The big arcade competition

[paigeoliver]

How would you resolve this competition.

 

Characters are competing in a Defender competition at their local arcade.Where the high score wins a prize or something

 

One character has a bonofide 1 point KS: Defender 8- skill right on his character sheet.

 

While another character has a KS: video games 11-

 

Then other characters (due to background) would at least have played the game before.

 

Finally some characters would be completely unfamiliar with the game.

 

So how would YOU run the contest? I am of the opinion that the character with the 1 pt Defender KS has the huge advantage, but I am unsure of how to translate that into game terms.

 

We also have the option of actually playing the game itself (I DO own a machine), but that would make any game skills or stats useless, and plus I am A LOT better than all my players are at Defender.

[OddHat]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

Everybody gets to make a Dex roll once per turn, 10 total rolls for 2 minutes of coin-op action.

 

KS: Defender guy gets to make his KS: Defender roll every time. It acts as a complimentary skill roll to his Dex roll.

 

KS: Games guy gets to make his complimentary skill roll once, and add it to his worst Dex roll.

 

The player who succeeds the most wins. In the case of a tie, the player with the best single roll wins.

 

Or you could play your defender game, and give KS: Defender guy three extra quarters, and the KS:Video Games guy one extra quarter. It might be fun, or it might get the whole group playing out of character. Depends on your players.

[paigeoliver]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

Here is one approach I was thinking.

 

Lets say in order to speed up the contest the arcade owner has his machine's set one one life.

 

Play the competition is waves. Assume player earns an extra life each wave.

 

Each wave the player must make a dex roll to pass the wave without losing a life. Fail the roll lose a life and try again. Players with a general video games skill get a single unmodified roll for a bonus life at the beginning of the wave. Players with a game specific skill can roll that skill for a bonus life every wave.

 

Wave one is a unmodified dex roll.

Wave two is at -1

Wave 3 is at -2

Wave four is at -3

etc.

 

Of course that still isn't perfect. But truthfully anyone who actually spent a point on being good at Defender should be able to play for hours. I am not a Defender expert yet, but my Robotron games can go fairly long, and my Pac-Man games are beginning to approach 30 minutes each now.

 

Of course there is still the little sticky problem of speedsters and other characters who can perceive reality in super slow motion.

[Gary]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

I would always give almost any skill contest to someone who actually paid points for a skill over anyone who didn't. So that eliminates everyone except for the 8- defender skill and the 11- video games skill. From here, I would just give it outright to the 8- defender skill, because frankly this may possibly be the only time in the entire game that he gets to use that skill. Or you can apply a -5 penalty to the person with the general 11- skill since that seems to be the Hero rule of thumb for narrowing the scope of general skills.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

{BEGIN WISE-GUY MODE}

 

Well, actually, neither the KS: Defender guy nor the KS: Video Games guy has much of an edge over each other or the other characters in actually playing the game. KS: Defender means the guy knows about the game (when it was released, who the programmers were, how much it would cost to buy one, what kind of processor is in it, etc.). If he wanted to be good at actually playing it, he should have bought PS: Defender Player.

 

{END WISE-GUY MODE}

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

We also have the option of actually playing the game itself (I DO own a machine)

Can I come over and play Defender? ::wistful puppy-dog-eyed smilie::

[TheEmerged]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

I have two rules that affect this scenario. Note that I am biased toward the opinion that skill rolls should have noticeable bonuses and penalties, as oppossed to the opinion that 11- represents a "professional" level of skill.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

 

The first is what I call the "Dad vs Uncle Otto" rule -- KS does not allow you to do anything, but it can be complimentary to the PS that allows you to do something. So if I'm GM'ing your situation, all of the players are equally inept (because none have a relevant PS) but the ones with the KS can problably explain why they messed up.

