H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

[FenrisUlf]

Or, 'do you use real-world historical characters in your universe'? I got the idea from some Ken Hite columns, in which he showed everything you could do with real-world folks in games based on (however loosely) worlds not entirely unlike our own.

 

So I wonder -- have any of you ever done anything with famous real-world folks in game beyond walk-ons or the like?

 

Some ideas I have are:

 

1) Lovecraft and DEMON -- who better to become one of the Inner Circle than the man who revealed the Necronomicon to the world? Besides, most gamers I know of like him, which makes the shock value of first learning that one of your favorite authors isn't only alive, he's gone to the dark side even better.

 

2) ex-Nazis and VIPER -- As I'm planning it, the ex-Nazis who all ran off to Argentina in our world (well, some of them) became members of the post-WW2 VIPER. I could really see Otto Skorzeny training the first VIPER troops (and if he became a member of the Council of Thirty, he could still be around! Otto Skorzeny with supertech and almost a century of experience -- now there's a thought to conjure nightmares with, at least for your PCs) or Hans Kammler (SS General and scientist who worked on the V-2 program, and was very likely involved with the Nazi flying saucers in the Champs Universe) joining VIPER as the first head of their Supertech Research division.

 

That's all I've got right now, though there could be a lot of other folks. If you have compliments, comments, or condemnations -- let me know.

[Crackerjacker]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

Well I'v always had a weakness for the golden age and most of my campaign worlds end up in Nazis and other fascists replacing the Cold War (it's no fun to me). So I have used real life villains as leaders and founders of villainous organizations, because sometimes truth is stranger and more interesting than fiction.

 

However I wouldnt suggest it in all circles, because using Dr.Mengele as a evil immortal superscientist might offend people who had ancestors in the Holocaust and such.

 

I guess that's why people like communism more, because there is less sore feelings in the modern world in America to be brought up by commie villains, whereas Nazis and racism in general is a tender subject to even touch on with despicable villains.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

However I wouldnt suggest it in all circles' date=' because using Dr.Mengele as a evil immortal superscientist might offend people who had ancestors in the Holocaust and such.[/quote']

 

You know, I'm as anti-Nazi as just about anyone, but I have to say, I think anyone who would get offended by a fictional account like you describe above - and in which Mengele or other Nazi leaders are clearly depicted as evill - really needs to chill out. Would they also get offended by the line in HELLBOY that Hitler didn't really die in 1944, but instead in 1956 or whatever?

 

Aside from their very real-life horrific and evil acts, the Nazis have become something of a cultural emblem of a specific type of evil, and one particularly appropriate for comics and pulp fiction at that. Acknowledging that doesn't trivialize the Holocaust, nor does playing on that.

[Chuckg]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

No kidding. I can easily understand how somebody would be offended by a campaign that tried to 'rehabilitate' Hitler's image -- that he wasn't really evil, or that the Holocaust didn't really happen. That's right down there with real-life Holocaust deniers, brrrr.

 

But a campaign making Hitler the bad guy? Ummm... Hitler *WAS* the bad guy!

[proditor]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

In point of fact, I just used Mengele as the main bad guy in a recent supers campaign. I'm still marginally surprised the team's leader didn't try and chuck him in the evac choppers blades, but there ya go.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

However I wouldnt suggest it in all circles, because using Dr.Mengele as a evil immortal superscientist might offend people who had ancestors in the Holocaust and such.

 

I guess that's why people like communism more, because there is less sore feelings in the modern world in America to be brought up by commie villains, whereas Nazis and racism in general is a tender subject to even touch on with despicable villains.

 

Which is why I suggested guys like Skorzeny and Kammler, as they were (a) devoted Nazis but ( had nothing to do with the camps or the Holocaust (Skorzeny was a commando and Kammler a rocket scientist). Using Mengele might be a bit much.

[Chuckg]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

In point of fact, Skorzeny was acquitted at Nuremberg. No war crimes, says they.

 

(Well, he did put on American uniforms to sneak around and do sabotage behind our lines, but when his defense attorney called various OSS personnel to the stand to confess that they used to put on Nazi uniforms and sneak around and do sabotage behind German lines, the prosecution sorta went '... aw, crap. OK, OK, charges dropped!')

[proditor]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

Which is why I suggested guys like Skorzeny and Kammler' date=' as they were (a) devoted Nazis but ( had nothing to do with the camps or the Holocaust (Skorzeny was a commando and Kammler a rocket scientist). Using Mengele might be a bit much.[/quote']I don't know, my group was very happy at the chance to cathartically beat the doc to pulp. In fact, the only annoyance the entire time was that after a fairly long build-up, the team martial artist went first and freakin' one shotted him.

