Power Defence... Ugg

[Guest Kolava]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

I want to play a game' date=' not play "find the rule", so I'm on the other side of the fence on this one.[/quote']

I agree, and I think some of the people arguing for radical Power Defense reforms because it is too broad are losing touch with the way Hero does things. Power Defense, bought naked, is obviously a tough thing to justify (there's a reason the examples in Fred are both narrowed) but that is no reason to change it when it is statistically balanced and consistent. Hero isn't about flipping to any page, pointing at a power and saying "how do I give my character this power"...that's doing it backwards. It's about fleshing out an idea using a set of generic and consistent rules, and Power Defense, with or without modifiers, serves to cover a lot of different concepts; in that respect, how can there be anything wrong with it?

 

To summarize: It's not the fault of the written power if you build an ability which you cannot justify in your game.

[dugfromthearth]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

I just consider any power vs power defense to be an NND and define some defense against it. Basically changing it from an AVLD to an NND.

 

I like the flavor of it better.

[tesuji]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

To summarize: It's not the fault of the written power if you build an ability which you cannot justify in your game.

 

but we are not talking "build" but simply "buy". The power as sweeping as it is, bought at its basic level is not justifiable (to those who have a problem with it.)

 

Its not like we are talking some obscure minmaxing aoe nnd construcxt which proves unjustifiable but mechanically legal and imbalanced...

 

it would seem less than desirable to have a power defined in a way that no one will be allowed to buy it "as is".

[Magmarock]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

But are there that many attacks versus power defense in your games?

 

 

Ah, I misunderstood. Attacks vs Power Def? No. In fact, for some odd reason, no one in my gaming group has bought AVLD (or any attacks that target defenses directly for that matter) in as long as I can remember. Why, I don't know. This is a good question to ask them, I suppose.

 

We game again this Saturday, so I will find out then. My guess is because it's all too complicated, but really, I haven't a clue. I'll let you know.

 

 

 

I've seen players come and go who really thought they needed oodles of power defense. I've been pretty blase about it because I don't really throw tons of adjustment attacks anyway.

 

Well, I kinda lumped Metal Def & Flash Def in with Power Def for purposes of my statement regarding non-standard defenses. The villains in our campaign vary with their attacks, as many are straight out of the published books, and I'd say at least 2 out of 3 villains have some odd attack that requires a non-standard defense (hell, that might be 4 out of 5, even).

 

When I build my own PCs, I try to have one of the above defenses, depending on the PC of course, but I don't ever buy all three unless I limit them severely (like for a specific SFX).

 

I just think it's overkill and unnecessary to had every defense in the book. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

 

Mags

 

[EDIT to add an example]

 

I think it's perfectly all right to create a Mentalist who has the following powers:

 

Mental Def

For obvious reasons- to protect against standard Mental attacks

 

Power Def (only vs Mental SFX attacks)

To protect against nasty Mental adjustment powers

 

Flash Def (only vs. Mental SFX attacks)

To protect against those Mental-based flashes

 

These special defenses won't keep all of the Mental SFX powers from working, like the other guy's Invisibility which targets my Mentalist's ECV to see how well it works, but it goes a long way for rounding out a Mentalist's powerset. However, I think that when all the non-standard defenses are bought, they should be limited somewhat to keep the game interesting and fair.

[Agent X]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

Ah, I misunderstood. Attacks vs Power Def? No. In fact, for some odd reason, no one in my gaming group has bought AVLD (or any attacks that target defenses directly for that matter) in as long as I can remember. Why, I don't know. This is a good question to ask them, I suppose.

 

We game again this Saturday, so I will find out then. My guess is because it's all too complicated, but really, I haven't a clue. I'll let you know.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, I kinda lumped Metal Def & Flash Def in with Power Def for purposes of my statement regarding non-standard defenses. The villains in our campaign vary with their attacks, as many are straight out of the published books, and I'd say at least 2 out of 3 villains have some odd attack that requires a non-standard defense (hell, that might be 4 out of 5, even).

 

When I build my own PCs, I try to have one of the above defenses, depending on the PC of course, but I don't ever buy all three unless I limit them severely (like for a specific SFX).

