Favorite Abuses

[Trencher]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

I think powers that mess with the char's abillity to take stun is abusive. Using automaton rules for character wich are not automatons. Second I have played in way to many campains where almost every enemy had some for of damage reduction.

[zornwil]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

Not to ignite any debate, but...Elemental Controls. I have played fast and loose with them, admittedly.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

Back in the olden days before I started to GM (and realized how abusive this is), many of my characters had autofire and area effect on unusual attacks (ego blast, NNDs, drains, tiny RKA with the penetrating advantage, etc.). 5th ed. rightfully increased the cost of such builds, but they can still be quite effective:

 

The Rapid Fire Exploding Man

2d6 EB (10 points).

NND (+1). Make sure the defense is something that your character has.

Area effect 5" radius (+1).

Autofire 10 shots (+1, +1 for a non-standard attack power).

0 END (+1, because of autofire).

No Range (-1/2).

 

60 active points. 40 real points.

 

If I recall correctly, No Range area effect attacks always hit. That means all 10 shots hit, for an average of 70 STUN pips to everyone within 5" of your character. Zoiks! Most villains will fall instantly if they have neither the NND defense nor Damage Reduction.

 

If you want to get even more obscene, take a multipower and fill it with a few of these attacks, each slot having a different NND defense to guarantee that you'll be ready for any villain. Add a final slot with a BODY Drain for dealing with automatons that take no STUN.

 

John "not in my campaign" Speroni

 

"Characters ordinarily shouldn't have more than one type of NND attack"

-Fred, p171

 

Anything with more than +2 in advantages always gets a close inspection by any system savvy GM. It's stuff like this that makes me long for the days when NND was a separate 10 pt/d6 power.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

Ordinarily, but not always. Then again, the usual exception to the NND rule of thumb is the martial artist/gadgeteer, whose NNDs tend to be fairly standard defense. . .

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

If you want to get even more obscene' date=' take a multipower and fill it with a few of these attacks, each slot having a different NND defense to guarantee that you'll be ready for any villain. [/quote']

 

By rules, characters should almost never have no more than one NND attack, unless multiple have essentially the same defense (you may have, for example, a taser EB and also an area effect taser pulse, but not a taser (Defense = resistant ED) and a gas attack (defense = LS/Self-contained breathing).

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

Ordinarily' date=' but not always. Then again, the usual exception to the NND rule of thumb is the martial artist/gadgeteer, whose NNDs tend to be fairly standard defense. . .[/quote']

 

If it became abusive, I would rule that a given gadget pool couldn't contain more than one NND at a time. With VPPs in general, one should carefully examine the special effects - any time you have a VPP with the Limited Types of Powers/Limited Special Effects - especially if the value of said limit is -1/2 or more - it's questionable whether one should be able to do multiple NNDs.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

"Characters ordinarily shouldn't have more than one type of NND attack"

-Fred, p171

 

Anything with more than +2 in advantages always gets a close inspection by any system savvy GM. It's stuff like this that makes me long for the days when NND was a separate 10 pt/d6 power.

 

ummm...what days are those? It wasn't 1st through 5th ED...

[zornwil]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

ummm...what days are those? It wasn't 1st through 5th ED...

Heh, the good old days when we didn't understand some of the rules and were in isolated gaming groups that came up with now-disproven conventions...

 

(with apologies to BNakagawa, I'm not suggesting anything in regard to his comment other than to observe light-heartedly this was the cause of some of the "good old days" comments that have otherwise arisen)

[Metaphysician]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

If it became abusive' date=' I would rule that a given gadget pool couldn't contain more than one NND at a time. With VPPs in general, one should carefully examine the special effects - any time you have a VPP with the Limited Types of Powers/Limited Special Effects - especially if the value of said limit is -1/2 or more - it's questionable whether one should be able to do multiple NNDs.[/quote']

 

Actually, I was thinking mostly martial arts attacks and "mundane" gadgets, like gas and poison darts. The point being, though, that the NNDs in these cases are mostly against common and readily-identifiable defenses.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

Actually' date=' I was thinking mostly martial arts attacks and "mundane" gadgets, like gas and poison darts. The point being, though, that the NNDs in these cases are mostly against common and readily-identifiable defenses.[/quote']

 

Yeah, those aren't a problem, really. The 2-3d6 NND MA maneuvers rarely cause any game balance issues, nor does an occasional gas bomb or such. SWAT team guys can usually ignore that sort of stuff. Multiple, large NNDs requiring unusual defenses are more when things start becoming a problem.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

Heh' date=' the good old days when we didn't understand some of the rules (snip)[/quote']We understand all of the rules now?