 

Skorzeny was a pretty twisted puppy BTW...

 

But my point is that unless you have someone in your group who you know is going to get upset about it, go for it. All of the groups I've been have had material taliored on what the players can accept/deal with. In this case, a Nazi stomp was okay because it was hard to get someone eviler..more evil? than the guy I used.

[Blue]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

Coincidence that you should post here with your Elvis signature because...

 

Long ago, I had Elvis repel from the top of a fictional High Rise hotel in vegas and perform a swinging move through. As this was many years after his death in R/L, the crowd assumed it was an impersonator. Only he (and the heroes after I gave them a hint) knew otherwise.

[PoorWandering 1]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

I think at least part of the point was that using these particular historical scumbags may cause some folks who or whose families were harmed, by these scumbags in the real world a great deal of emotional pain. I'm not saying don't use the Reich they are flat out the best example of Totalitarian Evil in the western world. It's just using them will hit folks a little harder than if you used a purely fictional org. like Viper. And then there's the whole racism issue. I'm not saying that gaming should avoid issues. Exploring these real and important ideas will lend power and impact to the game. I just feel that as GM or players we need to be aware of this. I personally consider any storyline involving the Holocaust to have the equivilent of an exclamation point warning. It doesn't mean I won't use or play in those storylines but it does mean that i will do the best i can as either a GM or player to give these storylines the respect they deserve. If nothing else a raid on a modern-day Nazi secret base will be a good bit darker that an identical raid on an otherwise identical Viper or Demon base.

Anyway, my $.02

[PoorWandering 1]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

Coincidence that you should post here with your Elvis signature because...

 

Long ago, I had Elvis repel from the top of a fictional High Rise hotel in vegas and perform a swinging move through. As this was many years after his death in R/L, the crowd assumed it was an impersonator. Only he (and the heroes after I gave them a hint) knew otherwise.

 

The king is dead....Long live the king!!

[freakboy6117]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

ive seen really good comc book horror fiction done with real life characters my favorite had to be "Necronauts" which was published in 2000AD a few years back and is available in graphic novel format. which starred if that is the word

Harry Houdini Charles Fort, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and H.P. Lovecraft together they a supernatural apocalypse. really good fun and teh gorgeous art of Frazer Irving

[PoorWandering 1]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

Using real folks works wonders on the suspension of disbelief front. A former hero of mine was hounded for a while to go on the O'Riely factor. Strange game.

[dbsousa]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

Coincidence that you should post here with your Elvis signature because...

 

Long ago, I had Elvis repel from the top of a fictional High Rise hotel in vegas and perform a swinging move through. As this was many years after his death in R/L, the crowd assumed it was an impersonator. Only he (and the heroes after I gave them a hint) knew otherwise.

 

In my world, Elvis is the head of a SHIELD-type organization, after going underground to pursue his life-long dream of being a kung-fu lawman.

 

The agency? Special Agency for the Removal of Terrorism and Crime in the United States

 

The acronym? SPARTACUS

[proditor]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

I think at least part of the point was that using these particular historical scumbags may cause some folks who or whose families were harmed, by these scumbags in the real world a great deal of emotional pain. I'm not saying don't use the Reich they are flat out the best example of Totalitarian Evil in the western world. It's just using them will hit folks a little harder than if you used a purely fictional org. like Viper. And then there's the whole racism issue. I'm not saying that gaming should avoid issues. Exploring these real and important ideas will lend power and impact to the game. I just feel that as GM or players we need to be aware of this. I personally consider any storyline involving the Holocaust to have the equivilent of an exclamation point warning. It doesn't mean I won't use or play in those storylines but it does mean that i will do the best i can as either a GM or player to give these storylines the respect they deserve. If nothing else a raid on a modern-day Nazi secret base will be a good bit darker that an identical raid on an otherwise identical Viper or Demon base.

Anyway, my $.02

Of course. That's why I mentioned that you have to tailor any material like this to the gaming group. The story was suitably dark and one enjoyed by the players because there was zero, nada, nunca, no shades of grey to be seen anywhere. They staged a covert operation, violated a foreign countries sovreignty and attacked a (supposedly) religious compound. I never heard peep one after the mission was laid out beyond "So when do we go get the murdering bastard?"

