Have you ever taken a fall?

[Sociotard]

And so, with a final blow to the neck, the cave troll falls dead. I don't know why I let you buy all those Hit location PSL's.

 

I alway's thought it was because you didn't like cave trolls.

 

The fight round continues until the player gets his next phase

 

I place one foot on the cave trolls head, let out a victory cry, and collapse unconcious.

 

What?

 

Oh sorry, did I need to roll something to do that?

 

No, I mean, what do you mean you're unconcious. You haven't taken any hits since you downed that troll, so you can't have been knocked out.

 

I have a whopping 3 points STUN left. I took a lot of damage back there, and this way I get to take some recovery.

 

So? You don't have to be K.O.ed to recover.

 

Sure. I could say I'm just hunched over and breathing deeply. Collapsing, however, is much more dramatic. If I just pant, I'm not nearly so heroic. Obviously, I still have stun, this is just special effects.

 

I was kind of impressed with this. Taking a dive, just so it looked cool in the mind's eye? I admit, imagining one warrior taking down a savage monster, only to collapse on top of it would make a very cool scene. Would you let a player do it? Have you done it?

[jackalope]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

I was kind of impressed with this. Taking a dive' date=' just so it looked cool in the mind's eye? I admit, imagining one warrior taking down a savage monster, only to collapse on top of it would make a very cool scene. Would you let a player do it? Have you done it?[/quote']

 

+1 XP for Good Role-Playing.

 

"Huh huh, that was cool."

[keithcurtis]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

A couple of us in this neck of the woods are big dramatists. This sort of thing is pretty common. We frequently penalize ourselves when low on Body for instance. If I only have 1-2 points, I'm going to be moving pretty slowly and painfully, and I'll avoid combat if possible.

 

Keith "Tis not so deep as a well, nor wide as a church door..." Curtis

[Rapier]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

I'm not sure if we've ever gone to quite that extreme. Although it would be worth a spare XP or two.

 

We've:

 

Aborted to wimper

Aborted to "Shat myself"

Aborted to "URK!"

 

Just for those situations when, as a character, you see it coming and can't manage to get out of the way of the screaming freight train of This-Is-Gonna-Leave-A-Mark.

 

A few years ago during one of our semi-yearly get togethers, we all thought Chad was really getting into role. He was running low on END and had taken buttloads of STUN and he is sitting over there panting and struggling for breath. We were very impressed. Then he used his inhaler and it was all better.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

Oh sure, I had a character faint upon recieving some awful news from a scrying attempt. The others were concerned that there was some sort of backlash effect...

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

Yup. I've "allowed" (encouraged!!!) that when it's happened, and I've done similar things with my own characters.

 

Most recent example: my Champions character (and namesake), Dr. Anomaly, had just returned with most of the rest of the team from a grueling mission. Given that he's a gadgeteer/sorcerer, and that 90%+ of his "powers" come from items he constructs, and that said items had been used (single-shot scrolls), were out of ammo (weapons) or had batteries drained (force field projector), he was less than delighted to learn the base had been ransacked while the team was gone, and the one team member that had been at the base at the time was missing (presumed kidnapped) by the intruder(s).

 

The team immediately set out in pursuit; seeing as it takes Dr. Anomaly anything from hours to days to prepare/create his various tech and magic items, that meant he had to go with almost nothing to use. Judging this to be a true emergancy, he took the extreme measure of removing from the vault in his magic lab one of those "items" that sorceror-heroes always seem to end up with and hope they never have to use: things with unwholesome powers or dark origins. He wasn't really sure what it would do, but his research had revealed it was a focus for an effect called the "Soul Rend". That sounded suitably powerful, and it was almost the only thing available.

 

(I'll add at this point that I knew what the item's power was, since I'd written it up myself, but as this is a co-GM'd campaign, the other GM [who was running the scenario] would have final say on how it worked. It was only a 4-point item, but had been constructed as one of those "degenerate" items that are hideously effective for the points. That's why I'd never had the character use it so far -- it's pretty darn unbalancing -- and I gave it a sinister/dark name & origin so there'd be a reason for me not to let the character use it. Still, it was one of the items like that I'd written up for "emergancies", when all else fails, and the GM told me "go ahead and take it.")

