HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

[Steve Long]

That's right, folx -- it's time for another customer input thread! This time on deck: Hudson City: The Urban Abyss.

 

NOTE: Before you post a recommendation, comment, or question, please read the outline I've posted below. It's not ultra-detailed, but it explains the basic contents of the book. It's a waste of your time and mine for you to suggest things that are clearly already intended as part of the book. You might also want to read the posts already made, so you don't waste your time duplicating something already said.

 

So, anyhow...

 

HC:TUA is our first setting book for Dark Champions. Like MC and VB, it's a city book, but slanted toward the darker, grittier, non-superpowered world of modern-day action-adventure. Here's a rough outline of what the book's going to include:

 

I. History of the city, from its founding in the mid-1700s to the present.

 

II. Lay Of The Land: geography, neighborhoods, landmarks, climate, all that sort of thing. Also covers city government -- its form, prominent personalities, current issues it faces, and so on. Lots and lots of maps -- more than any city book we've done to date.

 

III. A Day In The Life: life in the big city, the rhythm of life in HC, the media (TV, radio, print, etc.), entertainment (clubs, museums, amusement parks, sports, and so on), and subcultures (Business World, Espionage World, Martial World, Religious World, blah blah blah).

 

IV. Law Enforcement: the HCPD in all its gory detail; state law enforcement; federal law enforcements; the judicial and penological system; vigilantes.

 

V. The Underworld: the current state of crime in HC, ranging from mundane organized crime (the Mafia, the yakuza, etc.), to costumed/quirky crimelords like Card Shark and Shango, to other types of crime (robbery crews, the Vice World, and so on).

 

VI. Hot Spots for Cool Heroes: Ten interesting locations, with NPCs, plot seeds, and other tidbits. Perfect spots for gun battles, meeting NPCs, pickin' up chicks, and so on.

 

VII. GMing: running games in HC; the GM's Vault; adversaries and NPCs (including the Card Shark organization, the Harbinger of Justice, a bunch of independent criminals, and lots and lots more fun stuffs).

 

Appendix: an encyclopedic index. This will be formatted like the Encyclopaedia Turakiana -- and like it, will be removed and turned into a free PDF if it runs too long. (That's less likely to happen here, since I don't have to name dozens of fictional kingdoms and what-all, but it's possible.)

 

 

So, that's the overview. What would you like to see in the book?

[Metaphysician]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Information on city politics would be a good idea. Not only does it link in with law enforcement and ( in a setting like this ) organized crime, but it also helps with public relations repercussions for vigilantes ( "Current Mayor takes some bribes for looking the other way, but is otherwise pretty laissez faire. Rival One is completely in the pocket of the Mafia, and would make our lives miserable. Rival Two is honest, but anti-vigilante, and would likely crack down on vigilanteism given the slightest excuse. . . if he lives that long in office." ).

 

Edit: Crap, missed the bit on government. In any case, though, the specific angle of "views on vigilanteism" could be handy nonetheless.

[Mark Rand]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Steve, I like what I see. No doubt I'll buy this bookwhen it comes out.

[Chimpira]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Are you going to cover cults? I would not mind seeing a little bit about gangs, like the location of their turf, their colors and tattoos, and ways to recognize these things. It would be pretty good if the gangs had information about whom their allies or enemies would be and what started the original conflict. As well as what type of crimes they are associated with (drugs, prostitution, shakedown, etc.)

[Edsel]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Hopefully one or two of the maps you mention will show us what some of the subsystems of the city typically look like. In my last DC game there were several occations where the action went under ground (storm sewers, subway tunnels, etc.). It'd be nice to have a simple, typical layout of such a place to build from.

 

A mention of annual cultural events would be nice. When is the annual downtown jazz festival? Does the city have any unique cultural events or gatherings? Most cities do or like to believe they do.

 

Although HC:TUA is not supposed to be a mystical setting, some points of mystical interest would be good. My DC games have featured the supernatural from time to time and having a rundown of places with potential for this sort of thing is nice. The old gothic cemetary, the bell tower, the rumored-to-be haunted house, etc. Nothing fancy (don't want to get the book off topic), perhaps a sidebar.

[OddHat]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Some in-game reason that this place hasn't attracted more four-color supers to simply clean up the non-powered vilains:

 

1) Marduck hates this place, and guides more blatantly paranormal heroes away from it.

