Weak Supers who just needed better writers

[Chuckg]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

They did what to Rahne?

 

*takes voodoo dolls of X-editors, spikes them to wall with nail gun*

 

*... by the crotch*

[Lightray]

Perhaps "slut" was too much my interpretation. To be clear: She drove a motorcycle, she was edgy, and she got into fights. They had her show up wearing what looked like a Catholic schoolgirl outfit, with big hair and even bigger bazooms. She was flirting with -- or maybe trying to seduce -- one of the students, who seem to be in the high school age range.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

Cypher just didn't have the personalit for leadership. People liked him, even loved him, but they didn't instinctively follow him, for whatever reason.

 

We all know people like that. Personally, I think it could be an interesting story. Instead of someone with few or no powers being a great leader, how about the other way around. Someone with Superman-level powers who feels an obligation to try to be a great leader because of the powers, but who just isn't up to the task. Not because of some great tragic flaw or lack of intelligence or wisdom. But just because he or she doesn't have the spark of leadership.

 

Or maybe it would be pretty boring to read about that.

You mean like Titan from Worlds Finest Comics?

 

Here's someone's MSH interpretation of him (the picture they used is rather poor however):

 

http://rivendell.fortunecity.com/battlespire/85/gcity.htm

 

Here are some better pics of Titan:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Basically he was the Superman parrallel of his comics setting, Dark Horses "worlds finest comics" line. But terribly flawed, mentally, and not well liked by other "supers".

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

Okay I just have to ask.. (because I have just been enjoying this thread so much)

 

Does anyone else believe that Forge is just dripping with untapped potential. I mean you have a mutant who can invent anything that he has a need for. It takes time but he will solve the problem.

 

I mean that is a scary "Plot Device" power especially when you combine it with the tech he has had available to him for many years.

 

Any thoughts?

I dont know what they did with Forge later on, but yeah. He was on my list of "Mutants with absurdly powerful but never explored potential", along with Madison Jefferies and Cypher and a few others I cant recall off the top of my head.

[Brandi]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

An animal-mimic might do well to study the waterbear.

[GTAgamemaster]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

~ahem~ (psst gamemaster I am holding a half phase action for a dodge)

 

Uhm whatever happened to Speedball?

[casualplayer]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

There are two time periods in New Mutants history: pre-Bird Boy and post-Bird Boy. I don't like to talk about post Bird Boy. How someone who had so much fun with Power Pack could fubar the X-Babies so badly is beyond me.

 

Lets not forget Doug's most impressive power, the ability to get his groove on with tasty purple-haired British mutants. Before Psylocke turned Japanese, turned Japanese I really think so she was warm for his form. As Dani said "Doug, you sly, sneaky devil," when she found Elizabeth Braddock and Doug in a room together with only one pair of pants between them, and Doug had those!

 

Doug is still alive somewhere though. He is either deep within the NSA's headquarters breaking 10 codes before breakfast or he's residing in Limbo with the true Illyana and reigning over Sym City. He was infected with the Techno-Virus meaning he can't really be killed just in need of a jumpstart.

 

Rahne is not so much a slut in the new X Academy book as a Grrrl! She is very Rebel without a Collar right now and was actually turned down to become an instructor at the school.

 

It's amazing what the right writer can do and amazing the havoc the wrong one can wreak. Grant Morrison comes in and revitalizes the entire X World, Warren Ellis takes Gen X and runs with it, Mark Millar arrives and turns Extreme Xmen into terrorists that need to be exterminated (no, not just Magneto's pack of bastards.)

 

I love the bow heroes, Hawkeye and Green Arrow, but Fabian Nicienza is writing Nomad-with-a-bow and Judd Winick is just not firing on all cylinders. Who wants to follow Kevin Smith and Brad Meltzer anyway?

 

Speaking of sluts, I would like to see someone do something worthwhile with Power Girl. I mean she used to be Earth 2's Supergirl, on a par with Superman for power and drive. Now she's a hysterical decoration for the JSA. Kinda strange to mention her in a weak hero thread but she is being squandered and it ticks me off.

