! We still get into games where we think a power does one thing and the GM points out it does another.

 

What Supersquirrel pointed out is a fine example. In those cases we definitely allow a reworking, within existing point limits. After all, the character would get trounced and where would the fun be for the player?

[Mentor]

Re: Character Building Issues Midgame

 

There's a famous and oft repeated phrase in our gameing group: KNOW YOUR CHARACTER! That's really meant more as a "if you have paid for the power you should know what it does" kind of thing. But the phrase persists after all these years because it still happens! We still get into games where we think a power does one thing and the GM points out it does another.

 

What Supersquirrel pointed out is a fine example. In those cases we definitely allow a reworking, within existing point limits. After all, the character would get trounced and where would the fun be for the player?

Good for you, Blue. We do need to all remnd ourselves that the point of the whole gaming exercise is fun.

[Magmarock]

Re: Character Building Issues Midgame

 

For the most part, I am in full agreement with everyone on this thread. in fact, our newest Player needs to rework his PC after a danger room fight revealed that his powers didn't work as he'd expected them too.

 

Part of what I said in my last post reflects from having one individual in a previous gaming group who, after either seeing someone else's PC do something super-cool or after conceiving a new power idea, would constantly rebuild his PC.... sometimes as frequently as between each session. The GM was his buddy and so, let him. A lot of the new powers stole thunder from one or more of the other PCs. Needless to say, the current group does not miss this Player one iota.

 

In the distant past, when we were all advancing from bash-mode to regular campaigns, there was another Player who would revise his defenses every single time his PC was knocked out in a fight. He didn't understand that sometimes this happens to a PC. You learn from it and play smarter next time, not rebuild your PC's defenses so that your PC is nigh-invulnerable. Eventually, his PC had every defense in the book, and almost nothing could hurt him.

 

We came up with house rules to nip this in the bud for future games, like no PC is allowed to buy every defense in the book, and especially Mental Def needs to be well-defined by character concept. Another is not an actual house rule, but we all know when buying a new defenses with XPs that there better be a damn good reason. There are somethings that aren't out-right forbidden but merely frowned upon.

 

Mags