Gods and Champions

[Katherine]

Doesn't it seem that religous based Superheroes get a sort of lopsided treatment? Characters like Thor, Hercules and others never seem to catch much flak for claiming to be pagan gods and such, but Christian based supers are either unheard of or portrayed as over zealous wack jobs. I'm not a particularly religous person so please don't take this a some sort of rant, just something I've noticed.

 

I think characters like Thor should be facing some major PR issues, more so than mutant really. Claiming not only to be divine, but Pagan would raise some serious issues in some places. Maybe there would be an organization like the Church of the Archangel Michael or other mutant hate groups, but religously inspired and dedicated to putting down/debunking the false gods. Has anyone done anything like this in their campaigns?

[OddHat]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

In several of my campaigns, the largest non-government affiliated group of Superhumans in the world worked for the Roman Catholic Church. There were also multiple Southern Baptist teams, and the Moonies had a huge super team, mostly drawn from Korea and China. I always make sure to have a few religious supers running around.

 

Yes, I'd expect a hero claiming to be a God to attract cultists and the bitter hatred of religious groups. The standard comic-book answer is that no one takes them seriously.

 

The official Champions Universe had at least one hero claiming to be an Angel. She "died" in battle against Takofanes.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

My New Sentinels campaign features Horus-Re, who is a demigod. There is in fact a small (but growing) cult based around him, and there are some - from the Christian Right and among the Islamic Community, in particular - who take issue with him.

 

As far as how one deals with this issue, I think that depends in part on the campaign in question. If the campaign features literally magical beings who are not evil and also not Kabbalists, that pretty much tells you that Christianity has to be off about at least a few basic facts. Beyond that, there may well be ways some Divine characters could prove to the satisfaction of most (religious extremists would still dismiss such "proof" as the Devil's lies, of course) that their claims are true, and that things like Faerie, the pagan gods and such do exist. This might well shake up the religious establishment in lots of ways - crises of faith among the believers, rampant opposition by the devout and the religious heirarchies, etc.

 

Or it might not. One could take the approach that Marvel Comics has classically used, in which Thor stated quite clearly that even the Gods of Asgard, Olympus, etc. were neither the full story nor the last word regarding divinity, and that there were cosmic gods beyond even their power and understanding.

 

BTW, for one Christian hero, check out Redeemer on my "Sharing the Wealth" thread. I've always been fairly proud of the character, feeling I presented him and his faith in a fair, even-handed manner even though I am myself not religious. He was a popular NPC in the campaign for which he was created, and a couple folk in my campaign group and here on the Hero Boards have commented positively via IM and such.

[SKJAM!]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Mainstream comic books have generally handled religion poorly, for various reasons. The "pagan god" types in early Marvel had no real problems since a) the comics avoided dealing with the real-world religious aspects of the characters, and the general public didn't actually believe that Thor, etc. were really "gods", just people with special powers who had names similar to (or stolen from) the mythology books.

 

Various stabs have been made at dealing with the Norse religion and its interaction with other faiths over the years in Thor's book, some more successful than others.

 

Hercules' various solo series have largely avoided the topic.

 

I'd say the best try at a Christian superhero at Marvel was Espirita, formerly known as Firebird. West Coast Avengers, I forget the issue numbers. (A later writer deliberately de-religionified her, though that story has been pretty much ignored ever since.)

 

 

My own superhero characters have been nominally Christian for the most part, some more fervent than others.

[Powerhouse]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

As noted, in the Marvel Universe most people tend to consider Thor to not really be a Norse God but someone who styles himself as one. Admittedly, it's a little wierd to think that a radiation accident gave someone the ability to so closely mimic a god but oh well. I guess it's easier for people to believe something that doesn't make sense than question their faith. It's kinda like Defender and many others in the CU refusing to believe in magic but instead trying to define it as mental powers or what not.

 

The storyline that ran through Thor where he tried to establish his own religion on Earth probably throws that out of whack but its effects will likely be glossed over in the future.

 

In general, the writers (who I suspect of a slight liberal bend) like to trot out religion to say "religion taken too far is bad." Unfortunately they also tend to not show religion as it affects a character on a daily basis like Superman going to Church on Sunday or Spriderman being asked to sponser someone for confirmation. If it doesn't have a direct impact on the story, it just doesn't exist.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

As noted, in the Marvel Universe most people tend to consider Thor to not really be a Norse God but someone who styles himself as one. Admittedly, it's a little wierd to think that a radiation accident gave someone the ability to so closely mimic a god but oh well. I guess it's easier for people to believe something that doesn't make sense than question their faith. It's kinda like Defender and many others in the CU refusing to believe in magic but instead trying to define it as mental powers or what not.

 

The storyline that ran through Thor where he tried to establish his own religion on Earth probably throws that out of whack but its effects will likely be glossed over in the future.

 

In general, the writers (who I suspect of a slight liberal bend) like to trot out religion to say "religion taken too far is bad." Unfortunately they also tend to not show religion as it affects a character on a daily basis like Superman going to Church on Sunday or Spriderman being asked to sponser someone for confirmation. If it doesn't have a direct impact on the story, it just doesn't exist.

 

Well, Thor really IS some kind of Alien, right? So they've got the basics down okay.

 

And Radiation seems to be able to do anything else, why not make you godly?

Maybe you swallowed a radioactive holy symbol.

[Katherine]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

I always thought the "Jesus was a Nova!" myth from Aberrant was a fairly realistic thing to develop in a Superhero world.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Perhaps, but too iron age for most settings.