 

2) The Dragon loves this place, and pushes more paranormaly powerful heroes out. Those that get in the Dragon corrupts.

 

3) All of the big name Supers, both Good and Evil, go to much richer New York, more magical Philadelphia, or far more prominent Milenium City or Vibora Bay. Only the dregs stay in Hudson City.

 

4) The Ley-Lines surrounding Hudson City leave it in a psychic "dead zone". It's not enough to actually knock visiting flying supers out of the sky, but any paranormal type in Hudson City will find him or herself more prone to ill health, moodiness, anger, and depression. Spells gradually become less reliable, powers slowly start to demand higher END costs and/or activation rolls, Super-Tech starts to fail. Most importantly, falling into a vat of chemicals in Hudson City means getting burned, radioactive spiders die almost instantly, and "Mutants" tend to be born with fewer powers and more deformities. All of this means that very few Supers are native to Hudson CIty, and those that are tend to have much less flashy powers. The HoJ is an excption: even so, he would have been more powerful had he learned how to use his abilities almost anywhere else.

 

5) Some combination of the above.

[Steve Long]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Are you going to cover cults?

 

To the extent appropriate and useful, sure -- that's what "the Religious World" section in the subcultures section will touch on, among other things.

 

Although HC:TUA is not supposed to be a mystical setting, some points of mystical interest would be good.

 

Well, now, let's not confuse "lack of superpowered beings" with "nothing weird ever happens here." Even in the "real world," weird stuff happens all the time. I live just a couple hours' drive from a place called the Devil's Tramping Ground that would qualify as a mystic site in anyone's book. So, sure, the book will have a brief Mystic World section.

 

Hopefully one or two of the maps you mention will show us what some of the subsystems of the city typically look like. In my last DC game there were several occations where the action went under ground (storm sewers, subway tunnels, etc.). It'd be nice to have a simple, typical layout of such a place to build from.

 

To the extent I reasonably can, I certainly intend to. However, there's a limit on how much I can cover here. I have been searching for years -- literally, years -- for a book or books that would describe to me how sewer and/or subway systems are built, what has to be considered, what types there are, blah blah blah. I've looked in bookstores (of all sorts), I've talked to city planners and engineers, I've done everything short of actually suiting up and crawlin' down through a manhole cover. And I've got bupkuss. The best I've been able to come up with is a book called Underneath New York that's so old it's actually of more use for Pulp Hero than DC. If and when better information becomes available, I'll cover the subject in more detail. In the meantime, if any of you are city engineers who can point me in the right direction for reference sources, feel free.

[Metaphysician]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I don't know, from what I know of the HoJ, he wouldn't really run into any low-mana or similar problems, because he's just the standard DC type taken further.

 

IOW, whatever keeps flashy supers away shouldn't obstruct hypercompetent soldiers, martial artists, thieves, assassins, or suchlike.

 

And re: sewer/subway construction- so, the builders *themselves* don't even have useful reference books?? Or do they just not let the uninitiated see them ( hmm, Sewer Builders Union as secret society/cult. . . )??

[OddHat]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I don't know, from what I know of the HoJ, he wouldn't really run into any low-mana or similar problems, because he's just the standard DC type taken further.

 

IOW, whatever keeps flashy supers away shouldn't obstruct hypercompetent soldiers, martial artists, thieves, assassins, or suchlike.

 

So no more teleporting weapons for HoJ? If he still has them, I'd class that as a fairly flashy power.

 

I do agree that whatever is keeping out flashy heroes is not a problem for most Martial Artists and Super-Skill types.

[TheImperialKhan]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'd like to see enough background to be able to use the city in different time periods. Nothing really detailed, just enough to adapt what's in the rest of the book.

 

This is what I did for one of my old JI campaigns to adapt Justice Not Law:

 

Hudson City ca. 1931

 

1.) Delete all references to Supers and Costumed Avengers.

 

2.) Geography: This Hudson City is much smaller and rotated 90 degrees clockwise so that the Stewart River runs North/South through the city. The Northern half is now East while the Southern is now West. The city is 10 miles wide by 7 miles long encompassing some 70 square miles. The population is 3.9 million including the suburbs. Also the great Truman Blvd. project isn't even a dream yet, let alone completed.