[Lightray]

Speaking of sluts' date=' I would like to see someone do something worthwhile with Power Girl. I mean she used to be Earth 2's Supergirl, on a par with Superman for power and drive. Now she's a hysterical decoration for the JSA. Kinda strange to mention her in a weak hero thread but she is being squandered and it ticks me off.[/quote']

Of all comics right now -- even the LSH -- I'll put my faith in JSA any day. They've become the continuity clearinghouse of DC, and their storylines are always interesting. They've managed to almost untangle Lyta Hall/Fury and Hector Hall/Silver Scarab/Dr. Fate -- encorporating Daniel/Morpheus! -- and Power Girl is definately coming up on their agenda.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

Cypher just didn't have the personalit for leadership. People liked him, even loved him, but they didn't instinctively follow him, for whatever reason.

I think I didn't get my point across well. Storm was on the X-Men and she was more or less holding her own despite the fact that she had less power than Cypher did, at least in theory. On sheer skill she was holding her own on the team. Cypher was treated as a wimp for having a weak power, but no one seemed to think Storm was weak with even less power. There was in a way a double standard here.

[casualplayer]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

Ah, I love forums. Did I dig on the JSA at all? Nope, just disappointed that the guy who's doing such a good job with everyone else on the team gutted the tenuous fragments of history that Power Girl had and left her a fanboytoy. I blame Gerard Jones for a lot of this because he had her go through the depowering surgery and the Diet Coke lunacy, but I don't think I'm out of line for expecting more character from a self-made millionairess that created a software company from scratch and got out before the bubble burst.

 

Chuck Dixon did good things with her in Birds of Prey and I enjoyed her guest appearances in Will Payton/Starman written by Roger Stern.

[Lightray]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

Ah' date=' I love forums. Did I dig on the JSA at all? Nope, just disappointed that the guy who's doing such a good job with everyone else on the team gutted the tenuous fragments of history that Power Girl had and left her a fanboytoy.[/quote']

Didn't mean to imply you had, but I DID mean to say that I have faith this will all be rectified. Frankly, I was never much enamoured of the "grandaughter of Arion of Gemworld" backstory.

 

But, back to the topic at hand. While I agree that the character is being wasted, I'm not so sure that the character's powers are being wasted. She's got, what? Super-Strength, Flight, Invulnerability. Maybe a little super speed. Can't recall if she has super-vision powers.

 

Although she had a mystic origin, apparently that's now "biological". Her flight may be "unconscious gravity manipulation", and Dr. Midnight couldn't pick up any electrical impulses of brainwave or cardiac activity. And there's something strange going on in her body on the "quantum level".

 

So, anybody have any ideas on Power Girl? Or maybe want to "fix" her over in Enforcer84's Fix the Weaklings! thread?

[Metaphysician]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

I assure you that nuclear reactions are, in fact, chemical reactions. Fission (and fusion, for that matter) are relatively simple reactions when you look at what's going on. In fact, the reaction is often favored, because it's producing a more stable isotope. Granted, the energy necessary to catalyze the reaction is quite high (fortunately), and the conditions necessary to sustain it are not common.

 

Biological activity is also a chemical reaction. Lots and lots of things non-chemists don't think are chemical reactions in fact ARE. That was kind of the problem with Chemical King -- the writers didn't understand what was and wasn't chemistry. Even then the writers weren't very consistent -- even in his last issue Chemical King was affecting some kind of energy force field globe around [bad Guy Whose Name I've Forgotten].

 

But I'll grant you that we didn't know the extent of his powers.

 

 

No, nuclear reactions are *not* chemical reactions. Chemical reactions can alter and changes compounds, but the elements composing them remain the same. Nuclear reactions change the actual elements in question.

[Lightray]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

No' date=' nuclear reactions are *not* chemical reactions. Chemical reactions can alter and changes compounds, but the elements composing them remain the same. Nuclear reactions change the actual elements in question.[/quote']

This is splitting hairs along with atoms. But I can tell you as a chemist (and as an engineer) that not only are nuclear reactions taught in chemistry courses, but that they follow the same basic rules of reaction, and are worked with by the same kinds of scientists -- just ones with slightly different specializations.

 

Distinguishing between "compounds" and "elements" is not meaningful -- you're never working with one elemental atom, it's an elemental compound.