 

I just think it's overkill and unnecessary to had every defense in the book. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

 

Mags

 

[EDIT to add an example]

 

I think it's perfectly all right to create a Mentalist who has the following powers:

 

Mental Def

For obvious reasons- to protect against standard Mental attacks

 

Power Def (only vs Mental SFX attacks)

To protect against nasty Mental adjustment powers

 

Flash Def (only vs. Mental SFX attacks)

To protect against those Mental-based flashes

 

These special defenses won't keep all of the Mental SFX powers from working, like the other guy's Invisibility which targets my Mentalist's ECV to see how well it works, but it goes a long way for rounding out a Mentalist's powerset. However, I think that when all the non-standard defenses are bought, they should be limited somewhat to keep the game interesting and fair.

I understand your concern. I don't like to go there, myself. I try not to have very many hard and fast rules and appraise the character as a whole to see if it will fit in with the campaign.

[Guest Kolava]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

but we are not talking "build" but simply "buy". The power as sweeping as it is, bought at its basic level is not justifiable (to those who have a problem with it.)

 

Its not like we are talking some obscure minmaxing aoe nnd construcxt which proves unjustifiable but mechanically legal and imbalanced...

 

it would seem less than desirable to have a power defined in a way that no one will be allowed to buy it "as is".

Like I said before, you're supposed to have an ability in your head then build it with the rules, not take the rules and find an ability that would fit. If you insist on doing the latter, trying to justify basic Power Defense for example, than you're doing it backwards.

 

It is true that abilities that can be modeled as basic Power Defense are rare, and this can be interpreted as a sign that the power needs fixing, but the fact remains that the power "Power Defense", as written, works fine; there's really no reason to change it--especially since abilities which are modeled as basic Power Defense, although rare, do exist and need to be accounted for.

 

It's up to every GM to decide how Power Defense works in their game, as with all powers. But out of all the things about Hero that would benefit from adjusting, I think Power Defense is pretty low on the list. If players in your group are abusing Power Defense by grabbing it up in large numbers with no limitation, then that is a min-maxing issue, not a problem with the rules. On the list of "abusable features" of Hero, Power Defense is also pretty low.

[TheEmerged]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

RE: Why nobody has ever bought an AVLD attack in your campaign. Because there's little difference between the effectiveness of 6d6 of NND and 6d6 of AVLD, but the AVLD is more expensive. That's one of the reasons I long ago reduced AVLD to +1 and it works better in my opinion.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

Okay, side idea: instead of defining a mechanical defense for NNDs, require each NND to have a fairly well described sfx, with the defense being "Anything that would logically prevent this sfx from working"??

 

Thus, a gas-based NND could be stopped by not needing to breath, or being immune to poison, or having a heavily different metabolism than "normal." An aging-based attack would be stopped by immortality, innate temporal powers, or certain SFX of power defense ( which under this system would be rendered a "resistance to alteration" power ).

[Guest Kolava]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

Okay' date=' side idea: instead of defining a mechanical defense for NNDs, require each NND to have a fairly well described sfx, with the defense being "Anything that would logically prevent this sfx from working"??[/quote']

 

Isn't that how it's already done?

[schir1964]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

Isn't that how it's already done?

Yes, it is, but it's and All or Nothing type of attack whereas Power Defense and others subtract from the effect of the attack.

 

Just A Clarification

 

- Christopher Mullins

[tesuji]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

It is true that abilities that can be modeled as basic Power Defense are rare, and this can be interpreted as a sign that the power needs fixing,

this is the observation where we agree!

 

but the fact remains that the power "Power Defense", as written, works fine; there's really no reason to change it

 

This is the conclusion where we disagree.

 

and its basically not likely to change.

 

But out of all the things about Hero that would benefit from adjusting, I think Power Defense is pretty low on the list.

 

But its on the list of things that would benefit from adjusting! Thats another place where we agree.

 

enjoy your games.

[Wanderer]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

I disagree that basic all-around Power Defense would be a rare Power. Bricks with exceptionally resilient bodies, Energy Projectors with bodies energized from elemental or exotic energies, cosmic characters, mystic characters (spells of protection), and robotic/cyborg characters with nanotech self-repair systems, can all justify having it. In some cases, even high-powered martial artists (mastery of one's chi). It doesn't seem so rare to me.

[Zanthis]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

Thinking about it I have to say, changing Power Defense to only work against specific SFX effectively makes all adjustment powers NND for free.