 

In terms of mechanics, I rule it like this. Make the KS roll; if you succeed you have a +2 PSL for the purpose of the upcoming PS roll. If you succeed by more than 2 (you got a 8 or lower on a roll vs 11), you get a bonus to the upcoming roll for every point by which you exceeded that standard (so if you're rolling against an 11, getting an 8 is a +1, getting a 7 is a +2, and so on).

 

Off Topic: the name of this rule has its basis in the fact that my father and an uncle of mine worked at the same factory and played chess during breaks. Uncle Otto was the better chess player (High PS, low KS) but my father was more 'studied' in the game (Moderate PS, high KS). The result was that they were roughly equal in tems of the outcome. Dad's superior knowledge of the game could only do so much against Uncle Otto's superior playing ability, but it definitely leveled the playing field.

 

Perhaps another example is in order -- let's forget for a moment there is a seperate Computer Programming skill. There were two programmers at my previous job -- let's call them Heckle and Jeckle. Heckle had a Master's Degree in progamming, Jeckle had quit school in the 7th grade. Jeckle was capable of getting programs to do things Heckle couldn't, because his PS: Programming was higher. But Heckle's programs were easier to debug because he knew the 'right' way to code; Jeckle often had to spend weeks and months trying to track down squirrelly aspects of his code. On the other hand Heckle was often not up to certain tasks, while Jeckle's code sometimes seemed to work despite itself...

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The second is that there is a "step" penalty for each degree of 'broadness' in a KS/PS/SS skill, and that there's generally 4 steps of broadness under a theoretical "macro skill" -- and taking the macro skill is generally not allowed. I haven't completely settled on the actual penalty: I've tried both a straight -2 per step and a "-1 for the first two steps, -2 thereafter" setup and neither works out quite the way I want.

 

To use your example, I'd break it down as follows

 

• Macro -- Games (Video, Board, Card...)
  
• Video Games
  
• Game Class (Shooter, RPG, Side-Scroller...)
  
• Specific Title (Defender, Space Invaders, PacMan...)
  
• Specific Variant (PacMan at the Arcade, PacMan for the Atari, Ms. PacMan...)
  

 

So the person with "Video Games" as their closest appropriate PS (or KS for the complimentary roll) would have 3 steps of penalty to play a specific variety of Defender, while the person with "Defender" would only have 1 step -- and the GM might void that penalty if it's understood that's the specific variety the player is used to.

[paigeoliver]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

Yes, sure you can come play. Although you might want to wait a few weeks as my Star Wars and Space War are both on the verge of being fixed as well.

 

The Defender player actually does have a PS: Defender and not a KS. He used his free one point PS for it. I don't know why I was typing KS.

 

Also, as to the fact the skill might never come up again. We are playing an 80s game with late teen to early 20s characters and lots of secret ID action, so playing arcade games is going to come up fairly often, expecially since the GM collects them.

[OddHat]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

Yes, sure you can come play. Although you might want to wait a few weeks as my Star Wars and Space War are both on the verge of being fixed as well.

 

The Defender player actually does have a PS: Defender and not a KS. He used his free one point PS for it. I don't know why I was typing KS.

 

Also, as to the fact the skill might never come up again. We are playing an 80s game with late teen to early 20s characters and lots of secret ID action, so playing arcade games is going to come up fairly often, expecially since the GM collects them.

 

If it's a PS, he should be given a serious boost whatever way you use to resolve the contest.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

Depending on what kind of game it is, I'd start with characteristic rolls. DEX for a 'twitch game' like Defender, INT for a puzzle game.

 

If it's 'one player goes, then the other player goes', I'd give each one the same number of skill checks and add up the total 'how much you made it by' (If your Dex roll is 13, and you roll a 10, that's three points). Professional skills are complimentary to the Dex rolls, as usual ... though I'd probably arrange something so someone with PS: Defender Player would get a bigger bonus than a general PS: Video Gamer.

 

If it's Player vs Player (say, Street Fighter), the points would be determined by the results of skill vs skill (so, if Player A rolls a 12 and Player B rolls a 14, player A gets two points).