 

Now, if you have someone who is sensitive to the horrors that were carried out in the name of the 1000 year reich (Or in Milosevic's ethnic dream, or any of a thousand other atrocities) then honestly I'd argue that Mengele may be bad, but Skorzeny is not much better. Anyone connected with the atrocities is a bad idea. And on Skorzeny...Sorry, I hold no truck with those who romaticize him after the fact. He was a bastard of a different stripe, but Otto was a bastard. Anyone who smuggles 500 Nazi higher ups out of Europe to escape prosecution is a bastard. That includes the guys running Project Paper Clip if you want my full 2 cents on the subject.

[Blue]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

When I put Elvis into play I was inspired by the Photo of Nixon & Elvis and a show on TV that was talking about how Nixon had something made up for him because he always wanted to be a lawman. So I thought, "Elvis is alive and working for a secret government agency".

 

However, beyond the one appearance, where his move through sent the target villain into the fountain outside the hotel, I never got to use him again.

[proditor]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

When I put Elvis into play I was inspired by the Photo of Nixon & Elvis and a show on TV that was talking about how Nixon had something made up for him because he always wanted to be a lawman. So I thought, "Elvis is alive and working for a secret government agency".

 

However, beyond the one appearance, where his move through sent the target villain into the fountain outside the hotel, I never got to use him again.

The fact that you never got to use Elvis again has me cryin' like a hound dog.

 

That's an awesome idea BTW, the whole Elvis is a kick-butt Marshall Law dude. I may have to pinch that as opposed to my original idea of using "The King" form the Hero a day thread.

 

Oh, Blue, have you seen Bubba Ho-Tep?

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

This talk of Elvis reminds me of stories I've heard of a Call of Cthulhu scenario in which Elvis returns from the dead as a servant (or avatar, I can't recall which) of Nyarlathotep.

[Blue]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

The fact that you never got to use Elvis again has me cryin' like a hound dog.

 

That's an awesome idea BTW, the whole Elvis is a kick-butt Marshall Law dude. I may have to pinch that as opposed to my original idea of using "The King" form the Hero a day thread.

 

Oh, Blue, have you seen Bubba Ho-Tep?

I have not. I was looking forward to it for a year before it came out, but when it came out, life conspired against me. I'm sure I'll pick up the DVD.

[Metaphysician]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

Well I'v always had a weakness for the golden age and most of my campaign worlds end up in Nazis and other fascists replacing the Cold War (it's no fun to me). So I have used real life villains as leaders and founders of villainous organizations, because sometimes truth is stranger and more interesting than fiction.

 

However I wouldnt suggest it in all circles, because using Dr.Mengele as a evil immortal superscientist might offend people who had ancestors in the Holocaust and such.

 

I guess that's why people like communism more, because there is less sore feelings in the modern world in America to be brought up by commie villains, whereas Nazis and racism in general is a tender subject to even touch on with despicable villains.

 

Which is somewhat nauseating, considering the number of people Communism has killed, and still kills. . .

[proditor]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

I have not. I was looking forward to it for a year before it came out' date=' but when it came out, life conspired against me. I'm sure I'll pick up the DVD.[/quote']

Quick capsule review, it's a good movie, but it's an amazing Elvis. Bruce delivers a performance well worth seeing.

[PoorWandering 1]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

That includes the guys running Project Paper Clip if you want my full 2 cents on the subject.

 

Hear Hear.

The lot of them are accessories after the fact.

[proditor]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

Which is somewhat nauseating' date=' considering the number of people Communism has killed, and still kills. . .[/quote']Funny you should mention that. (Funny weird, not funny ha-ha) I had one group that was primarily Jewish by upbringing/birth and Russian by nationality. They loved any good nazi stomping adventures, but they wanted nothing to do with Stalinesque plots. Their explanation to me was "We heard about the holocaust, we lived through Communism".

[OddHat]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

Quick capsule review' date=' it's a good movie, but it's an amazing Elvis. Bruce delivers a performance well worth seeing.[/quote']

 

Agreed! And also, for any Elvis-as-a-hero-or-villain fan:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=110082&postcount=82

[proditor]

Re: H.P. Lovecraft, Otto Skorzeny, and the CU

 

Agreed! And also, for any Elvis-as-a-hero-or-villain fan:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=110082&postcount=82

I LOVE THAT GUY!! That's who I was talking about a little earlier in this thread. My favorite part of the write up is the descriptors for his powers and that to top it off, it's Fat Elvis.