 

For example, the initiator reaction for Oppenheimer's bomb (after a moment's Googling):

 

4He2 + 9Be4 --> 12C6 + 1n0

 

(where the number before the He, Be, C, or n should be superscript, the number after subscript; that's a molecule of 6 atoms of Carbon 12) (the n is the neutron)

 

That is definately a chemical reaction. The protons, electrons, and neutrons just aren't staying in the neat packages we usually get to deal with them in. But you're starting out with some chemical compounds, and you're ending up with other chemical compounds. Basis of all chemistry.

 

Another clue? They're nuclear reactions and the field of study is nuclear chemistry. (whereas I'm in organic chemistry, dealing with organic reactions)

[Zeropoint]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

My understanding, having taken both chemistry and physics classes in college, is that "chemical reaction" is reserved for a reaction involving electrons and electron shells, and "nuclear reaction" ("Nuclear, adj. Of or relating to atomic nuclei) is used for a reaction involving a nucleus/nuclei.

 

Zeropoint

[Metaphysician]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

This is splitting hairs along with atoms. But I can tell you as a chemist (and as an engineer) that not only are nuclear reactions taught in chemistry courses, but that they follow the same basic rules of reaction, and are worked with by the same kinds of scientists -- just ones with slightly different specializations.

 

Distinguishing between "compounds" and "elements" is not meaningful -- you're never working with one elemental atom, it's an elemental compound.

 

For example, the initiator reaction for Oppenheimer's bomb (after a moment's Googling):

 

4He2 + 9Be4 --> 12C6 + 1n0

 

(where the number before the He, Be, C, or n should be superscript, the number after subscript; that's a molecule of 6 atoms of Carbon 12) (the n is the neutron)

 

That is definately a chemical reaction. The protons, electrons, and neutrons just aren't staying in the neat packages we usually get to deal with them in. But you're starting out with some chemical compounds, and you're ending up with other chemical compounds. Basis of all chemistry.

 

Another clue? They're nuclear reactions and the field of study is nuclear chemistry. (whereas I'm in organic chemistry, dealing with organic reactions)

 

. . .I hope I never have the misfortune of being taught by *your* professors. "Not staying in their neat little packages" is the WHOLE FRICKIN' DEFINITION OF A NUCLEAR REACTION!!

 

This, btw, would be why lesser sciences should not attempt to teach physics. . . . *bangs head*

[Lightray]

*sigh* The point of this -- aside from us dickwaving to show how big our technical packages are -- is that nuclear reactions are part of nuclear chemistry which certainly falls under Chemical King's power to control chemical reactions. It certainly passes the criteria for the FREAKIN' RUBBER SCIENCE used in comic books.

 

There have been far less plausible explanations used to stretch a superhero's powers than this.

 

Anyway, back to the dickwaving. Nuclear chemistry is a subset of chemistry, wherein you need to use the basics of chemical reactions -- and account for the differences of dealing with nuclear particles. All of the basics -- balancing reactants, reaction rates, catalyzation, what have you -- are taught in Chemistry courses.

 

 

edit: boy, that's a mean looking little smiley. let's try another...

[Whitewings]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

Let's try it this way: Nuclear reactions involve the strong and weak nuclear forces. Chemical reactions involve the electric force. Chemical King's powers work via the electric force. Thus, he cannot influence strong or weak force reactions. Does anyone have a problem with that notion?

 

Oh, and in one of his first appearances, he caused a villain's gun to catch fire by increasing the rate of oxidation on its surface.

[Hermit]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

Just a request, can we keep the profanity down a tad?

[freakboy6117]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

well i just gpot issue 3 of new xmen acadamy x and rahne has just broken of the relationship reluctantly but according to that shes only 19 (i guess time moves diffrently in the marvelverse) so a realtionship witha 16 year old isn't that big a deal.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

Time has to move differently in any comics universe ... otherwise, Peter Parker would be the geriatric Spider Man and the the Golden Age Green Lantern would have to make his ring into an emerald walker

[Toonol]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

There are two time periods in New Mutants history: pre-Bird Boy and post-Bird Boy. I don't like to talk about post Bird Boy. How someone who had so much fun with Power Pack could fubar the X-Babies so badly is beyond me.