[Mentor]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

I would always give almost any skill contest to someone who actually paid points for a skill over anyone who didn't. So that eliminates everyone except for the 8- defender skill and the 11- video games skill. From here' date=' I would just give it outright to the 8- defender skill, because frankly this may possibly be the only time in the entire game that he gets to use that skill. Or you can apply a -5 penalty to the person with the general 11- skill since that seems to be the Hero rule of thumb for narrowing the scope of general skills.[/quote']

I generally agree. A GM might want to roll dice and story the event out down to the wire for five minutes, but ultimately the guy who bought the rare enough skill should get something out of it. As Gary indicated, how often can someone need to use that ability?

[Captain Obvious]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

Yes, sure you can come play. Although you might want to wait a few weeks as my Star Wars and Space War are both on the verge of being fixed as well.

 

Do you live in an arcade or something?

[paigeoliver]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

Um, sort of. I have a (bootleg, with multikit) Galaga mini in the bedroom. A Japanese sit at 29" screen Neo Geo and a Midway cocktail (with multigame installed) in the living room. Along with Space War, Star Wars, Stunt Cycle, Roadblasters, Defender (with multi-williams kit), STUN Runner, High Impact, Sega Turbo, and a generic cabinet in the game room.

 

There are another dozen machines in various states of broken in my basement, and at least 40 working boardsets in my closet.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

When you get a working Moon Patrol, call me.

[paigeoliver]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

My multi-williams kit can be upgraded to add Moon Patrol for $30. The only reason I haven't done it is because I play the dang thing so much that I don't want to send the board off for the upgrade.

[Rapier]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

I am of the opinion that the character with the 1 pt Defender KS has the huge advantage' date=' but I am unsure of how to translate that into game terms.[/quote']

 

This is my number one problem with Hero. Number One? Well, top 5, at least. Shadowrun does a marvelous thing with skills. They call it the Skill Web and it shows how each skill relates to another skill. Each step on the skill web is a -1 mod to the roll (actually thats +1 in Shadowrun, but its a 1 point penalty).

 

For instance (if you want more examples I could scan it...its a REALLY cool thing)...oh I think it represents best as an outline.

 

I. Charisma

1. Leadership

2. (Empty Spot)

A. Interrogation

B. Negotiation

 

Now. You are trying to Negotiate and you don't have Negotiation skill. What to do? You can use Interrogation (with a -1 penalty). You can use Leadership (at -2) or you can use Charisma (at -3). Oh, the empty spot counts as a step.

 

It makes things so much easier. Cmon, Steve, give us a Web!!

 

For your case specifically, I would say this:

 

- Guy with Defender KS is at his 8- (thats a pretty cruddy Defender score btw)

- Guy with KS Arcade Games is probably at -2 (time frame means a lot if this is 1986 its probably only -1 because we ALL played Defender back then. If the date is current day I would say -3 or -4 since these young punks dont know Defender from Donkey Kong).

- People using a computer game type skill would be another -2 from KS Arcade penalty

- People using Dex would be at another -2.

 

And I'd still be tempted to do it RL and beat the pants off em!

[Lanith]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

Personally, the player who has PS: Defender 8- should have the best chance.

 

IMO, everyone rolls against the PS: Defender skill first, only one player having the skill he/she would roll. If the player succeeds, no more rolls are needed. If the player fails, then anyone with "video game skills" purchased would roll. If any of those players succeed then you have a winner. Last but not least, if no one succeeds a PS: Defender roll or a "video game" roll, then Dex rolls.

 

If no players succeed at Dex rolls, load it up some Defender and skool em!

 

Don

 

EDIT: me spelley good

[paigeoliver]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

Thanks for all the help here guys.

 

In the end I want one of the players to win the contest (as opposed to the npc's), but I want it to be a bit more dramatic than a hand wave or a single roll.

