DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

[AndyM]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

One thing I would like is a bad guy organization that is exactly what it appears to be.

 

Thus far:

Viper is basically a front.

Demon is basically a front.

 

The reason for this trend: DOJ is basically a front.

 

Whoops - probably shouldn't have said that out loud.

 

Andy

[allen]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

Hey all... just a quick note to say thanks for the kind words. DEMON was a lot of fun to write, and I'm glad people are getting a kick out of it.

[Eosin]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

I just finished my read of DEMON tonight and will try to get a review posted between my shifts in the ER this weekend.

 

Luther Black and the plot is knockdown 100% fantastic. DEMON is not a front it is a front for a front for another front that is the front for Luther Black. I wonder if most PCs could ever even pierce the triple and quadrupile duplicity that surrounds the squirmy little worm.

 

QUESTION FOR ALLEN,

 

What organs can a sacrafice donate?

 

And concrats on some very sickening recruitment methods - my favorites were the Soup Kitchens and the Runaway Hotline. Only a demented mind could could come up with that.

[allen]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

 

QUESTION FOR ALLEN,

 

What organs can a sacrafice donate?

 

And concrats on some very sickening recruitment methods - my favorites were the Soup Kitchens and the Runaway Hotline. Only a demented mind could could come up with that.

 

Well most folk can always spare a kidney, and a sacrifice can spare two...

[Eosin]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

Well most folk can always spare a kidney' date=' and a sacrifice can spare two... [/quote']

 

I assume those would be extracted just prior to the sacrafice? You have to have a beating heart to donate.

 

BTW this book is hard to review - I am about halfway through the review but it is like telling a great RPG anecdote - lay it on too heavy and people go "ya, right" but skimp on the details and people scratch their heads and wonder what was so cool about that.

[allen]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

I assume those would be extracted just prior to the sacrafice? You have to have a beating heart to donate.

 

Well, you know, those beating hearts should be taken out during the sacrifice...

 

On a more serious note, here's a website about organ donation. It discusses the facts about donation, including what organs are viable donations (and somewhere on that site is a listing of some urban myths... which are little less mythic in a world with things like DEMON running around... the bit about a recipiant taking on the characteristics of the organ donor can make for a fun hook for a DEMON adventure.)

 

http://www.organdonor.gov/

 

BTW this book is hard to review - I am about halfway through the review but it is like telling a great RPG anecdote - lay it on too heavy and people go "ya, right" but skimp on the details and people scratch their heads and wonder what was so cool about that.

 

Thanks for taking the time to review the book!

[FenrisUlf]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

Yes, this book is magnificent. Kudos to Mister Thomas.

 

BTW, whoever did the opening fiction bit where Luther Black wanders around a mystic Paris, hearing and seeing sights from all through its history --congratulations. It reads like a Tim Powers story.

 

I also like the different kinds of magic for Morbanes. They've gotten truly nasty since the last edition. And as for plot seeds, I think maybe I can combine my 'vengeful revenant rising from the dead of Millenium City' with the idea by the MC Morbane to raise the dead as his personal zombie horde to good effect...

[MitchellS]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

I was a little surprised to find that Millennium City was not a DEMON hotspot. With 60,000 deaths from one catastrophe I would think there would be a great deal of resonant spiritual pain and suffering in the city that would draw DEMON to it.It's almost a perfect place for a "Hanged Man," from Astro City, or Crow to develope.

[SirViss]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

I was a little surprised to find that Millennium City was not a DEMON hotspot. With 60' date='000 deaths from one catastrophe I would think there would be a great deal of resonant spiritual pain and suffering in the city that would draw DEMON to it.It's almost a perfect place for a "Hanged Man," from Astro City, or Crow to develope.[/quote']

 

It's not a hotspot right now, because the Champions apparently took out the local Demonhame. And that only happened because Luther Black let it be known that it was there and who was involved. It definetely can become a hotspot (and will in my campaign).

 

Though i do admit that before it's destruction, the local 'Hame didn't seem to take advantage of the massive number of deaths that occured in 1992.

