Independant Powers

[SuperBlue]

If I were to give the more magically inclined villains in my Champions campaign Independant powers, and the PC's took them away... would the PC who wanted to keep said item have to pay points for it?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Independant Powers

 

That's entirely up to the GM, but I would be inclined to force the character to pay points for it over time if the character continued to use it.

 

If you simply planned on removing it from them later somehow, I wouldn't make them pay points. They get a fun toy for a short period and then poof, all gone.

[schir1964]

Re: Independant Powers

 

That's entirely up to the GM, but I would be inclined to force the character to pay points for it over time if the character continued to use it.

 

If you simply planned on removing it from them later somehow, I wouldn't make them pay points. They get a fun toy for a short period and then poof, all gone.

Ditto.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Independant Powers

 

Isn't part of the Independent limitation? Anyone who picks it up can use it and keep it, much like a D&D magic item. Mysto the Magnifivcent paid the points for his magic wand, but he can't use it because it was taken by SuperSleuth. They're still Mysto's character points, so SuperSleuth doesn't have to spend character points.

 

I'd still be reluctant to let Supersleuth have those free abilities, but I'd get around that by not making the power independent.

 

Another possibility: maybe the item has some kind of material component (Expendable focus to activate it for some period of time) so it stops working after a while. SuperSleuth could bathe it in chicken's blood for the night of the full moon and reactivate it, but he doesn't know that's how he should reactivate it. Now it's just a snazzy trophy until Mysto (or someone else) steals it back and reactivates it.

[Kirby]

Re: Independant Powers

 

If I were to give the more magically inclined villains in my Champions campaign Independant powers' date=' and the PC's took them away... would the PC who wanted to keep said item have to pay points for it?[/quote']

No, at least not if you're following rules for the Independant limitation. Your villain received the weapon cheaper by buying it as such. Now it's bye-bye for him; the required points have been paid.

 

Having said that, you may want to also look into ways and means for your PCs to not want to use them. In the last to HERO games I was in (DC & Champions), we as the PCs never* [one exception which I'll explain below] used weapons we took from them.

 

Generally, if a focus (weapon, mask etc.)was removed from the villain that we believed was too powerful to be left with the villain when the authorities arrived (in other words, something that would help the villain escape prison, or aid if the item were conveniently stolen at a prison), we would take such item and place it in our "vault." The GM would have some "residence of identity" left with some focuses. For example, we beat a recurring villain in a DC game named Headsman, Executionor, Axeman or something like that. The last time we beat him, we removed his double-edged battle axe and his mask (the latter our characters had been informed boosted the villain's strength [which game mechanics included pd/ed CON & resistance pd/ed as well]). When we removed them, whoever held the mask felt/heard a "calling" to put the mask on and kill. In our vault, both items were displayed, but were encased so no one could accidentally touch either. Maybe something like that would help if you're worried about it. Maybe adding some limitations to the magical item.

 

*Now, for the exception: I was running a character named Caliber who used two pistols with rubber bullets. After our group had watched "Judge Dredd," the GM thought Caliber needed a weapon like that and asked me what I thought. I said sure and we went about on how to make it. The next gaming adventure we went on was one with Terminator style robots** (three) from the future travelling back in time to kill a mutant who had gone through time as well. Half of our group met up with them, battled and were victorious. My character picked up one of their pistols (the only to survive) and started using it - the GM never made me pay points for it. With the character points I had spent on my regular pistols I was allowed to convert those into my "new" pistol, which had settings (powers) of my own choosing. The big drawback was that I took a limitation about it being difficult to create new ammo (took a lot of time). At first, I was allowed to carry both pistols. After a while, we weaned my character off of the unknown pistol and I carried the one I paid/exchanged points for. For a while, when one pistol ran out of ammo, I'd leave it at the base (for the down time of creating new ammo) and carry the other pistol. I eventually spent points on eliminating the ammo duration time and only used the alien pistol during big events, such as crossovers, or Dr. Destroyer/end of the world type adventures.

 

**The robots were just like the Arnold Schwarzenegger terminators, except that they were capable of wearing clothes and bringing weapons back with them. Their clothes were all business suits with stylized sunglasses. As for their pistols, they had about eight to ten settings (I don't recall anymore) and the one I recovered had one that was permanently disabled, two that I never figured out how to unlock/activate during the game and the rest I could use.

[SleepyDrug]

Re: Independant Powers

 

As I understand it...Independent was designed for Heroic Level campaigns. If you have a concern about this, remove the Independent limit. They're villains...they don't need to worry about point cost.

[Vanguard00]

Re: Independant Powers

 

That's entirely up to the GM, but I would be inclined to force the character to pay points for it over time if the character continued to use it.

 

If you simply planned on removing it from them later somehow, I wouldn't make them pay points. They get a fun toy for a short period and then poof, all gone.

 

 

Pretty much how I'd do it. The villain will come back lookin' to reclaim his toy (and have a reasonable chance of succeeding). Someone else could take it away from the hero. Some good guy agency shows up and wants the item for evidence in a trial, or maybe just to study. Some bad guy agency shows up and just plain wants the item.