 

3.) Politics: Mayor Umstead ran on a pro-Union ticket. The Deputy Mayor is Caucasian and the Personnel Manager is a man George Flynn.

 

4.) Neighborhoods: The Pierpoint neighborhood doesn't exist, it's still the warehouse district.

 

5.) Police: The following HCPD squads do not as yet exist - Citywide Task Force, Special Weapons And Tactics, Vigilante Activities Investigation Squad, and the Youth Crime Task Force. Vice & Narcotics is just Vice and includes the Prohibition Enforcement Group. Most police officers patrol foot beats, but the city has about 200 radio-equipped Prowl Cars manned by 2 officers each as mobile patrols and fast response units. The Police Call Box is in evidence. The force consists of approximately 3,000 officers. The city contains 8 Police Districts, each of which is divided into 5 precincts. There are about 50 men assigned to each Precinct House, 75 to each District Station and 400 to the new Police Headquarters on Centre and Fourth.

 

6.) Espionage: Replace Sayid El-Ghazali with Comrade Colonel Ivan Ivanovitch Goraskov, an NKVD Officer of similar capabilities.

 

7.) Martial World: Delete all and replace with numerous neighborhood gyms.

 

8.) Mercenary: The contacts points are mostly basement speakeasies otherwise unchanged.

 

9.) Military: Wendover is an Army Air Corps base about 20 miles North of the city. Delete Fort Houke and replace with the US Naval Base at New London about 30 miles to the East.

 

10.) Mystic: The Pilkenton Murders took place in 1903 otherwise unchanged.

 

11.) Professional: The International Finance Bank was backed by Russian money and controlled by Comintern.

 

12.) Medical: the specializations of the Doctors have changed as follows; Amory - Blood, Armstrong - Psychiatry, Green - Thoracic Surgery, Manzanetti - Toxicology, Paulson - Orthopedics and Reichart - Neurosurgery. In addition all are now male.

 

13.) Religion: Reverend Pick has almost no support except for a small group of rabid followers. The Cults and the Fringers are almost unknown.

 

14.) Technology: Gablesoft and Sewell Computing Laboratories do not exist. Albemarle Laboratories is a biology and agricultural lab, Armbruster Industries is an aviation firm, Fordham ChemTech is a chemical and electronics company and Henderson Electrics is an electronics firm.

 

15.) Commerce and Industry: Ben Berkley's business is radio and newspapers. Duchess Industries, Quilann International and the Keller Corporation are all manufacturing firms. The chain stores are gone replaced with the appropriate small stores and shops. The Malls don't exist but real world department stores Macy's, Gimbels', Filenes' and Jordan Marsh compete with Boudreau's. In addition there is also Walker Global Enterprises a major commercial/industrial corporation based in Hudson City (see #24 for more information).

 

16.) Media: Replace the Sun and the Inquisition with the Hudson City Express in newspapers. Delete all the radio stations and use the TV stations as Radio in there place. Also change the TV reporters to Radio.

 

17.) Sports: Of the Professional sports teams only the Hudson City Heroes Baseball team exists at this time although there is talk of a Football team in the future. The Hudson City Fighting Arts Tournament is a boxing Tournament instead and the Tour de Hudson does not exist.

 

18.) Nightclubs: All of these are now basement speakeasies and subject to raids. The music at Dante's Inferno is Big Band. The Skyline Club is a private club it's membership dues are sky-high but as a private club it can legally serve alcohol to members. The Neon Samurai is gone replaced by a casino called The Brass Ring. Caribbean Karma has been replaced by The Black Pearl (aka Ham-Hand's) from Adventurer's Club issue 20.

 

19.) Music: Delete all and replace with real world Jazz, R&B, Big Band and Crooners. For example - Louis Armstrong, Glenn Miller and Bing Crosby.

 

20.) Fine Arts: Add about six Movie Theaters the largest and most opulent of which is the Constitution Theater on the corner of 4th and East Jackson owned by Ben Berkley.

 

21.) Museums: The Gangland Museum has been replaced by the Hudson City Museum of American History.

 

22.) Parks: The parks of 1930 have not been vandalized and turned into war zones. MLK is still known as Abercrombie Park.

 

23.) The Empire Club, that well-known haunt for adventurers, does have a branch in Hudson City on 20th Avenue near Le Mastre Park.