 

Game takes place in an unspecified 1980s timeframe, so most gamers should be familiar with Defender.

 

Funny thing is that I was too young to ever encounter a Defender in the wild back during its glory days. But I sure played the heck out of my Atari 2600 Stargate cartridge. Or maybe I just never played it. I remember playing Joust and Star Wars and Pac-Man and Galaga and even freaking oddball stuff like Red Baron, Crossbow and Peter Packrat, but not Defender.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

How old are you? If you played Joust and Star Wars and Pac-Man back when they were new, you're probably not too young to have seen Defender.

 

Edit: To answer your original question: I'd just have them each roll against their respective skills. Apply a penalty to the guy with PS: Video Games because he's going from a generalized skill to a specific application; probably about -3 is right, which would make him and the guy with PS: Defender equal. No need to overthink this.

[paigeoliver]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

I'm 27. Old enough where I was just starting to get to spend my quarters on arcade games at the tail end of the classic era. I am personally thinking that by 1984 (when I really started playing) that there just weren't a lot of Defenders still out there on location. It was four years old at that point, the sequel had been out for several years, and that cabinet is SUPER EASY to slap another game into since the control panel is a flat piece of plywood.

 

Or it could have also been the simple fact that Defender has a MASSIVE learning curve, and that I might have tried it and simply died immediately and then written it off in my mind.

 

I mainly remember playing Pac-Man and Moon Patrol A LOT when I was that young.

[Rapier]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

I mainly remember playing Pac-Man and Moon Patrol A LOT when I was that young.

 

I've only got 4 years on ya, but apparently there was quite a bit in them 4 years!

 

I was a SpyHunter FIEND. I could make it all the way through Rolling Thunder on one quarter. We don't even want to talk about the GNP of Lichenstein that I pumped into Gauntlet.

 

ELF IS ABOUT TO DIE!

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

Yes' date=' sure you can come play. Although you might want to wait a few weeks as my Star Wars and Space War are both on the verge of being fixed as well.[/quote']Thanks! Early November then, maybe.

 

I have a (bootleg, with multikit) Galaga mini in the bedroom. A Japanese sit at 29" screen Neo Geo and a Midway cocktail (with multigame installed) in the living room. Along with Space War, Star Wars, Stunt Cycle, Roadblasters, Defender (with multi-williams kit), STUN Runner, High Impact, Sega Turbo, and a generic cabinet in the game room.

 

There are another dozen machines in various states of broken in my basement, and at least 40 working boardsets in my closet.

[Rapier]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

Um, sort of. I have a (bootleg, with multikit) Galaga mini in the bedroom. A Japanese sit at 29" screen Neo Geo and a Midway cocktail (with multigame installed) in the living room. Along with Space War, Star Wars, Stunt Cycle, Roadblasters, Defender (with multi-williams kit), STUN Runner, High Impact, Sega Turbo, and a generic cabinet in the game room.

 

There are another dozen machines in various states of broken in my basement, and at least 40 working boardsets in my closet.

I SOOOOOOO wanna come visit!!!

 

Talk about a blast from the past!

[paigeoliver]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

Just got an email from Frank (the guy who fixes Vectorbeam monitors) and my monitor boards have been rebuilt and are on their way back home! So Space War should be up again within a couple days. I am also going to spend some serious time working on my Star Wars monitor tommorrow and see if I can't get it working.

 

If anyone wonders why I sent one monitor out for repair, while trying to fix another myself, it is because I was able to order a rebuilt kit for the Star Wars monitor, while no rebuild kit exists for the vectorbeam one.

 

With any luck I'll even find the time to get my Golden Tee stuff installed!

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: The big arcade competition

 

Paige is a longtime and prolific poster on the Build Your Own Arcade Controls web forum (http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php). Which should explain his massive collection of arcade hardware.

 

Where do you find the time and the money to do all of that, Paige?

 

P.S. Sorry for "outing" your secret ID.