 

...

 

Doug is still alive somewhere though. He is either deep within the NSA's headquarters breaking 10 codes before breakfast or he's residing in Limbo with the true Illyana and reigning over Sym City. He was infected with the Techno-Virus meaning he can't really be killed just in need of a jumpstart.

 

I know I'm jumping on late, but casualplayer, well, he spoke to my heart, and I've got not choice here but to throw out a rant.

 

In the space of a year or two, the mess that Marvel made of the New Mutants not only turned me off of that book, but led me to quit collecting comics for nearly two decades. I am only just now tentatively sampling their wares again.

 

Doug, Illyana Rasputin, and Warlock... my three favorite characters in any comic book when I was younger. Geez, I felt personally attacked.

 

And in respect to Doug Ramsey, I have to point out that he represents one of the ways in which fiction is very different than RPGs. Doug would never have worked in a champions game for a number of reasons, but he worked very well in the comic. Claremont could have min-maxed him more to justify making him a martial artist, or some such, but that would have ruined the main hook the character had.

 

The hook was that he was fundamentally just a normal, decent, kid, who was immensely out of his depth in all this superhero business... and yet, just through being clever and having a good heart, was able (somehow) to hold his own. He really is one of the most unique characters I have ever encountered in comics.

 

I normally avoid reading fan-fic like the plague, but I once came across a story about Doug that was tongue-in-cheek and yet oddly touching. It was about Doug, hanging out in the afterlife, and how the powers-that-be (realizing that nobody is supposed to stay dead in marvel comics) eventually offered him the chance to come back. Initially, Doug lept at the chance, but when the current state of the Marvel Universe was described to him, and he saw how none of his friends were left in any state he could recognize, he decided to stay dead.

 

He always was the smart one :-)

 

Toonol

[Zaratustra]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

Time has to move differently in any comics universe ... otherwise' date=' Peter Parker would be the geriatric Spider Man and the the Golden Age Green Lantern would have to make his ring into an emerald walker [/quote']

 

Alan Scott is immortal, silly. Of the powerup revision cake, he got the largest slice.

[ShinDangaioh]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

Time has to move differently in any comics universe ... otherwise' date=' Peter Parker would be the geriatric Spider Man and the the Golden Age Green Lantern would have to make his ring into an emerald walker [/quote']

The Starheart youthend Alan Scott. If someone did a test on his phyisical age, he'd show up younger than Jade, his daughter. Before that, he was stuck in a limbo for several years.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Weak Supers who just needed better writers

 

I know I'm jumping on late, but casualplayer, well, he spoke to my heart, and I've got not choice here but to throw out a rant.

 

In the space of a year or two, the mess that Marvel made of the New Mutants not only turned me off of that book, but led me to quit collecting comics for nearly two decades. I am only just now tentatively sampling their wares again.

 

Doug, Illyana Rasputin, and Warlock... my three favorite characters in any comic book when I was younger. Geez, I felt personally attacked.

 

And in respect to Doug Ramsey, I have to point out that he represents one of the ways in which fiction is very different than RPGs. Doug would never have worked in a champions game for a number of reasons, but he worked very well in the comic. Claremont could have min-maxed him more to justify making him a martial artist, or some such, but that would have ruined the main hook the character had.

 

The hook was that he was fundamentally just a normal, decent, kid, who was immensely out of his depth in all this superhero business... and yet, just through being clever and having a good heart, was able (somehow) to hold his own. He really is one of the most unique characters I have ever encountered in comics.

 

I normally avoid reading fan-fic like the plague, but I once came across a story about Doug that was tongue-in-cheek and yet oddly touching. It was about Doug, hanging out in the afterlife, and how the powers-that-be (realizing that nobody is supposed to stay dead in marvel comics) eventually offered him the chance to come back. Initially, Doug lept at the chance, but when the current state of the Marvel Universe was described to him, and he saw how none of his friends were left in any state he could recognize, he decided to stay dead.

 

He always was the smart one :-)

 

Toonol

'Course, they forced him back in the form of Douglock so...