OddHat Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 SPOILER FREE ZONE Allen Thomas rocks. This is a great book, and a great asset to your campaign if you have any interest at all in including Magic and mad cults in your game world. The section on recruitment is great fun, the many types of demon agents and morbanes offer a terrific source of NPCs and minor villains (and have great potential for character origins), and both the quality of the writing and art are consistently high. A very good buy. More to come later, including nit-pics. If anyone else would like to chime in, please do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) One question here: Does it say why DEMON worships and tries to invoke the Kings of Edom when, if said beings were to appear, they would literally destroy the entire world? I can't imagine that these guys have a lot of friends, even among the evil cultist set... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) My understanding from the playtest document is that most members do not even understand that the Kings of Edom are behind DEMON. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpira Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) The book is great. I have a few rservations about some of the art but they can not please everyone all the time. The content is outstanding. Allen Thomas is very good and I highly recommend that anyone that hasn't, to pick up his module Shades of Black. As for what people know about the Kings of Edom, the majority of people believe that they will be rewarded or can use these entities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Squirrel Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) Does it go into any details on the DEMON event that VIPER got tangled in on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpira Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) Does it go into any details on the DEMON event that VIPER got tangled in on? Yes, it does. page 19. It gives a lot of info about what was going down in Boston and why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) Having read it, the full backstory of Luther Black and DEMON is one of the most awesomely epic multi-generational comics sagas I can remember. And it is like in the top five, *ever*, of Supreme Mastermind Plans. The sheer scope of it... wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) Having read it, the full backstory of Luther Black and DEMON is one of the most awesomely epic multi-generational comics sagas I can remember. And it is like in the top five, *ever*, of Supreme Mastermind Plans. The sheer scope of it... wow. It is an incredible plan. I'm still waiting for the book to arrive but I loved the manuscript. It is easily my favorite Champions book published so far. Excellent work Allen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted October 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) One question here: Does it say why DEMON worships and tries to invoke the Kings of Edom when, if said beings were to appear, they would literally destroy the entire world? I can't imagine that these guys have a lot of friends, even among the evil cultist set... The Kings of Edom thing is handled well. Demon is structured a lot like most real-world cults: The marks at the bottom have no idea that anything is going on. To them it's just a cult / millitia / twelve-step program / biker-gang / whatever. One level deeper in they think of themselves as just another criminal group. Go up to the level of Initiates, Brothers and Morbanes, and they don't know anything about the multiverse other than what they are taught from above, which is a mix of truth and lies; they really do think that they can control the Qipthotic entities that they sometimes deal with, that those entities are just another source of power. Only the top levels of the Demon understand anything about what is really going on, and they still think that they will be given power and spared, even if they know that their underlings will not. Of course the Kings will probably spare no one, but meglomania is part of the resume for cult leaders. Other actors in the mystic world who understand anything about what's really going on despise Demon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humantorch101 Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) Can anyone give any details of the books contents, especially new characters, both supervillain types and the inner circle itself? thks Torch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpira Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) Having read it, the full backstory of Luther Black and DEMON is one of the most awesomely epic multi-generational comics sagas I can remember. And it is like in the top five, *ever*, of Supreme Mastermind Plans. The sheer scope of it... wow. That's the truth. I read the manuscript first and still could not wait to get the book. DEMON is a major factor now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted October 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) Can anyone give any details of the books contents, especially new characters, both supervillain types and the inner circle itself? thks Torch I planned to complain at length about the inner circle and supervillains later, with spoilers. The very short version: The three top enforcers for Demon are interesting. One is a hero corrupted, one is a composite being formed by the souls of four heroes and seven demons trapped in the body of a former inner circle member, and one is a sort of synthetic fallen angel. The inner circle members did not impress me; the character builds were only so-so, and the characters themselves seemed to lack depth, especially when compared to the high quality of the rest of the writing. Only three other name bad guys appear, Cloaca Mistress of Ooze, Devil Dog, and Doctor Sammedi (sp). Of those three, Devil Dog was kind of interesting (another fallen hero, and one with a hidden agenda), but the other two didn't make much of an impression. However, the Morbanes, Brothers, and agents are much better done this time around, with customization options that will make you want to use them for all of your mystic criminal needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) So tempted to order it right now. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) I've put in about 20 minutes of reading it so far. And I warn you that I rarely read these things in order. But I've greatly enjoyed the history of DEMON. Allen does a very in depth job. It's too early to say, but I may have a new favorite book. I'll let you know in a couple days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) Just went and reread the history of DEMON, the life story of Luther Black, and his Master Plan. It's beautiful enough to make me weep. It's perfect art.(*) (Of course, seeing as how it's a plan to do /worse/ than "merely" set loose the Kings of Edom, it's perfectly horrifying and cosmically inhuman -- but it's so beautifully *written*. Consistent, thematic, imagery, everything... it's like the Perfect Mystic Supervillain Epic Storyline.) There are comics writers who go 15 years without coming up with shit even one-tenth this good re: plotlines. Mr. Thomas, if you are reading, I salute you. (*) Not the drawings. 'Art' as in 'work of art', not as in 'pretty pictures'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) Crud, after reading these reviews, I get the feeling this another 'must have'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted October 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) Crud' date=' after reading these reviews, I get the feeling this another 'must have'.[/quote'] It really, really is. Another great thing: The "Demon through the Ages" sections. Historical events (and possible plot seeds) detailing Demon in the Pulp, Silver, and modern eras. If you're running a period game you will want to use these; they also have sequel potential. So, um, I'm kinda enthused about this book. I do have some gripes, which I'll go into later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acroyear Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) Another great thing: The "Demon through the Ages" sections. Historical events (and possible plot seeds) detailing Demon in the Pulp, Silver, and modern eras. If you're running a period game you will want to use these; they also have sequel potential. Also great for the (apparently) rare time travel campaigns/characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) Are any of the old Innner Circle Members still around in the new book (I mean the ones from the Seeker-universe: Damon Harrington, Baba Yaga etc.)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) One question here: Does it say why DEMON worships and tries to invoke the Kings of Edom when, if said beings were to appear, they would literally destroy the entire world? I can't imagine that these guys have a lot of friends, even among the evil cultist set... spoiler . . . . . . . . . . . . . "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) Are any of the old Innner Circle Members still around in the new book (I mean the ones from the Seeker-universe: Damon Harrington' date=' Baba Yaga etc.)?[/quote'] Not a one. But Luther Black and the Inverted Trinity are way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cooler. Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted October 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) Not a one. But Luther Black and the Inverted Trinity are way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cooler. Seriously. Agreed. By far the best characters in the book, and huge numbers of plot seeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) Dang, this book sounds to be on a level with VIPER. Now I've gotta get it, one way or the other! And thanks for the info on the 'why do they worship these things?' bit about the Kings of Edom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted October 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) SO-SO STUFF Spoilers ahead So, what was not as good? Personally I didn’t like the new inner circle; Two of them at least need re-writes. I understand that the Inner circle were not designed as mystic master villains, but as people that the Edomite thinks he can control. I think Thomas or whoever designed them went a little too far in that direction. From the top: 1) The Coin Collector. He’s an odd one trick pony; his only powers are high mystic defenses and the ability to force you to serve him if he can get you to sign a contract. He has no arcane means of fulfilling those contracts, which might have been nice. It looks like he was meant to use his vast wealth and influence to torment the characters, but he doesn’t actually have any contacts detailed on his sheet. Any GM who wants to use him at all will have to add scads of soul-enslaved contacts to make him useful; something should have been written in, even if it was only “Group Contact, Slavishly Loyal, Very useful Skills Or Powers, Access to Major Institutions, 14 or less: Soul Enslaved Victims.†2) The Dalang. This guy should have been interesting; his power set isn’t bad, and his background is cool. Still, from his role and write-up it’s obvious that he should have some mind control powers, and probably followers and other benefits. He’s also crying out for a Power Skill so that he can pull some Indian Shadow Magic stunts out of his hat. Yes, GMs can add that. 3) Nocturne: Not bad from a mechanics POV, and at least she can fulfill her role as written. Her background seems a little flat, but it’s not bad. No serious complaints. 4) Doc Pandemonium: A quite good mad scientist, and not a bad write-up. A Gadget Pool might be nice, but no other major suggestions. 5) Bleek: The best of them. Interesting character, solid write-up, lots of plot potential. None of this is meant to detract from the otherwise very high quality of the book; just feedback from a long time customer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted October 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Re: DEMON: Opinions (some spoilers) Dang, this book sounds to be on a level with VIPER. Now I've gotta get it, one way or the other! It is. I may nit-pick, but it's a very good organization book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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