[caris]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

In general' date=' the writers (who I suspect of a slight liberal bend) like to trot out religion to say "religion taken too far is bad." Unfortunately they also tend to not show religion as it affects a character on a daily basis like Superman going to Church on Sunday or Spriderman being asked to sponser someone for confirmation. If it doesn't have a direct impact on the story, it just doesn't exist.[/quote']

 

I disagree some what. I have seen religion, and lets be honest you mean the Judeao-Christian religions, brought out in a positive light as often as I've seen the intolerant bigot brought out. Claremont made a significant issue of exploring the religion of the X-Men during the hight of his and Byrne's best run. I have seen other such references to positive religious characters very frequently. I would say the main reason that the writers are cautious about bringing in the Judeao-Christian religion is that they are afraid of being percieved as disrespectful, or as trivialising God.

[BcAugust]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Hmm, though I can think of about three comics where faith was a really good thing, though none of them are superheros. Tomb of Dracula, Crimson, and Out There all have very good positive takes on religion. And are good stories to boot.

 

Frankly, I imagine it's the fringe books that will most throughly explore religion, in either a positive or negative manner. Though frankly, it's also a lot of fear of missteping on the issue that happens too. I remember hearing (second/thirdhand) about there being some problems with Thor meeting some of the Hindu Gods.

[Chuckg]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

I think that was actually complaints about a Xena episode having some of the Hindu mythology paying a visit.

 

Which was really silly, seeing as how the Hindu pantheon was very well portrayed...

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Well, some writers do seem to have some major issues with religion, especially Christianity -- but then, I'm Christian, so it may well just be that when it happens to my faith I notice it. And there are enough bigots and screwballs out there who use the Good Book as their excuse, so some of it is more than justified. Just not /all/ of it.

 

And some of it is just because most media tends to handle people's religious views very poorly, either dumbing them down with a New Age gloss (check out Indian religion as presented in the animated Pocohantas) or doing a simplistic writes itself 'they're all dumbass fanatics' line.

 

And I do admit to some surprise that most people seem so cool with all the supposed pagan gods running around in some comics universes. Then again, we mostly see Thor, for instance, either in NYC or in Asgard, two places that are kind of odd in their own right.

[BcAugust]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Oh, don't even get me started on how Native religion is handled in comics. While Marvel is the worst offender, I can't really think of any well done ones in comics. *shrugs* But yeah, can see why it becomes a sensitive subject, and in some ways, it's easier just to say "Not going to deal with it."

 

Though, another thought. I haven't read more then a few Golden Age stories about him, but wouldn't the Spectre explore quite a bit of religion?

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Though' date=' another thought. I haven't read more then a few Golden Age stories about him, but wouldn't the Spectre explore quite a bit of religion?[/quote']

 

John Ostrander's run on THE SPECTRE dealt very much - and very well - with religious themes. For that matter, Ostrander did a great job of portarying positive religious characters in SUICIDE SQUAD.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Elementals had a fundamentalist team, but they were a very Iron Age group.

 

In general the idea of a superhero who believes their powers come from God would be far too scary for Marvel/DC to handle.

 

And I consider what has been done to Native mythology no worse than what has been done to Norse mythology with Thor. The main difference is that it's more politically sensitive.

[caris]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Elementals had a fundamentalist team, but they were a very Iron Age group.

 

In general the idea of a superhero who believes their powers come from God would be far too scary for Marvel/DC to handle.

 

And I consider what has been done to Native mythology no worse than what has been done to Norse mythology with Thor. The main difference is that it's more politically sensitive.

Well, Marvel tried it for a while with a revamping of Firebird, but they went back to her original attitude not that long after.

[Lightray]

JLA had an angelic character for a time to replace the missing "winged guy" archetypes while the Hawks were in comic continuity limbo. Don't recall his name, but he was supposed to be from one of the Hosts of Heaven.

 

They also had that stupid Supergirl/Matrix merges with Linda Danvers and becomes a fiery angel plotline.

 

And the Spectre, as mentioned, has pretty much been defined as the Angel of Vengeance.

 

The Sandman and Vertigo runs aren't really mainstream comics, but God and the angelic Host played parts in many of those stories.

[OddHat]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Mystic World has a fairly good treatment of some of these issues.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Read through this and all I could think of was the "Preacher" series of comics...

 

 

I our games we deal heavily with religion in many forms - followers, fanatics, faithful and then the Gods themselves.

 

Though, in our world Gods are merely Paranormals/Mutants who simply had figured out how to gain immesurable power with the catch that it was follower based - the more people who followed you the more power you could tap into and thus the Gods were born - and all the pantheons with them. So people like Zeus were once paranormal humans, that evovled to a higher state over time. I kind of like that approach personally.

[Just A Guy Name]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Elementals had a fundamentalist team' date=' but they were a very Iron Age group.[/quote']The Rapture. All the members were named for different [book: Chapter: Verse] passages from the Bible.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Well, Nightcrawler is catholic, Shadowcat is Jewish. But they don't fight crime as God boy or anything like that. Azureal was an Angel and the JLA fought a renegade angel trying to conquer heaven.

 

The Specter is a spirit of vengance.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

oops no, the JLA guy was Zauriel was he not?

[Pegasus]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

oops no' date=' the JLA guy was Zauriel was he not?[/quote']

 

Right. Azrael ate smurfs.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

and was the insane batman replacement.

[st barbara]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

I developed a character named "Misericorde". a nun with healing powers (and the ability to drain as well as heal) who is the only known super in The Vatican !