 

Hmmm, i might have to use this as a plot when next July 23rd rolls by. Large number of superhumans concentrated in MC to pay homage to the sacrifice of past heroes, when suddenly those same heroes return! But wait, there is something not quite right with them. AAAAAAAHHHH!

[MitchellS]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

Hmmm' date=' i might have to use this as a plot when next July 23rd rolls by. Large number of superhumans concentrated in MC to pay homage to the sacrifice of past heroes, when suddenly those same heroes return! But wait, there is something not quite right with them. AAAAAAAHHHH! [/quote']

I don't GM or game in the Champions Universe but I was thinking something along the same lines. We could have a real "Army of Darkness" rising at Takofane's call.

[Metaphysician]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

IIRC, the local Demonhame got ratted out by Black because it got caught up in the Coin Collector's power schemes.

 

As for why its not tapped as a mystic power source more, maybe because so many of the deaths were that of heroes ( super or otherwise ) dying *as* heroes, that while the site has mystic resonances, they aren't dark enough for DEMON's usage.

[SirViss]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

IIRC, the local Demonhame got ratted out by Black because it got caught up in the Coin Collector's power schemes.

...

 

I (of course) knew that, I just didn't want to give too many spoilers away.

 

And as to why the local mystic power hasn't been exploited, you have a good point. But that won't stop me from using it as a plot device.

[AlHazred]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

I'd venture that Black might be aware of the "tainted" nature of the energies in MC. On the other hand, an ambitious Morbane might not, and might decide to use this "great, untapped source of necromantic power."

[Lord Liaden]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

You know, with the Kings of Edom, the Dragon, Tyrannon the Conqueror and Takofanes out there, the Mystic World in the CU is a very scary place. Lovecraft would feel right at home.

 

I wonder if there are any godly entities on our side?

[OddHat]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

You know, with the Kings of Edom, the Dragon, Tyrannon the Conqueror and Takofanes out there, the Mystic World in the CU is a very scary place. Lovecraft would feel right at home.

 

I wonder if there are any godly entities on our side?

 

Marduc, God of Cities, has been guiding heroes. He's anti-democratic and thinks that Supers should be benevolent God-Kings, but he is on Humanity's side.

 

The Nagas are on our side and quite useful as plot devices, and Adrian Vandeleur (sp), which in a way puts all of the non-insane members of the Vandeleur familly into a pro-human mystic group. We also have the Council.

 

The forces of Ellysium are on humanity's side as well, and most of the Gods of the Land of Legends, and most of Babylon, even if they haven't been detailed.

 

Villain write-ups are just more useful in Champions than Hero write-ups. Still, I've been thinking of starting a Mystical World thread; got my old copy of the Circle & METE out and everything.

[MitchellS]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

Marduc, God of Cities, has been guiding heroes. He's anti-democratic and thinks that Supers should be benevolent God-Kings, but he is on Humanity's side.

 

The Nagas are on our side and quite useful as plot devices, and Adrian Vandeleur (sp), which in a way puts all of the non-insane members of the Vandeleur familly into a pro-human mystic group. We also have the Council.

 

The forces of Ellysium are on humanity's side as well, and most of the Gods of the Land of Legends, and most of Babylon, even if they haven't been detailed.

 

Villain write-ups are just more useful in Champions than Hero write-ups. Still, I've been thinking of starting a Mystical World thread; got my old copy of the Circle & METE out and everything.

St.Albertus Magnus, Odun, and Ushas would also fit the bill as being on humanity's side.

[Koshka]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

I assume those would be extracted just prior to the sacrafice? You have to have a beating heart to donate.

 

Nah, just summon up a minor spirit before the sacrifice and tell it to start invisible mystic CPR as soon as the guy on the altar croaks . That should keep everything in reasonable shape for transplant.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

This book finally showed in the local store where I buy game stuff. I've got some fun, cool reading ahead of me, sounds like.

[allen]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

Yes, this book is magnificent. Kudos to Mister Thomas.

 

BTW, whoever did the opening fiction bit where Luther Black wanders around a mystic Paris, hearing and seeing sights from all through its history --congratulations. It reads like a Tim Powers story.

