tgaptte Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Okay, perhaps I'm over generalizing a bit...but, it certainly *SEEMS* like there are never any FH games at conventions...just look at the ConQuest schedule: http://www.con-quest.com/site/conquest2004/rpg.htm There are 4 or so Champs games, an X-files game, a Hell's Children game and a game about Sock Puppets in Love or somesuch! But no FH...Is FH too hard to run at a Con? What are your opinions? Thanks. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palehorse Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: Why are there never any Fantasy Hero games at the Cons? Supers games seem exceptionally well-suited to one-shot games, and tend to show off the system more than other genres... Pure speculation on my part, though; I'm hardly a con expert! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: Why are there never any Fantasy Hero games at the Cons? The one time I ran a Fantasy game at a convention (the first KublaCon, if I remember right), I found myself having to explain the setting far too much rather than playing. Of course, if I had been running a more "standard" setting, this wouldn't have been as much of a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcady Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: Why are there never any Fantasy Hero games at the Cons? I think Fantasy Hero is still somewhat obscure. Look at the post count here as opposed to the post count in the Champions forum... Whenever you do any fantasy RPG other than DnD you have to convince people that they shouldn't just be using DnD, and this seems to hold even for people who don't like DnD... I personally think if you put together a short adventure Fantasy Hero would work better at a convention than champions. In a four hour time slot (the norm for the conventions I've been to) all you can do with Champions is get to pahse 3 of the first combat... For Fantasy Hero though, you could manage a whole miniature scenerio. But you will need to stick to some basic conventions. If not mimicking DnD you will have to mimic something else well known - at least as well known as perhaps the Wheel of Time novels. That's probably your best bet too - mimic some work of fiction. Or you can run the 'your characters all show up at Jose's for the weekly DnD game, but get sucked into a vortex and find themselves in a strange world' scenerio... That way, part of the feature is that you -don't- explain the setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: Why are there never any Fantasy Hero games at the Cons? There are usually several every year at Dundracon. Keith "Short, snappy answers" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsousa Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: Why are there never any Fantasy Hero games at the Cons? There are usually several every year at Dundracon. Keith "Short, snappy answers" Curtis HAC, or III, or whatever they call themselves now, used to run a great recurring Fantasy Hero game at GenCon. The characters belonged to a circus, if I recall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aylwin13 Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: Why are there never any Fantasy Hero games at the Cons? >SNIP< In a four hour time slot (the norm for the conventions I've been to) all you can do with Champions is get to pahse 3 of the first combat... For Fantasy Hero though, you could manage a whole miniature scenerio. >SNIP< This is not always true. It would depend on the players involved (and the number of players), the scenario being played, the GM(s) running the game, etc. Many years ago a buddy of mine and I wrote a scenario for 6 players, to be run in a 4 hour slot. It involved being called in to a crime scene, detective work, a combat with a powerful single opponent (the "mistaken identity" combat), discovering the location of the actual villians, and a second combat with the 5 standard villians. The players finished the adventure, in BOTH slots that we ran. Having 2 GMs made a big difference. Scott was the primary GM, running the scenario. I helped with the combats, making sure that the next players to act were ready; played the villian characters; and assisted the players with any questions or problems. I realize that the actual roleplaying was limited, but the players still managed to "get into" the characters enough that Scott and I could look at each other and say, "yeah, that was how we pictured those characters when we wrote them up." And now back to our interupted discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: Why are there never any Fantasy Hero games at the Cons? HAC' date=' or III, or whatever they call themselves now, used to run a great recurring Fantasy Hero game at GenCon. The characters belonged to a circus, if I recall...[/quote'] Yes, Madame Gutanov's...that game is the best Gen Con game ever to date, IMO. Unfortunately they stopped running it several years back, but there are rumors that it might return. For me, the main reason I don't run Fantasy Hero is that I play a lot of fantasy in general, and it's fun to do different genres when you can. I've thought about running a fantasy game, but it's lower on the list than some other stuff (like Firefly, which I'm working on for next year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadDomain Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: Why are there never any Fantasy Hero games at the Cons? In a four hour time slot (the norm for the conventions I've been to) all you can do with Champions is get to pahse 3 of the first combat... I assume you are joking. I can't see most of our Champions fights taking more then 30 minutes. Maybe an hour when it is the *BIG* fight with many villains. The "combat takes forever" argument is in my opinion the the second worst misconception about HERO, the first being "HERO is math heavy"... Sorry, that was completely off topic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: Why are there never any Fantasy Hero games at the Cons? In a four hour time slot (the norm for the conventions I've been to) all you can do with Champions is get to pahse 3 of the first combat... For Fantasy Hero though' date=' you could manage a whole miniature scenerio.[/quote'] It depends on the GM and the game, really. Derek regualarly runs a Challenge of the Superfrineds game at Dundracon with two dozen combatants in multiple fights in that time slot. 'course he's a genius. Keith "Giving credit" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgaptte Posted September 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Re: Why are there never any Fantasy Hero games at the Cons? Perhaps there were some at DunDraCon...but there weren't any at Kublacon and currently none listed at ConQuest...how about other conventions? Have you noticed this lack of FH games? Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcady Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Re: Why are there never any Fantasy Hero games at the Cons? I assume you are joking. The "combat takes forever" argument is in my opinion the the second worst misconception about HERO, the first being "HERO is math heavy"... Well, I wasn't really joking. I've never run nor played through a Champions fight that took less than 1 to 2 hours in the 20 years I've been around the system. I've only seen it get faster at Heroic level. The norm has been 3 to 5 hours, and I've had it go up to 12 on me before. And it is math heavy... you're working division and subtraction and multiplication during play constantly - a lot of people get tripped up by that, as well as tripped up by multi-variable addition (counting normal damage for example) - one of the key reasons I've seen those combats take so long in Champions (other reasons are END, REC, and varying values in the group for SPEED). At Heroic level you're not working with as many dice and as many powers that need recalculating, so a lot of the issue fades away. Given how often you see this issue, the people who can work with those numbers 'at real speed' are clearly in the minority. You can deny it all you want, your group may not see it, but they are an exception and you only have to look at the larger world of gamers who have dealt with Hero to see that. If you don't have these issues, countless gamers out there (if they believe your claim) envy you for it. For me, invariably at least half if not more of the players get tripped up by one or more of the above issues and things get very slow. It's always been that way and not only have I never met anyone personally who pulled out a group that went faster, but while I have "met" them online, I've encountered many more people online who match my experience. The first time I ran Justice Inc the suprise at the speed of play by comparrision made me wonder if I'd done something wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legendsmiths Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Re: Why are there never any Fantasy Hero games at the Cons? Well, Legendsmiths is doing their part. For the past 2-3 years we have been running at least 2 FH games at Origins, GenCon, U*Con, and Penguicon. Unfortunately, I cannot get to many more cons than that in a year. Combat speed is largely about organization and pacing. The events we run play out with 2-3 combats, plus roleplaying, plus 1/2 hour intro to Hero and our setting in a 4 hour slot. That's also playing with our target audience of players that have never played Hero before. I wish I could make it to Dundracon, Kublacon, and others. I would certainly run. But the events are happening, just not necessarily in your neck of the woods. We also use 2 GMs. This helps with fatigue, or inversely to keep the energy level up, and allows the floater GM to help answer questions that might keep play from moving. If you want to see us running, we posted our GenCon pics: http://www.narosia.com/gallery/GenCon2004/GenCon2004.html Combat length is often about measuring the challenge relative to the players. Since you are creating a 1-shot to run at a con, you should be able to fully control the challenge and pacing of any combat. Nothing should take much longer than you plan. Things happen, but good planning can make a lot of difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyGuardian Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Re: Why are there never any Fantasy Hero games at the Cons? I'm running a champions adventure (assuming anyone signs up) at gamefest richmond in two weeks. The first playtest I only got in one of the two combats planned and narrated through the second. But that was because I let the roleplay and investigation go long. combat couldn't have been more than 45 min. Then again I am running a second test this weekend just to get the timing down. A combat chart helps Immensely. Also checking that defense to offense is balanced to have relatively quick resolution is key. I could have written a fantasy scenario but the con has a LOT of fantasy going on as well as some spycraft. The only other hero offering is a star hero scenario that I would sign up for but conflicts with the rpga thing I agreed to judge for on saturday evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcady Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Re: Why are there never any Fantasy Hero games at the Cons? All other issues aside... We need to get more Fantasy Hero games going simply to get the game more prevelant. Fantasy Hero exists in a pretty obscure space right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadDomain Posted September 4, 2004 Report Share Posted September 4, 2004 Re: Why are there never any Fantasy Hero games at the Cons? Again, I don't want to hijack this topic but... And it is math heavy... you're working division and subtraction and multiplication during play constantly ... I thought about it a bit and I cannot see division or multiplication being needed during play. Can you give me examples. I may be just forgetting something. As for addition and substraction, every games have them. So speed of play depends more on how many you have to make, how many dice rolling and experience of the group. a lot of people get tripped up by that' date=' as well as tripped up by multi-variable addition (counting normal damage for example) - one of the key reasons I've seen those combats take so long in Champions (other reasons are END, REC, and varying values in the group for SPEED). At Heroic level you're not working with as many dice and as many powers that need recalculating, so a lot of the issue fades away.[/quote'] Ok, we are getting at the root of our disagreement here. One thing that we tried and really enjoyed is the optional rule of rolling 1d6 for damage (sidebar page 253). We all have the "low", "average" and "high" amount of damage written on our character sheet and a full table with very level of damage is lying on the table at all time. It greatly speeded up play. No more counting bodies and stuns of 15 dice. The second thing we did is completely ignore END. It makes for less bookeeping and since the players don't have to worry about running out of juice, they can fully use there powers and the combats end faster. On average, our combats run for about 2 turns (4 players against 2 to 6 opponents). Given how often you see this issue' date=' the people who can work with those numbers 'at real speed' are clearly in the minority. You can deny it all you want, your group may not see it, but they are an exception and you only have to look at the larger world of gamers who have dealt with Hero to see that. If you don't have these issues, countless gamers out there (if they believe your claim) envy you for it.[/quote'] Hummm.. thanks for the free psychological evaluation here... Dread "the blind liar in denial" Domain (according to Arkady) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bblackmoor Posted September 4, 2004 Report Share Posted September 4, 2004 Re: Why are there never any Fantasy Hero games at the Cons? Fantasy Hero is an order of magnitude less complex than D&D. If both games were brand new, fresh off the presses, it would not even be a contest, in my opinion. However, the devil you know is usually preferable to the devil you don't: D&D is familiar, known by millions, and has many times more source material available for it. So there you go. That being said, I'll be at GameFest in Richmond. If three or more people track me down on Saturday and ask me to run a Fantasy Hero game, I'll be happy to oblige. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcady Posted September 4, 2004 Report Share Posted September 4, 2004 Re: Why are there never any Fantasy Hero games at the Cons? Division or multiplication will come into play anytime you use an adjustment power and thus have points come into play. Costs will need to be recalculated. Even more so with VPPs and the Use Power skill if you take the advice from USPD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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