 

24.) When Walker Global Enterprises was incorporated in 1894 the company was already well over a century old. Initially founded in Worcester MA by Joshua Walker as Walker Shipping and Transportation the company, which had made a fortune in privateering during the Revolutionary War, was moved to Hudson City in 1805 by Joshua's son, Jeremiah Walker. Emil Hudson had found himself short of cash in the founding of Hudson City and approached Jeremiah for the money. The request came at a time when Walker had been looking to relocate to a coastal city. A deal was worked out which gave Jeremiah several large plots of prime land in and around the city in exchange for his financial backing. The Walkers moved to Hudson City (although a strong presence in Worcester was maintained) in 1805. The company has grown in fits and spurts according to fate, history, and the whims of the current president. In 1827 Jeremiah's eldest son, Louis Walker, founded the Hudson City Express (the city's biggest newspaper), and 8 years later he also founded the Worcester and Hudson City Railroad. In 1877 Clint Walker (who would one day be Governor) started up Walker Engineering, and just 3 years later Premium Oil and Gas. After 2 terms in Congress Clint returned to Hudson City and founded Coronet Publishing in 1891. It was under the auspices of Gov. Walker's son, Daniel Walker II that the company expanded into motor vehicles with the founding of Walker Automotive in 1909. Almost 20 years later Daniel went out to LA and American Artists film studio was founded. The Walkers were extremely wealthy by this time, so much so that they were able, not merely to weather the great depression but actually to profit from it, by buying up the massive numbers of mortgages from the failing banks. U.S. Realty was formed in 1929 to hold and administer the mortgages. The Corporation is headquartered at 13050 North Madison Street. Although Daniel Walker II is still Chairman of the Board much of the day-to-day running of WGE is done by his younger son Richard Walker. Daniel's eldest son is the well-known adventurer and war hero Major Preston Walker who has led expeditions across Africa, Asia and South America. The elder Walker is pressuring his son to settle down but the Major shows no signs of heeding his advice yet.

 

Obviously there's some of my campaign material in there but it gives you an idea of what I'm talking about and it really isn't very long at all.

[MitchellS]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'd like to see a small section which discusses how to use Hudson City as part of the main Champions Universe. Information on how to use it in a 350 point game rather than just a standard Dark Champions game.

 

My current character, Midknight, is a 485 point Champions character who works out of Gotham City, which is not treated as a Dark Champions city in our campaign but just a dark city. I could see many gamers who might be interested in playing in such a dark city rather than the shining Millennium City using standard Champions characters. A page or more on how to do that in the GM's section could be invaluable to many of us who have no real interest in Dark Champions.

[Metaphysician]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

So no more teleporting weapons for HoJ? If he still has them, I'd class that as a fairly flashy power.

 

I do agree that whatever is keeping out flashy heroes is not a problem for most Martial Artists and Super-Skill types.

 

AFAIK, the cosmic gun pool is getting replaced by a more normal gadget pool.

 

Re: cross compatibility, the biggest obstacle IMHO is Speed values.

[OddHat]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

AFAIK' date=' the cosmic gun pool is getting replaced by a more normal gadget pool.[/quote']

 

Coolness.

 

Re: cross compatibility, the biggest obstacle IMHO is Speed values.

 

Yes, that's a major issue. I've always used the house rule that speeds past 4 stem from some kind of paranormal gift.

[Metaphysician]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Well, the easy way to handle it is to figure the first 10-20 points of NCM-occupied points go into Spd. OTOH, that only works for characters with characteristics in the legendary range who are spending extra points on them.

 

Then again, those characters are probably the only ones who can justify that high of Speed, anyway. . .

[Steve Long]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Folks, I'd rather not take time in this thread to discuss the ins and outs of how characters are built, or how they stack up against Champions characters, or what have you. That's a topic for another thread, which you're more than welcome to start if you like. I'd rather keep this focused on what you'd like to see in the book. Thanx!

[Steve Long]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'd like to see enough background to be able to use the city in different time periods. Nothing really detailed, just enough to adapt what's in the rest of the book.

 

There'll be about as much historical discussion as you get in MC and VB -- certainly nothing as detailed what you're describing. I have too much else to fit into this tome. To see what HC looks like in other time periods, you'll just have to wait until we publish Hudson City 1935 and Hudson City 2060.

