Question for you all

[Wolven]

I have a character that I am trying to design. When he is damaged he does not take the damage, but he looks like he has taken the damage. I want the bad guys to think that he cant die. How would you do the power set up for this? I have it set up as absorption at this point. I have part of the absorption go to negative COM. Is their an easier/cheaper way to do this? The character is not all that powerful. I want him to be able to get slaped around alot and not get hurt, but to appear like he is bleeding, has broken bones, missing teeth, etc. Would it be easier/cheaper to take Images with a few sense groups, and make it 0 end cost with some limitations such as only when hit, etc?

 

How would you guys write this up?

 

Thanks.

[TheEmerged]

Re: Question for you all

 

The first question to ask is never "is it cheaper?" The question to ask is, "what does this power really do, mechanic-wise?" This is known as reasoning from effect.

 

What you are basically building is a power that fools the opponent. In those cases the "go to" powers are Mental Illusion, Images, and Shape Shift. Since this is not dependent on the subject's EGO I'd say you're looking at Images or Shape Shift.

 

Since it applies only to the character and seems to only affect the Sight group, I'd say your best bet is Shape Shift. That may sound weird but remember that unless you buy it to affect the Touch group the shape doesn't actually change -- only its appearance to the sense(s) it is bought for.

 

If you're new to HERO, it's important for you to remember that Absorption does not reduce the damage the character takes. You need to buy seperate defenses. Of course you may already know that, I'm just making sure.

 

Negative COM is really something different than looking injured. In fact Negative COM can be an advantage if used to promote fear or hatred.

[SleepyDrug]

Re: Question for you all

 

TheEmerged is right about absorption not defending. Get the appropriate defenses.

 

A third option is uncontrolled shape shift with zero end cost

[McCoy]

Re: Question for you all

 

High defenses, all defenses bought with the advantage invisible power effect, invisible to all senses, power effect invisible (a +2 advantage if I've done the math right).

 

This would make it look like every pip of STUN and BODY were geting through. "Just a flesh wound!"

[Wolven]

Re: Question for you all

 

Thats for the ideas. I do have some Def on the character that are linked to the amount rolled on the absorption totals. I like the idea of the invisible power effects. I am going to try to toss that in and get rid of the neg com thing. At this point I have the absorption going to neg COM and to PD or ED. Some great ideas!

[loraxxx]

Re: Question for you all

 

IIRC the write up for DAMAGE REDUCTION describes it as a power to simulate those heroes that 'take a licking, and keep on ticking...."

 

if the character takes a lot of physical abuse, but isn't really hurt, then try 75% resistant DR+a lot of resistant PD/ED, or maybe even just healing/regen--remember you can define "looks more beat up than actually is" as a special effect of the power.....

[Warp9]

Re: Question for you all

 

High defenses' date=' all defenses bought with the advantage [i']invisible power effect[/i], invisible to all senses, power effect invisible (a +2 advantage if I've done the math right).

 

This would make it look like every pip of STUN and BODY were geting through. "Just a flesh wound!"

 

I see what you are saying here, but I'd go with a different take.

 

The special effects of the defense of various characters will work differently. One character may have "steel-skin" that will bounce bullets off, a character such as the Blob may seem to absorb the bullets. A character with the talent "Combat Luck" may seem to dodge the attack (which is also a type of "invisible defense"). I could see it as just being a special effect that the character "seems to take the damage."

 

Second I believe that the rules probably back me up on this point of view(from page 69 of FREd): "Powers which inherently cost no END do not automatically have visible effects." Thus the advantage is unnecessary in this case. The previous statement is made assuming the power is bought as "armor," armor normally does not cost END.

 

Finally, I'm not sure that it is always possible to tell exactly how much damage got through the defenses anyway. If you want to fake a specific state: death, unconsciouness, being stunned, etc. . . that might cost you. IMO what we are talking about here is just not worth a +2 advantage.

 

I'd call it a simple "special effect" on the way the defenses work and be done with it --- Extra Cost = zero. But again that is just my $.02, ymmv.

[Warp9]

Re: Question for you all

 

remember you can define "looks more beat up than actually is" as a special effect of the power.....

 

That is pretty much my take on this whole issue.

[Magmarock]

Re: Question for you all

 

High defenses' date=' all defenses bought with the advantage [i']invisible power effect[/i], invisible to all senses, power effect invisible (a +2 advantage if I've done the math right).

 

This would make it look like every pip of STUN and BODY were geting through. "Just a flesh wound!"