[JmOz]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

Yeah' date=' those aren't a problem, really. The 2-3d6 NND MA maneuvers rarely cause any game balance issues, nor does an occasional gas bomb or such. SWAT team guys can usually ignore that sort of stuff. Multiple, large NNDs requiring unusual defenses are more when things start becoming a problem.[/quote']

 

Also I have no problem with variations of the same NND:

 

Example:

Smog Man can generate a concentrated blast of smog (6d6 NND)

An exploding Smog Bomb (5d6 NND Ex)

or a smog field (4d6 NND AEr)

[Zanthis]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

Can't believe no one abused doubling equipment yet :

 

1pip RKA(ED): Penetratingx4(+2), Affects Desolid(+1/2), Area Effect: One Hex(+1/2?), No Range Penalty(+1/2), 0 END (+1), OAF Gun(-1): Active Points: 27, Real Points: 14

 

x64 Copies of the above, Active/Real Points: 30 (5 points per doubling)

 

+62 Extra Limbs: Multiple Arms+Hands, Active/Real Points: 5

 

Total Real Points: 49

 

You can now MPA with all 64 Guns (no off hand penalties btw) and deal 64 BODY (and 64 STUN too) to any target within range. Every phase. And you won't miss even at extreme ranges. Feel free to add indirect, some range doubling and N-Ray vision to your character for added fun.

 

Better yet, give your character Duplication with 64 Duplicates, each with 64 limbs each wielding such guns. Your combined posse can deal 4096 BODY (and STUN) divided up in blocks of 64 to any target(s) of your choosing.

 

Optionally, make this 64-armed monster one of your Followers, and buy a couple hundred of him. Then make your characters power the ability to teleport your followers all over the place. With enough tweaking, you'll never have to leave your underground Base, you can just teleport your followers anywhere there is trouble and they'll quickly dispatch it. Or, teleport the trouble right to your base where it will be surrounded by 512 64-armed Followers all with Held Actions.

[dbsousa]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

Also I have no problem with variations of the same NND:

 

Example:

Smog Man can generate a concentrated blast of smog (6d6 NND)

An exploding Smog Bomb (5d6 NND Ex)

or a smog field (4d6 NND AEr)

 

I assumed he meant NND's with different effects: the 4d6 NND Neutron Gun (Defense is Force Field), and the 4d6 NND Force Field Subverter (Defense is No Force Field)

[lazarus]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

Optionally' date=' make this 64-armed monster one of your Followers, and buy a couple hundred of him. Then make your characters power the ability to teleport your followers all over the place. With enough tweaking, you'll never have to leave your underground Base, you can just teleport your followers anywhere there is trouble and they'll quickly dispatch it. Or, teleport the trouble right to your base where it will be surrounded by 512 64-armed Followers all with Held Actions.[/quote']

 

For some reason, I now want to see this in action

 

And for my first game I run, anything the rules will allow I'll allow. Just for fun.

 

Laz

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

We understand all of the rules now?

 

Sure we do

 

If we didn't, there would be huge lists of questions in a FAQ

 

Or endless debates on the boards

 

Or a special board devoted solely to rules questions

 

WAIT A MINUTE!

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

Also I have no problem with variations of the same NND:

 

Example:

Smog Man can generate a concentrated blast of smog (6d6 NND)

An exploding Smog Bomb (5d6 NND Ex)

or a smog field (4d6 NND AEr)

 

Yeah, like I said earlier, having multiple versions of the same NND (same defense) is usually fine, like Taser-Man having both a single-target taser blast and a wide-area taser pulse - both stopped by resistant ED or whatever - is fine. On the other hand, Mr. Multi, with a multipower something like:

 

1) 5d6 EB, NND [Defense = LS: Self-Contained Breathing] Gas Attack

2) 5d6 EB, NND [Defense = Power Defense] Gene-disruptor Blast

3) 5d6 EB, NND [Defense = Hardened PD] Vibrational Blast

4) 5d6 EB, NND [Defense = Flash Defense for Normal Hearing/Hearing Group] Hi-Decibel Blast

 

... is just wrong.