 

Imagine, for example, your campaign has five categories of Power Defense (Magic, Chemical, Energy, Technology/Nano, Spiritual). Now, normally if I play a character with a BODY Drain power, I know my opponenets may have Power Defense and this will drastically reduce the effectiveness of my power. With this simple change however, most opponents that do have power defense will only have a 20% chance of having it against my specific SFX of Drain. And it doesn't even matter which SFX I choose. All Power Defense targeting powers become stronger since defenses against them become 1) more expensive, five times so in my example, 2) less common, since most characters will not be able to justify multiple SFX blocking Power Defenses.

 

I already find Adjustment powers well balanced, so I don't think making defenses against them weaker to be a particularly healthy solution for most games.

[Agent X]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

this is the observation where we agree!

The problem with this agreement is that it means nothing. Very few powers in the book aren't rare.

 

 

This is the conclusion where we disagree.

 

and its basically not likely to change.

True enough.

 

 

 

But its on the list of things that would benefit from adjusting! Thats another place where we agree.

I really have no idea why you try to slip these things by people. You obviously are not in agreement on this issue.

[tesuji]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

 

I disagree that basic all-around Power Defense would be a rare Power.

really?

Bricks with exceptionally resilient bodies,

and who, due to their resilient bodies, are resistant to fear effects bought as presence drains?

Energy Projectors with bodies energized from elemental or exotic energies,

and who, due to their elemental energies, are resistant to fear effects bought as presence drains?

 

etc...

 

Now obviously something as vaguely defined as "a spell of protection" can be stretched to cover any conceivable reach, though even it falls a little short on the drain/suppress used to do things like reduce your running/leaping by making the ground soft or the ones which reduce flight/swim by having opposing winds and currents and the like, where the loss/lowering of power comes from an opposing effect as opposed to actually altering you, but is built with adjustement powers because thats what they do, adjust things other than those normally damaged.

[Katherine]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

really?

 

and who, due to their resilient bodies, are resistant to fear effects bought as presence drains?

 

and who, due to their elemental energies, are resistant to fear effects bought as presence drains?

 

etc...

 

Now obviously something as vaguely defined as "a spell of protection" can be stretched to cover any conceivable reach, though even it falls a little short on the drain/suppress used to do things like reduce your running/leaping by making the ground soft or the ones which reduce flight/swim by having opposing winds and currents and the like, where the loss/lowering of power comes from an opposing effect as opposed to actually altering you, but is built with adjustement powers because thats what they do, adjust things other than those normally damaged.

 

Wouldn't the power you are suggesting (Pre Drain based on Fear) be more accurately modelled as a Drain thatworks againt Mental Defense or even NND (No emotions, ego at certain level, etc)? If the person getting the power chooses to ignore what seems to be a common sense modifer for it that is not a failing of Power Defense as a mechanic. You have to get Advantates and limitation to model major effects that your special effects cause.

 

Now the example of opposing force type powers is a more significant one, IMO. Still, an appropriate NND can model those fairly well. Though a truly "Cosmic" character would justify his power defense working against those types as simply "God like might". His power is so vast it cannot be opposed. At least not easily.

[KA.]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

After reading this thread, I have a few thoughts.

 

1) I think a lot of the "problems" with Power Defense can be cured with proper character review by the GM. If the character possesses the "Power Cosmic" or "Total Chi Mastery" they might reasonably have a bunch of overall Power Defense. But, I don't think that more than a handful of other characters would be able to justify it. That doesn't mean that it is "flawed". Not many characters can justify "Desolidification" either, but that does not automatically imply something is "wrong" with having it in the system.

 

2) Power Defense is a Defense. Unless your campaign is rife with NND's that have it as the only defense listed (and it shouldn't be, since that is more like an AVLD) it is not going to be "game breaking" in small amounts. Even if you want to allow more "normal" characters to buy small amounts of it, all it does is reduce the effect of certain attacks.

That, to me, is totally appropriate for heroes of most genres.

After all, we aren't supposed to be building the "extras", we are supposed to be building the "Stars of the Show".

 

How many times have you seen things like:

"Well, Captain Freedom, my Fear Induction Ray would have reduced most men to jelly by now. You must be made of sterner stuff. Turn it up to full power, men!"