 

The team caught up with the intruders (a Viper Special Ops team with some heavy metanormal support) and it got ugly fast. The main Viper villain, an invisible martial artist / brick, took down 3 of our team practically before you could blink...and 2 of those 3 he one-shotted! Dr. Anomaly decided this guy had to go down, and fast, and unleashed the power of the talisman with that Viper agent as the target. Due to the limitations of the talisman, Dr. Anomaly had to be standing literally within arm's reach of the target.

 

The villain took 20 points of Killing Body damage past his defense, putting him unconcious and at -4 Body; the psychic backlash was pretty bad for Dr. Anomaly as well (Side Effects, Always Occur). What was worse, though, from the character's point of view, was the physical effect.

 

Given the name "Soul Rend", he'd expected it to be a psychic/spiritual sort of attack...he hadn't expected there to be an accompanying physical result. The shredded, barely-alive Viper villain was on the ground at his feet, and Dr. Anomaly was literally covered, head to toe, with the person's blood from where it had sprayed out through his shredded body.

 

Dr. Anomaly spent the rest of the combat standing there, unmoving, in frozen horror at what he'd done to another living thing, the person whose blood he was now wearing. The other GM kept giving me chances to make EGO checks to snap out of it, and I kept voluntarily failing them, even though it meant the rest of the still-concious team was taking some hammering Dr. Anomaly could have helped to prevent. Finally the GM insisted I actually roll the dice instead of just voluntarily failing the check...and I rolled 6, 6, 6.

 

The GM stopped insisting I make EGO checks to snap out of it.

 

 

Also for the record, the Viper agent survived, but escaped...scooped up by her fleeing special ops team. (Thank goodness! I honestly don't know what Dr. Anomaly would have done had he actually killed someone!) He still has nightmares about that incident, and the item in question is now in the hands of an organization of white mystics with which Dr. Anomaly is affiliated, since he obviously can't trust himself with it any longer.

[RobCRogers]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

Also for the record' date=' the Viper agent survived, but escaped...scooped up by her fleeing special ops team. (Thank goodness! I honestly don't know what Dr. Anomaly would have done had he [i']actually[/i] killed someone!) He still has nightmares about that incident, and the item in question is now in the hands of an organization of white mystics with which Dr. Anomaly is affiliated, since he obviously can't trust himself with it any longer.

 

Very cool story (and a cool name, by the way). Rep to you!

 

This also sounds like a great opportunity to motivate the injured villain (likely horribly scarred) to have a real grudge against Dr. Anomaly. Being "soul rended" could even qualify as a radiation accident, couldn't it?

 

This reminds me a little bit of an event in the face to face game I GM. The resident super mage, attempting to coerce a COIL agent into spilling his guts, transported him to a remote mountain cave in another dimension, leaving him there until he "changed his ways." Ultimately, the agent--consumed by hatred--entered into a trance state and stumbled onto a ritual that basically made him immune to magic. He's been a hunter of the PC ever since.

[JmOz]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

And so' date=' with a final blow to the neck, the cave troll falls dead. I don't know why I let you buy all those Hit location PSL's.[/color']

 

I alway's thought it was because you didn't like cave trolls.

 

The fight round continues until the player gets his next phase

 

I place one foot on the cave trolls head, let out a victory cry, and collapse unconcious.

 

What?

 

Oh sorry, did I need to roll something to do that?

 

No, I mean, what do you mean you're unconcious. You haven't taken any hits since you downed that troll, so you can't have been knocked out.

 

I have a whopping 3 points STUN left. I took a lot of damage back there, and this way I get to take some recovery.

 

So? You don't have to be K.O.ed to recover.

 

Sure. I could say I'm just hunched over and breathing deeply. Collapsing, however, is much more dramatic. If I just pant, I'm not nearly so heroic. Obviously, I still have stun, this is just special effects.

 

I was kind of impressed with this. Taking a dive, just so it looked cool in the mind's eye? I admit, imagining one warrior taking down a savage monster, only to collapse on top of it would make a very cool scene. Would you let a player do it? Have you done it?

 

Cool

 

and

 

rep to you

[keithcurtis]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

On a related note, how many of your(fantasy) characters have voluntarily forgone treasure and magic because it didn't fit concept or there was another character (or NPC even) to whom it should go.

Example, a fantasy archer who finds a +3 Armor Piercing Battle Axe and gives it to the Barbarian NPC, even though there was nothing in the rules to prevent him from using it. Even though he had no other magical weapons.

My mage character often forgoes any magic item not specifically designed for spellcasters. He also is paid from the royal treasury to cover his cost of living/components/research, so he never searches for treasure either.