 

The PC might get to play with it a bit, but I'd have them lose it shortly thereafter.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Independant Powers

 

I don't use the Independent Limitation in Superheroic games (or any campaign that pays points for all equipment), so it would never be an issue for me.

 

Of course, because the points don't play the game, there's always those times when the heroes capture something and want to keep it. In that case, I find some reason for them not to want to. Most magical items are then cursed (were only used by the villain because they were evil anyway), technicogical items have tracking devices to let the agency that built them keep track of the heroes, and other various methods of making the PCs rid themselves of whatever loot they've taken. My favorite and default method is to just give the character enough Unluck to make up for the real cost of the item. After a while, they'll have more than enough reason to ditch it someplace.

 

Ultimately, if any player in my group is using something they haven't paid points for that isn't a plot device, something bad will happen to them.

[SuperBlue]

Re: Independant Powers

 

Well the main reason I asked is cuz I'm building a Magic Item for a Morbane to use. It's an Infernal Rod (Multipower with OAF, IND, Gest/Incan, and Skill Roll Required). Basically it grants the ability to summon a handful of Lesser Demons, a Single Greater Demon, Project burst of Hellfire, etc.

 

Basically I was planning on setting it up so it's a bit like the Ring of Power - once you start using it you don't want to give it up, and if it's taken from you you'll do anything to get it back.

[Kirby]

Re: Independant Powers

 

Basically I was planning on setting it up so it's a bit like the Ring of Power - once you start using it you don't want to give it up' date=' and if it's taken from you you'll do anything to get it back.[/quote']

I like this. To "help pay for points" on this, add some limitations to the item, such as a low mind control or psychological limitations. I've seen it done before and it could work (not that your goal is making the item inexpensive).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Independant Powers

 

I like this. To "help pay for points" on this' date=' add some limitations to the item, such as a low mind control or psychological limitations. I've seen it done before and it could work (not that your goal is making the item inexpensive). [/quote']

 

A Side Effect of Transform or cumulative mind control would work nicely.

[John T]

Re: Independant Powers

 

I don't use the Independent Limitation in Superheroic games (or any campaign that pays points for all equipment)' date=' so it would never be an issue for me.[/quote']

Had one knucklehead try to build a set of power armor this way in my game. I looked at him like he was an idiot, explaining that I wasn't going to "play fair" by NOT eventually having said item stolen or destroyed. (Some people seem to think that, in the interest of fairness, the GM won't cause them to lose, perhaps permanently, the points they invested in the item).

 

Of course, this was also the dingbat who originally tried to put a VPP in an EC, wouldn't believe (until I SHOWED him) that the rules explicitly forbade it, and whined that not being allowed to do so would mean he "couldn't play the character he wanted". me a river. Sheesh!

 

John T

[Dust Raven]

Re: Independant Powers

 

Had one knucklehead try to build a set of power armor this way in my game. I looked at him like he was an idiot, explaining that I wasn't going to "play fair" by NOT eventually having said item stolen or destroyed. (Some people seem to think that, in the interest of fairness, the GM won't cause them to lose, perhaps permanently, the points they invested in the item).

 

Of course, this was also the dingbat who originally tried to put a VPP in an EC, wouldn't believe (until I SHOWED him) that the rules explicitly forbade it, and whined that not being allowed to do so would mean he "couldn't play the character he wanted". me a river. Sheesh!

 

John T

Heh. I would consider "fair play" to be systematically robbing/breaking a character's foci. They got a bonus for a reason. Making it independent just means that when I do, I don't have to give it back. It would be unfair to the other players if I did give it back.

[Magmarock]

Re: Independant Powers

 

Well the main reason I asked is cuz I'm building a Magic Item for a Morbane to use. It's an Infernal Rod (Multipower with OAF, IND, Gest/Incan, and Skill Roll Required). Basically it grants the ability to summon a handful of Lesser Demons, a Single Greater Demon, Project burst of Hellfire, etc.

 

Basically I was planning on setting it up so it's a bit like the Ring of Power - once you start using it you don't want to give it up, and if it's taken from you you'll do anything to get it back.

 

 

Give the Infernal Rod a Side-Effect for whenever it is used: it alters the Psychological outlook of its owner, eventually turning them evil. This corruption factor won't affect someone who is already evil (i.e. villains), but in a hero's hands it would be desvestating. You can drop hints to the player that the PC will lose his soul (it becomes a villain controlled by the GM) if he doesn't lose or destroy the artifact.

 

Alternately, you can have the Infernal Rod damage anyone who picks it up that isn't evil. Heroes and normals will take damage from the item from the slightest touch.

 

 

Mags

[GamePhil]

Re: Independant Powers

 

If I were to give the more magically inclined villains in my Champions campaign Independant powers' date=' and the PC's took them away... would the PC who wanted to keep said item have to pay points for it?[/quote']

 

Certainly not, that is part of what Independent means. Normally, you shouldn't use Independant in a Superhero game, but you have come up with one of the exceptions: the item is cursed, but grants powers. The character shouldn't have to pay for a captured item that is going to be more trouble than benefit.

 

Really, you've designed a trap for a power-hungry character.