 

Superheroes - I have seen fairly "normal" characters like Ant-Man manage to throw off, slow down, or reduce the duration of transformation type effects that instantly changed normal people.

Fantasy - Same thing for characters like Conan. No superpowers, just "strength of will".

 

Now I still maintain that "normal" characters should have very low levels of Power Defense, if any. But it is normal for "heroic figures" to be a little tougher to drain, manipulate, or transform, than regular people.

Heck, they aren't heroes just because they can pick up a Buick, it takes a bit more than that.

 

And again, a small amount of Power Defense can just make it take an extra attack, or a little pushing, to affect them. Or it can mean that they are affected, just not quite as much as Joe Average. This just does not seem like a problem to me for the people who are supposed to be the Heroes.

 

3) I see no problem with Power Defense with Limitations being used to emulate characters that have a high level of resistance to specific types of attacks.

Even though I hesitate to bring up his name because of the feelings he sometimes invokes (in myself as well as others), Wolverine is a good example of this.

His "healing factor" is supposed to be ridiculously high. (At least it was the last time I read X-men, which has been years.) I can see a justification for giving him some type of Power Defense against physical transformations, because his body seems to have a very high "will" to maintain its form.

It just "grows back" to the way it is "supposed" to be. I can see that being purchased, in part, as a limited form of Power Defense.

 

4) I would not like to see Power Defense split up by SFX or any other way.

Yes this is "resistance to change".

But there can be reasons for "resistance to change".

I am sure that somewhere there is a chef who wants to start serving raw bear meat to his customers, if only they would forget about trichinosis and embrace his "vision".

No thanks.

I think this would just be pushing Hero into GURPS territory, where we have a huge number of little individual powers and they all work a little differently. After all, once you officially split Power Defense into categories like Physical, Magical, Spiritual, Chemical, and Technological, the next step would be:

"Well, Physical Transforms really should be affected by Hardened Defenses, but on the other hand, you should get an Ego Roll to avoid Spiritual Transforms, and Magical Transforms should vary based on whether the person doing the transform is from the same plane as you, and Technological transforms should affect foci first, and then characters, except on Tuesdays when its raining . . ." Aaaaaaaaahhhh!

 

Note that under the current system, you can actually do all the crazy permutations above, but the great thing is you don't have to!

You can keep things simple if you want, or make it as complicated as you like.

Splitting things up eliminates the simple option, and forces the complicated one.

 

Also, and this is purely cosmetic, I think it would alter the perceived "focus" of the game.

Power Defense is pretty rare.

Transformation attacks and drains are not that common.

That is because these things are uncommon in the source material.

They show up, but most conflicts are resolved by some combination of physical and energy combat.

If the rules suddenly contained the pages and pages that would be needed to explain all the various types of Power Defense, it could make it appear like Transformations and Drains were the main focus of Hero.

New players would likely think that these attacks were extremely common, and that they not only needed to defend against them, but that they better purchase a few too.

GM's would be in constant arguments about justifying why The Azure Arrow needs an attack that turns his opponent into a pollywog.

Dogs and Cats would start lying together.

The streets would run red with blood!

Okay, maybe all that wouldn't really happen, but I do think it would add a lot of needless complication to the system.

The way it works now can be used to model anything from a strong willed hero who is just not as "vulnerable" to weird attacks as a normal person, to a mentalist that can stave off "Mind Drains" all day, but turns into a pumpkin just as easily as the next guy.

I just don't see the need for all the extra baggage to change it.

 

KA.

[tesuji]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

if you look up a bit, you might see where i strongly recommend that adjustment power attacks be modelled using a NND base instead of the current power defense vs all.

 

You are correct. if all the cases where "against power defense does not make sense" adjustment powers were made to be NNDs for example, so that they bypass the whole "what is power defense?" question, then there would be no reason to change either power defense or the adjustment powers.

 

I think thats close to the same drive for changing adjustment powers to be NNDish in their mechanic instead of keeping them "flashish" in their mechanic.

 

Wouldn't the power you are suggesting (Pre Drain based on Fear) be more accurately modelled as a Drain thatworks againt Mental Defense or even NND (No emotions, ego at certain level, etc)? If the person getting the power chooses to ignore what seems to be a common sense modifer for it that is not a failing of Power Defense as a mechanic. You have to get Advantates and limitation to model major effects that your special effects cause.