 

And don't forget to take the handy-dandy talent Simulate Death "This Talent allows a character to slow his metabolism down to the point where he appears completely dead (although a thorough medical investigation would reveal signs of life)."

 

Because if someone is going to put that much lead into him, if the he is still moving around, they are going to continue putting even more lead into him until he stops moving...

 

Mags

[Blue]

Re: Question for you all

 

For fun, if you want an "active" component to this ability, you can make the Invisible Power Effect advantage with an RSR: Acting Roll. The guy has to at least try and pretend he's been injured.

 

I know I thought about this once but I don't think I ever actually implemented it on a character.

[Maccabe]

Ouch, that hurt.

 

At first glance I would have said IMAGES [set Effect:beaten to a PULP] linked to force field or such , but that shows you can be hurt.

If you really wanted to make people to think you can't be killed DO THE REVERSE. IMAGES:[ Set Effect; Not a scratch on him, didn't break a sweat, etc.]

Of course Acting will help ALOT, as will a HIGH CON & BODY score.

How about Ego Attack/Mind Control (Fear)? "HE JUST WON"T DIE!!!"

Example: Villians see their 20d6 RKA bounce off you (Images) and become

frightened, perhaps even faint from fear.

[Wolven]

Re: Question for you all

 

Ok. I decided to go with the shapeshift route. here is how I wrote it up.

 

19 Shape Shift (Sight, Smell/Taste and Touch Groups), Instant Change, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (42 Active Points); Always On (-1/2), Affects Body Only (-1/2), Conditional Power Power only works if an attack makes contact (-1/4)

 

How does that look? Am I able to have both Persistent and Always on in the same power? Or is that a no no.

 

This is mainly for special effects. The character is a low level brick. He took the professional wrestling martial arts from the ultimate martial arts book for his attacks. I kept the absorption on him and at this point I have it going to his PD and ED... 6d6 for each. This is also persistant.

 

Heck. Let me try to post him here from Hero Designer

 

BioHazard

 

Val	Char	Cost
20/30	STR	10
10	DEX	0
40	CON	60
15	BODY	10
10	INT	0
15	EGO	10
15	PRE	5
10	COM	0
4/30	PD	0
8/30	ED	0
5	SPD	30
12	REC	0
30	END	-25
63	STUN	18

6" RUN02" SWIM04"/6" LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 118

 

Cost	Power	END
	Energy Absorption
45	1) Energy Absorption: Absorption 6d6 (energy, ED), Persistent (+1/2) (45 Active Points)	0
15	2) +22 ED, Hardened (+1/4) (27 Active Points); Limited Power Only Up To Amount Rolled By Absorption (-1/2), Linked (Energy Absorption; -1/2), Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time (+1/4)
1	3) Damage Resistance (5 ED) (2 Active Points); Conditional Power Only Up To Amount Rolled By Absorption (-1/2), Linked (Energy Absorption; -1/2), Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time (+1/4)	0
	Physical Absorption
45	1) Physical Absorption: Absorption 6d6 (physical, PD), Persistent (+1/2) (45 Active Points)	0
18	2) +26 PD, Hardened (+1/4) (32 Active Points); Limited Power Only Up To the Amount Rolled By Absorption (-1/2), Linked (Physical Absorption; -1/2), Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time (+1/4)
1	3) Damage Resistance (5 PD) (2 Active Points); Limited Power Only Up To Amount Rolled by Absorption (-1/2), Linked (Physical Absorption; -1/2), Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time (+1/4)	0
19	Cant Hurt me!: Shape Shift (Sight, Smell/Taste and Touch Groups), Instant Change, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (42 Active Points); Always On (-1/2), Affects Body Only (-1/2), Conditional Power Power only works if an attack makes contact (-1/4)	0
11	Regeneration: Healing 1d6, Can Heal Limbs, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (30 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), -1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2) [Notes: No Healing Max (see FREd p. 120).]	0
7	Mental Def: MD (10 points total)	0
6	Anger Management: +10 STR (10 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Limited Power Only When Enraged (-1/4)	1

Powers Cost: 168

 

Cost	Martial Arts Maneuver
	Professional Wrestling
5	1) Stomp: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, 8d6 / 10d6 Strike [Notes: STR +4d6]
4	2) Crush: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, 8d6 / 10d6 Crush, Must Follow Grab [Notes: STR +4d6]
4	3) Duck: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort
4	4) Fist/Forearm Smash: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +0 DCV, 6d6 / 8d6 Strike [Notes: STR +2d6]
4	5) Head-Bash: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +0 DCV, 6d6 / 8d6 Strike [Notes: STR +2d6]
3	6) Body Slam: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +1 DCV, 4d6 / 6d6 Strike; You Fall, Target Falls [Notes: STR]
3	7) Grab: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab two limbs, +10 to STR for holding on