 

Hey thanks... high praise, indeed.... (please, call me Allen... not that old yet )

 

The idea for time-traveling while walking city streets actually came from Jack Finney's Time and Again. I tried to make it spookier than presented in that novel, but I've always liked the idea.

 

As for Tim Powers... SPOILERS, btw.

 

The idea of locating the Thirteenth Floor in Las Vegas came to me while re-reading Last Call, and for one possible idea concerning the cause of DEMON's problems in Russia, check out Declare. (As for Tim Powers's writing in general, if anyone who enjoyed DEMON hasn't read anything by him, I highly recommend his novels.)

[Eosin]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

ENWORLD REVIEW

 

DEMON: Servants of Darkness

Written by Allen Thomas -128 pg Trade Paperback, Perfect Bound, Black & White.

 

This is a campaign sourcebook for the Hero System detailing the enigmatic occult group from whom the book gets its title. The book is best used in modern or super heroic genres but with some modifications can make an excellent addition to a fantasy campaign. This is a comp copy and was not playtested. Again, this is not a d20 book but is for use with the Hero System but as many sourcebooks it is easily adapted to other rules engines.

 

Overview: DEMON is a twisted crawl into the belly of a fantastical black magic cult set in modern times. The themes are occasionally mature but handled in a tasteful fashion. The DEMON organization has been around through previous editions of the Hero System but this is the first definitive treatment that the popular mystics have received. This book is well written and executed to create a powerful mystical organization whose goals could threaten all of humanity. Impossibly complex, the organization of DEMON is built to keep your players guessing and on the seat of their pants.

 

Layout & Design: The cover art is well done in the comic style of Storn Cook. Interior artwork is standard for Hero which is to say that it is passable but not much more than that. A few pieces really stood out as above par on pages 11, 45, & 148 - unfortunately they were not signed. The maps were done by Keith Curtis and are excellent. The layout is Hero System standard and the book seems densely packed with text, more so than usual for Hero Books.

 

Chapter One

First, let me say the first 40 pages of the book deal almost exclusively with the power behind DEMON: Luther Black. The sections read like a novel rather than a character write up. Luther Black was born on leap year 270 years ago and thanks to his gypsy mother will live to the ripe old age of 280 – in other words time is running out. To use DEMON, the GM needs to understand Luther Black – his powers, weaknesses, and his visions. The author builds this master villain and his plan with exceeding exactness that allows a GM to intersect his game at various points and leaves the ultimate success or failure in the hands of individual games – to the reader it is not at all clear if Luther Black will succeed in his planned apotheosis or if he has already failed.

 

From the great wars, to the depression, and into the nineties, we follow Luther Black and thus DEMON as the organization grows and changed into the Byzantine cult that it finds itself in modern times. Various sidebars and plot-points are used throughout the book that provides hooks for using DEMON during other times. As mentioned, the back-story reads more like a depraved novella than an introduction to a gaming book.

 

Chapter Two – Demonic overview.

This short section is invaluable, providing a concise breakdown of who knows what. It details the goals of the organization and the methods to pursue those goals. This section also provides the reasoning behind the various teaching styles DEMON uses to recruit new members. One of the many ingenious ideas in this book is that DEMON could care less about your personal religious beliefs; the organization recruits Satanists, Kali Thugs, and nihilists with equal abandon. I get the feeling that this section will see lots of reference if you use DEMON in your game.

 

Chapter Three – The Leadership of DEMON

Luther Black starts out this chapter under his assumed name, the Edomite but quickly we start to get into other facets of the organizations. The Inverted Trinity serves as Black’s personal enforcers who remain unknown to the larger organization. These are spooky creatures, less human than Blacks own shriveled husk. Each of the Inverted Trinity has been possessed by a malign entity or been corrupted into a malign entity – powerful and utterly ruthless they are foes that should inspire fear even among the super heroic.