 

Now the example of opposing force type powers is a more significant one, IMO. Still, an appropriate NND can model those fairly well. Though a truly "Cosmic" character would justify his power defense working against those types as simply "God like might". His power is so vast it cannot be opposed. At least not easily.

[tesuji]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

After reading this thread, I have a few thoughts.

 

Short answer... the "lets not complicate things" argument does not ring soundly to me when discussing HERO rules. it really feels like that boat (should we make this a complicated system or not) sailed long, long ago and hasn't ever come back into port. :-)

 

YMMV, of course.

[Katherine]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

if you look up a bit, you might see where i strongly recommend that adjustment power attacks be modelled using a NND base instead of the current power defense vs all.

 

You are correct. if all the cases where "against power defense does not make sense" adjustment powers were made to be NNDs for example, so that they bypass the whole "what is power defense?" question, then there would be no reason to change either power defense or the adjustment powers.

 

I think thats close to the same drive for changing adjustment powers to be NNDish in their mechanic instead of keeping them "flashish" in their mechanic.

 

I guess I honestly don't see what the problem is. Perhaps you could explain your point a bit more clearly? Personally, I like being able to model Resistance to a certain attack form (Or many attack) forms (varying degrees of Power Defense) instead of them automically being assumed to be "All or Nothing" NND. An Adjustment power that shouldn't be stopped by Power Defense can be purchased as such. As for what is "Power Defense" its whatever you want it to be that grants the game mechanic same as What is Energy Blast. Powerful lifeforce, a form that innately resistant to change (We had a character called Master Order that was the embodiment of Stasis. Very little could change him. Ever.) Super advanced repair systems that counter anything done to your form, etc. If you Power Defense wouldn't logically apply against a large sfx then get a limitation.

[Guest Kolava]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

If your Power Defense wouldn't logically apply against a large sfx then get a limitation.

 

This deserves to be repeated because it sums the issue up pretty well.

[tesuji]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

 

I guess I honestly don't see what the problem is.

oh well.

Perhaps you could explain your point a bit more clearly?

not clear enough i would wager.

Personally, I like being able to model Resistance to a certain attack form (Or many attack) forms (varying degrees of Power Defense) instead of them automically being assumed to be "All or Nothing" NND.

OK.

An Adjustment power that shouldn't be stopped by Power Defense can be purchased as such. As for what is "Power Defense" its whatever you want it to be that grants the game mechanic

right and what exactly is this sfx that stops everything from buffesting winds (suppress vs flight), itching powder (dex drain), life sucking undead (body drain, str drain etc), diseases (con crain), protects their ray guns or magic rings from dispels and drains as well and blocks cowing fear (pre drains)?

 

I can name dozens of sfx that fit "causes pain (stun), physical trauma (body) and knockback" to explain what an Eb does when its bought as is. I can do the same for desolid which several people have mentioned.

 

I cannot say the same for power attack. The reason i cannot is that adjustment powers are used as a catch all for anything that affects the "other traits" that damage does not. As such their sfx varies so broadly that the notion of a single defense that counters all the different fx starts failing.

 

(We had a character called Master Order that was the embodiment of Stasis. Very little could change him. Ever.) Super advanced repair systems that counter anything done to your form, etc. If you Power Defense wouldn't logically apply against a large sfx then get a limitation.

 

Was master order also resistant to having his movement slowed by soft mud bought as a area suppress vs running and leaping?

if not, was that a limitation defined for him on his chargen, or was it just easier to buy power defense for cheap at the start and not worry about that pesky sfx issue? Would buffetting winds bought as suppress movement have less effect on him because he himself could not be altered?

[Guest Kolava]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

 

 

oh well.

 

not clear enough i would wager.

 

OK.

 

right and what exactly is this sfx that stops everything from buffesting winds (suppress vs flight), itching powder (dex drain), life sucking undead (body drain, str drain etc), diseases (con crain), protects their ray guns or magic rings from dispels and drains as well and blocks cowing fear (pre drains)?

 

I can name dozens of sfx that fit "causes pain (stun), physical trauma (body) and knockback" to explain what an Eb does when its bought as is. I can do the same for desolid which several people have mentioned.