Martial Arts Cost: 27

 

Cost	Skill
21	+7 with professional wrestling maneuvers
3	KS: Professional Wrestling 11-
3	Acrobatics 11-
3	Acting 12-
3	Teamwork 11-
3	Breakfall 11-
1	KS: Sports 8-
0	WF: Clubs
	Everyman Skills
0	1) CK: San Angelo 8-
0	2) Climbing 8-
0	3) Concealment 8-
0	4) Conversation 8-
0	5) Deduction 8-
0	6) Language: English (Idiomatic, native accent; Custom Adder) [Notes: Native Language]
0	7) Persuasion 8-
0	8) Shadowing 8-
0	9) Stealth 8-
0	10) TF:Car: Custom Adder, Small Motorized Ground Vehicles [Notes: Custom Mod is Everyman Skill]
0	11) PS: Wrestling 8-

Skills Cost: 37

 

 

 

 

Total Character Cost: 350

 

Val	Disadvantages
20	Code vs Killing: (Common, Total)
20	Vulnerability: 2 x BODY Heat attacks (Common)
15	Overconfidence: (Very Common, Moderate)
15	Social Limitation: Public Identity Frequently (11-), Major
10	Enraged: When attacked (Common), go 8-, recover 14-
10	Loves to fight: (Common, Moderate)
10	Money: Destitute
10	DNPC: Girlfriend: Fiona Connelly 8- (Normal)
10	Soc. Lim.: My Fans (Occasionally (8-), Major
5	Reputation: Loves to fight, 8-
5	Unluck: 1d6
5	Hunted: Lassiter 11- (As Pow, NCI, Limited Geographical Area, Watching)
5	Rivalry: Professional, Matt Johnson, Rival is As Powerful, Seek to Outdo, Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival, Rival Aware of Rivalry
5	Minor Age 17
5	Tatoo of Dragon on my back: (Easily Concealed; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)

Disadvantage Points: 150

 

Base Points: 200

Experience Required: 0

Total Experience Available: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

[Chiba Bob]

Re: Question for you all

 

Sounds more like Damage Reduction with a -0 Limitation Side Effect. The Side Effect being 1d6 Cosmetic Transform (looks beaten to death), Partial Transform, whenever hit by and attack that does BODY. This is more of a special effect of the power and should not have a +/- modifier.

[pinecone]

Re: Question for you all

 

One way to look like you got wupped is to actually take the damage...maybe Absorb into Body and Stun (+1/2) I used Body IPE once to simulate some one who appeared to be near death, yet acted fine (lost base body, so looks like at zero or less, invisable body kept him alive) I'd also consider using IPE on Armor to add the feature that you are hiding the effect (and thus appear to take the damage, rather than stop it) Armor as a no End power is not visable, but hiding the effect Might call for more.....

[Eyendasky80]

Re: Question for you all

 

I read about this campaign based in London while I was googling around for HERO stuff and there was a character with this exact special effect that sounded great. He really stood out in my mind, I loved the visual. He was called Avenger and (luckily because he was the only one) his sheet was posted on the site. So he gets shot and bleeds and stuff, it scares the crap out of his opponents, and he keeps on coming. High recovery, regen and a presence boost only when he takes body to simulate him scaring the beejeezus out of people. I'd throw in some damage reduction as well and avoid resistant defense. Allendral did a great write up of Wolverine with basically the same powers except no linked Pre boost. I'd say this would be a simple way to have that "bits are being blown off him and he looks half dead BUT HE'S STILL COMING!!!!!!!" effect.

[Vorsch]

Re: Question for you all

 

So shapeshift touch actually changes your form but you have to buy it vs sight anyway to see the change? weird

[TheEmerged]

Re: Question for you all

 

So shapeshift touch actually changes your form but you have to buy it vs sight anyway to see the change? weird

 

That's one way to look at it. Another would be that this might be a mechanic for the "Plastic Man effect" -- changing shape but having to stick to recognizable color scheme.

 

It also allows for some... bold new possibilities. Like using Shapeshift to the Mental group to confuse Telepathy. Or Shapeshift vs "mutant detection" to fool mutant detectors into thinking you're a baseline.

 

I stand behind my statement that I feel the 5th Edition's change to Shape Shift is an improvement, since all the power really does is fool senses anyway. However I do believe there should be a base cost for fooling the "appropriate senses" (sight group, touch group, radar, and sonar) for 20pts.