 

The Inner Circle are beings corrupted by Qliphothic energies (Qliphoth are negative cosmic energies equating with the ten positive Sephiroth – Gnostic/Hebrew forces of good, at least as far as I was able to figure out.). They run the operations that keep DEMON in check and are all suitably evil. The majority of them seem to spring right out of some Chuthulu inspired nightmare but the final member of the Inner Circle stands out as a cut above. Dyer Vander Bleek is a powerful occultist and infernal trafficker but somehow you feel sorry for this poor fellow who is both out of his league and totally fails to comprehend the situation that he has found himself in.

 

The Edomite, The Inverted Trinity, and the Inner Circle are the powerhouses behind DEMON and all strive towards their own, occasionally conflicting goals. Many of these characters are a match for super heroic characters and bring to the table unusual threats and powers that the heroes may not be prepared to face, something sure to inspire fear and loathing at any game table.

 

Chapter Four – Mephistophelean Evil

When the players speak of DEMON, odds are that they will be referencing the characters and groups presented in this chapter – wholly unaware of the greater evil of the previous chapter. However, this chapter does more than just present villain stats. The greatest parts of the DEMON source book are in the details and this section provides great details without becoming a manual.

 

The chapter leads in with a section on recruitment. The author is well researched and laid out some practices that could have been taken from a real world cult, most of them are reprehensible. One of the examples of active recruitment occurs in support groups after all “recovering alcoholics, drug users, persons with cancer or who have a loved one with cancer, people who have been recently divorced or lost a child, people who feel they lack confidence or any other failing – all of these are susceptible to DEMON’s pitch.â€

 

The nuisances of the chapter are something to be experienced rather than explained so I will leave it at that.

 

This chapter also covers the various “levels†of initiation: Brethren, Initiate, & Morbane. Each level has various archetypes from “the victim†to the “faithful servant of evil†that provide dozens of hooks for a games master.

 

Two special types of rank and file DEMON members deserve to be called out – the Demonbound & the Supervillians. The Demonbound are a cunning addition to the DEMON stable that allow for the creation of one-shot villains to challenge the players and come with a number of templates that can be used to make them interesting and less predictable. The Demonbound, as the name implies, are people who are possessed by a demon through a ritual, sometimes these are DEMON agents and sometimes they are hapless bystanders which makes wanton slaughter of the Demonbound and difficult decision. The super-villain section illustrates the various methods for creating supers who are aligned with DEMON (Qliphothic corruption, magical item based villain, and possessed villain).

 

Chapter Five – The Demonhames

This is a short chapter detailing commonalities in the various bases used by DEMON and then two example Demonhames. The example Demonhames come with useful maps and neither of the bases is ultra-powerful making them perfect places for your heroes to get their feet wet in the scum filled pool that is DEMON.

 

Following the examples is a discussion of DEMON around the world – while DEMON is a worldwide cult they don’t always fare as well as they do in the United States or the West in general. There are some great teasers for DMs to work with in this section.

 

Chapter six – Profane Regalia

What evil cult worth the name does not posses some malignant artifacts of bygone evil? This section details a few dozen items used to empower the Morbanes and their lackeys.

 

Chapter Seven – Gamemaster’s Demonic Designs

This section covers everything that is left – the anatomy of a satanic ritual, demonic trappings, hooks & black magic plots, and finally DEMON in other genres. If I had to pick on a section, this would be the section. It is fairly skimpy and many GMs could use the extra uumph when it comes to getting the DEMON ball rolling at their table. Still, the section is not bad.

 

Summation – or Wow, you made it!

 

The negative – the Inner Circle is interesting but a few of the members need tweaking or could have had more expanded write-ups (Coin Collector, I am looking at you). The Profane Regalia section is technically correct but seemed uninspired when viewed against the rest of the book. Finally, I had mentioned that the final chapter seemed a tad anemic. These are minor quips more than actual flaws and I really had to stretch to come up with these.

 

The Positive - DEMON is an excellent sourcebook for most genres but will require more work for anything that is not a modern superhero or action style campaign. The book is well written and entertaining to read, always a significant bonus in my book. Finally, the topic has the ability to stray into the childishly perverted but the author does a fine job of managing to convey the depravity of the organization while keeping the books overall rating to PG-13.