 

I cannot say the same for power attack. The reason i cannot is that adjustment powers are used as a catch all for anything that affects the "other traits" that damage does not. As such their sfx varies so broadly that the notion of a single defense that counters all the different fx starts failing.

 

 

 

Was master order also resistant to having his movement slowed by soft mud bought as a area suppress vs running and leaping?

if not, was that a limitation defined for him on his chargen, or was it just easier to buy power defense for cheap at the start and not worry about that pesky sfx issue? Would buffetting winds bought as suppress movement have less effect on him because he himself could not be altered?

As I believe it's been mentioned before, the things you're describing are much better suited for Change Enviroment, a power for which defenses don't normally apply anyway.

[schir1964]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

Finally decided to give my opinion on this, since is touches on some inconsistencies that the Hero System allows for.

 

The general rule for Hero Design is to build a small effect and then build up from there with Adders and Advantages.

 

The exceptions to the rule is where certain mechanics are built for ease of use or for simplicity based on how common that mechanic will be used. This leads to the need for restricting those mechanics even further with Subtractors and Limitations.

 

Adjustment Powers by Default affect a game mechanic instead of an SFX, thereby, granting the base adjustment power ability to affect an infinite number of SFX. This is inconsistent for the General Rule, but doesn't qualify to be an exception.

 

In My Opinion, the commonality of a power that affects and infinite amount of SFX is minute compared to the number of powers that affect a single or a few SFX.

 

This is not to say that such powers shouldn't be buildable, but I think it should follow the General Rule. Therefore, for my games you must automatically specify what SFX an Adjustment Power targets within the game mechanic. If you want to expand to include more SFX and eventually all SFX of a game mechanic, then you take the appropriate Advantage to expand the scope.

 

I can think of no reason that Physical/Energy/Power/Flash Defenses couldn't be made consistent also.

 

Just My Humble Opinion

 

Continue on... (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Katherine]

Re: Power Defence... Ugg

 

 

right and what exactly is this sfx that stops everything from buffesting winds (suppress vs flight), itching powder (dex drain), life sucking undead (body drain, str drain etc), diseases (con crain), protects their ray guns or magic rings from dispels and drains as well and blocks cowing fear (pre drains)?

 

Not very many (Of course, your "Power Defense" could be short hand for untold numbers of defensive systems or just plain cinematic resistance, or even "DCV" its all special effects in Hero) or something pretty godlike, but allot of those attacks shouldn't be purchased as baseline adjustment powers. Alot of the are NND and AVLD against different defenses, Life Supports etc. Your Power Def can be quite broad though as it might represent a number of things. Or it might not, then get a limitation.

 

I cannot say the same for power attack. The reason i cannot is that adjustment powers are used as a catch all for anything that affects the "other traits" that damage does not. As such their sfx varies so broadly that the notion of a single defense that counters all the different fx starts failing.

 

Then, if your Adjustment attack shouldn't be stopped by power defense. Buy it as such. Again, what's the problem?

 

Was master order also resistant to having his movement slowed by soft mud bought as a area suppress vs running and leaping if not, was that a limitation defined for him on his chargen, or was it just easier to buy power defense for cheap at the start and not worry about that pesky sfx issue? Would buffetting winds bought as suppress movement have less effect on him because he himself could not be altered?

 

Are you trying to imply Master Order's player was "Min Maxing" somehow? Please. Those Powers your listing again should be purchased in some means that do not interact with Power Defense. You asked for a SFX that might justify broad range Power Defense I gave you one. Two in fact, Natural Stasis or God Like Indomitable Power. If you don't get a power that accurately represents what effect you want don't blame the system. If I get my character's power to throw rocks really hard as Stretching (It lets me use Strength at range, right?) and I get zapped by Damage Shields I shouldn't bitch that Stretching or Damage Sheild are somehow "Broken." I constructed the ability in accurately. Its not the systems job to cover for people not using it correctly or thinking out their sfx properly. If the player was just trying to save point and not get his "Buffeting winds" Suppress vs FLight as NND or limited TK, well that his choice. He saved points but for some reason "Power Def Mans" legal and paid for Power Defense protects him from it.

 

And, could you please cut back on the thinly veiled cracks just a -tad- please. It doesn't lead to a reasonable discussion and it just comes across as pissy and childish.