[dbsousa]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

My favorite abuse is the NND with the defense being a lack of a defense...

 

for example:

Flash Defense Override: NND Flash, Defense is no Flash Defense

 

Neutron Gun: NND EB, Defense is no Resistant Defense

[Metaphysician]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

Yeah, like I said earlier, having multiple versions of the same NND (same defense) is usually fine, like Taser-Man having both a single-target taser blast and a wide-area taser pulse - both stopped by resistant ED or whatever - is fine. On the other hand, Mr. Multi, with a multipower something like:

 

1) 5d6 EB, NND [Defense = LS: Self-Contained Breathing] Gas Attack

2) 5d6 EB, NND [Defense = Power Defense] Gene-disruptor Blast

3) 5d6 EB, NND [Defense = Hardened PD] Vibrational Blast

4) 5d6 EB, NND [Defense = Flash Defense for Normal Hearing/Hearing Group] Hi-Decibel Blast

 

... is just wrong.

 

If somebody wants that kind of nastiness, they should have the buy an appropriate VPP and supporting skills. In which case, they end up with either only one config at a time with significant time to change, or have payed the points for a cosmic VPP, in which case they've spent over a 100 points for a set of 50 AP attacks.

 

And, considering that IMHO, VPPs should *always* come with appropriate other attributes, its not just the VPP cost they are paying for.

 

( a gadgeteer should have high INT and various science skills, for example )

[Metaphysician]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

Here's an abuse: Mr Vehicle.

 

The character who has spent most of his points on one big-ass vehicle ( probably a spacecraft of some kind ), with the proper abilities so he never has to leave it. Thus, aside from abilities needed to operate the vehicle and such ( and perhaps the supergenius to build it ), he needs no combat abilities, or any kind of out-of-vehicle abilities.

[Pegasus]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

Here's an abuse: Mr Vehicle.

 

The character who has spent most of his points on one big-ass vehicle ( probably a spacecraft of some kind ), with the proper abilities so he never has to leave it. Thus, aside from abilities needed to operate the vehicle and such ( and perhaps the supergenius to build it ), he needs no combat abilities, or any kind of out-of-vehicle abilities.

 

...until there's a chase down a narrow corridor or some such.

 

I tried it

[lazarus]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

Here's an abuse: Mr Vehicle.

 

The character who has spent most of his points on one big-ass vehicle ( probably a spacecraft of some kind ), with the proper abilities so he never has to leave it. Thus, aside from abilities needed to operate the vehicle and such ( and perhaps the supergenius to build it ), he needs no combat abilities, or any kind of out-of-vehicle abilities.

So, in other words, a Rigger in Cyberpunk parlance?

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

That's cool until the vehicle gets trashed. Look at the DCV for most vehicles sometimes... hard to not hit. Hell, given modifiers, even called shots are usually easy to do on vehicles.

 

I reported before on Big Brother, the guy who thought he was cool, sitting up in orbit with scads of telescopic N-Ray Vision and craploads of mental powers, mind-blasting people from outer space. He wasn't so cool when the GM sent flying bricks to go smack the crap out of his space station, leaving him stranded in space.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

So' date=' in other words, a Rigger in Cyberpunk parlance?[/quote']

 

I never played much Cyberpunk/Shadowrun, but everyone I know considered Rigger charcters worthless 9 times out of 10. They're rightly NPCs.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Favorite Abuses

 

My favorite abuse is the NND with the defense being a lack of a defense...

 

for example:

Flash Defense Override: NND Flash, Defense is no Flash Defense

 

Neutron Gun: NND EB, Defense is no Resistant Defense

 

Examples of defenses that are usually inappropriate include a lack of anything (for example, "lack of Resistant Defenses", "lack of Mental Defense", or "not being a Dwarf") or a defined number of points of defense (for example"10 or more points of Power Defense").

 

guess where that comes from.