[OddHat]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Money Matters in Hudson City - I'd like to know who the major companies are, how they make their money, and something about who they employ. Anything that could give a plot idea or two. Are there a few big pharamceutical companies that could lead to plots involving the development of new drugs, both legal and not? Are any companies bringing in a lot of Korean, Chinese or Japanese workers, leading to plots involving Asian mobsters? Also, ethnic details. Is there a Little Saigon / Little Bombay / Little Moscow somewhere in Hudson city? Somplace for your Baba Yaga themed DC Witch to build a network of neighborhood contacts?

 

An "Urban Legends of Hudson City" section would be a great plot-seed resource.

[TheImperialKhan]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

There'll be about as much historical discussion as you get in MC and VB -- certainly nothing as detailed what you're describing. I have too much else to fit into this tome. To see what HC looks like in other time periods' date=' you'll just have to wait until we publish [i']Hudson City 1935[/i] and Hudson City 2060.

 

And when will that be?

 

BTW I wasn't describing it. That was all of it, the whole adaptation. I was talking about taking the material for the present day and making minor changes to use the exact same material in say the 1890s. I didn't mean to imply that you should redo everything for the different time periods.

 

Not that I'd object if you wanted to do that.

[Eosin]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

As mentioned, an "urban legends" side bar running a few pages would be great.

 

I would like to see the new book keep as much of the old DC as possible. We had a long standing game in HC and I would be a little disappointed if Frank "Fedora" and others disappeared.

 

I would be trese chic if you used The Machine and Retro from Hudson City Blues at least in passing. Other groups like Reverend M and the Pack are also items to mention - it will make those of us who played in those games feel like our characters were part of the world.

 

IT sounds like the book will be in the vein of JNL which is just fine with me.

 

That is my 2 pennies.

[Steve Long]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

A great deal of the stuff from JNL will definitely carry forward. Not all of it, certainly, but most of it still works just fine.

[Vondy]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I want to see a giant billboard that tallies vigilante murders, which is of course run by a rabid group of anti-vigilante political activists who can't be reasoned with and whose rhetoric is truly scary indeed. Perhaps the leading vigilantes have their own billboards. And maybe some local politician is on board with them. Another cool thing would be for Hudson City to have an "underground" newspaper that featured news items and opinion on vigilantes, which would be just as bad as the anti-vigilante group, but coming from the other side. It could also include interviews on recent events allowing the vigilante to "get their side of the story" out. Maybe it would be run by one of the vigilantes themselves. Of course, in the modern day, it would likely be a website whose servers were changed regularly, or an internet newsletter.

[Vondy]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

A rudimentary sewer and subsystem map would be nice. Maybe Hudson City has an "underground city" similar to the one in Seattle (the ruins of the old city they built over after the great Seattle fire). An all but abandoned industrial area on the outskirts of town could be useful, too (old steel mills, chemical plants, and whatnot).

[humantorch101]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Echo previous posters as to why the 4 color CU does not appear in Hudson City and extensive options and sidebars to have it interact more if the GM wishes to.

 

The Underworld - ensure it is extensive, murky and complex. Would love to see maps of the "turf" controlled by different gang elements and nationalities such as which mafia families control which district, where are the Russians making inroads, neutral areas etc.

 

Weird Stuff - Conspiracy rumours, supernatural strangeness, and just out of left field weird. Not to much but great for a chnage of pace.

 

rgds

Torch

[JmOz]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Echo previous posters as to why the 4 color CU does not appear in Hudson City and extensive options and sidebars to have it interact more if the GM wishes to.

 

The Underworld - ensure it is extensive, murky and complex. Would love to see maps of the "turf" controlled by different gang elements and nationalities such as which mafia families control which district, where are the Russians making inroads, neutral areas etc.

 

Weird Stuff - Conspiracy rumours, supernatural strangeness, and just out of left field weird. Not to much but great for a chnage of pace.

 

rgds

Torch

 

I want to second this. I think that if you are trying to do the unified world that this is going to be required. Also I would like to have some notes for cheering up the place (running it more in line with B:TAS) & Darkening it further (for a truley depressing place).

 

Also character build suggestions (to run street vigilante's use low powered supers and no powers with a visible F/X unless via a foci)

[keithcurtis]

Re: HUDSON CITY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Lots and lots of maps -- more than any city book we've done to date.

 

glee!

 

Keith "never have found good sewer references either" Curtis