 

Randy Madden

Eosin the Red

[Eosin]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

[sNIPPED] On a more serious note' date=' here's a website about organ donation. [/quote']

 

Yeah, I have assisted on a few donations as a nurse. I think that just makes me a stick in the mud as far as the topic goes. I imagine it is something like a meterologist wanting to point out quirks about RPG weather systems. "Dude, it is a game!"

[FenrisUlf]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

Hey thanks... high praise, indeed.... (please, call me Allen... not that old yet )

 

The idea for time-traveling while walking city streets actually came from Jack Finney's Time and Again. I tried to make it spookier than presented in that novel, but I've always liked the idea.

 

As for Tim Powers... SPOILERS, btw.

 

The idea of locating the Thirteenth Floor in Las Vegas came to me while re-reading Last Call, and for one possible idea concerning the cause of DEMON's problems in Russia, check out Declare. (As for Tim Powers's writing in general, if anyone who enjoyed DEMON hasn't read anything by him, I highly recommend his novels.)

 

Allen, you deserve that praise. If Tim Powers were a comic book or RPG writer, he'd be you.

 

And I'm glad to see I'm not the only guy who thought of LAST CALL while reading about Luther Black looking for the Holy Grail in Vegas (hmm, but can he use the casino signs to summon the archetypes?). And the description of the Fountain of Youth in ON STRANGER TIDES, as well as of voodoo, sure sounds like it would fit in well with Vibora Bay. And maybe a certain pirate captain slash hunsi kanzo might have survived down to the 20th century, after all.

 

And I really like the idea that the DECLARE djinn might be the cause of DEMON's troubles in Russia.

 

Though I would like to know just how one should quantify a DECLARE djinn in HG terms. For those who don't know the book, here's a best-I-can-remember quote detailing the djinn:

 

"The djinn are an earlier and in many ways more primitive form of life than man. Djinn thoughts are kinetic macroscopic events, wind and fire and sandstorms gross and literal: for a djinn, to think a thing it is to make it happen, and to be reminded of it is to make it happen all over again. Djinn make no distinction between sizes, only shapes -- they make models of human skulls the size of boulders, and castles too small for ants."

 

Djinn in the book are creatures of constant movement, seeming to posess no true bodies of their own but to find form in waterspouts and firestorms. They can communicate as well, through birds such as parrots, or rioting mobs or screaming lunatics. Whatever they use must be in constant, endless motion for them to use it, and it will probably die from the stress of 'feeling' the djinn in its mind. (Though their own language is formed by constant transformation of their bodies, and they find humans to be somewhat autistic.)

 

Oh yes -- the djinn despise humans, except when they're eating them.

[AlHazred]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

The DEMON organization has been around through previous editions of the Hero System but this is the first definitive treatment that the popular mystics have received.

I'd have to respectfully disagree with the author, here. DEMON was the subject of Organization Book 2 for old Champions, Primus and DEMON; while somewhat anemic by modern standards, the Organization Books were considered to be "definitive treatments." The organization also received a decent writeup in the 4th edition supplement Classic Organizations, again a "definitive treatment." This is the latest such definitive treatment, and undoubtedly the best.

[MitchellS]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

I'd have to respectfully disagree with the author' date=' here. DEMON was the subject of Organization Book 2 for old Champions, [i']Primus and DEMON[/i]; while somewhat anemic by modern standards, the Organization Books were considered to be "definitive treatments." The organization also received a decent writeup in the 4th edition supplement Classic Organizations, again a "definitive treatment." This is the latest such definitive treatment, and undoubtedly the best.

I think by "definitive" the poster was referring to expanded pages and information. Organization Book 2 devoted about 15 pages to DEMON. Classic Organizations had 19 pages. While that is information it hardly scratches the surface of the new 160 page DEMON book.

[AlHazred]

Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers)

 

I'll grant you that the current book covers more, but it's only definitive by currents standards. According to the standards of the time, those previous works were, essentially, all the essential information it was felt that GMs needed to run the organization. Who knows? In the future, we might not consider a guide definitive unless it listed at least half a dozen online sources (with one "Central" wiki), an even dozen adventures, and a product line. Tastes change.

 

I do like the book, though, don't get me wrong. I think it's much better than we had any right to expect.