 

Keith "How about that, huh?" Curtis

[RDU Neil]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

On a related note, how many of your(fantasy) characters have voluntarily forgone treasure and magic because it didn't fit concept or there was another character (or NPC even) to whom it should go.

Example, a fantasy archer who finds a +3 Armor Piercing Battle Axe and gives it to the Barbarian NPC, even though there was nothing in the rules to prevent him from using it. Even though he had no other magical weapons.

My mage character often forgoes any magic item not specifically designed for spellcasters. He also is paid from the royal treasury to cover his cost of living/components/research, so he never searches for treasure either.

 

Keith "How about that, huh?" Curtis

 

Way... WAY back in the early '80s. Isle of Doom, I think was called. (Isle of Dread?) we had a party adventuring through that module, and one, a Paladin with a powerful magical sword, died.

 

We buried him, and when the GM asked, "What about his sword?" two of us said, almost simultaneously, "We buried it with him. It was his!" The third player, a total asshat of a skulker & backstabber who also CLAIMED to be playing a Paladin, threw a hissy fit and threatened to go dig up the body to get that sword! (He died next adventure. We didn't bury him at all.)

 

This was in high school... as a 9th grader, for me. I realized even then that drama and story were much more important than collecting treasure. We dropped D&D for Champions and early Fantasy Hero very soon after that.

[JMcL63]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

Well, I have had a superheroine decide that she had had enough emotionally, and suffer the equivalent of a maxium-level successful PRE-attack (and this just as combat was opening), simply because it seemed appropriate at the time. Does this qualify?

[RDU Neil]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

And so' date=' with a final blow to the neck, the cave troll falls dead. I don't know why I let you buy all those Hit location PSL's.[/color']

 

I alway's thought it was because you didn't like cave trolls.

 

The fight round continues until the player gets his next phase

 

I place one foot on the cave trolls head, let out a victory cry, and collapse unconcious.

 

What?

 

Oh sorry, did I need to roll something to do that?

 

No, I mean, what do you mean you're unconcious. You haven't taken any hits since you downed that troll, so you can't have been knocked out.

 

I have a whopping 3 points STUN left. I took a lot of damage back there, and this way I get to take some recovery.

 

So? You don't have to be K.O.ed to recover.

 

Sure. I could say I'm just hunched over and breathing deeply. Collapsing, however, is much more dramatic. If I just pant, I'm not nearly so heroic. Obviously, I still have stun, this is just special effects.

 

I was kind of impressed with this. Taking a dive, just so it looked cool in the mind's eye? I admit, imagining one warrior taking down a savage monster, only to collapse on top of it would make a very cool scene. Would you let a player do it? Have you done it?

 

I'm glad this came up, as this kind of thing is VERY common in our group, and I'm still surprised when this comes up as something "new" in other games.

 

I even have a game mechanic that helps to represent this exact kind of dealio. I allow pushing up to half again the active points of a power, at 1 END for 1 points. (So a 10d6 EB could become a 15d6 EB for 25 END!)

 

Players love this, as it lets 'em dish out big damage, but it is limited because players get quickly exhausted. Classic example was a ch'i master martial artist taking on another, mystically enhanced martial artist. The battle went back and forth, wearing both down a bit, until the PC master got an advantage. He took the risk to push his ch'i blast to the point of doing damage to himself (1d6 damage for every 2 END you go negative is my rule.) He took his big shot to floor the villailn, dropping himself to negative twenty something END, doing 10d6 to himself, knocking himself out! Collapsing on his fallen foe! It was cool, and completely up to the player to try, and didn't require just SFX role playing, but role playing out actual exhaustion and collapse.

 

We love this stuff. I highly encourage it. Kudos to your player!

[aylwin13]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

My first Champs character Electron (a flying EP) was in a situation like this. He and his team Omega Force were fighting a supervillain group in the streets of Las Vegas. Electron was facing off against one of the villains, named Lucky Eddie, a trained “normal†whose only powers were mucho dice of Luck (as a power) and Unluck (UAA, at range). Electron and Eddie exchanged hits and many misses (due to Eddie’s luck powers) for a couple of Turns. Both of them were exhausted. Lucky Eddie was in the middle of an intersection, barely able to stay standing. Electron was flying towards him with his force field on. He was out of END (and burning STUN). He pushed his flight speed as far as he could, and flew right into Lucky Eddie. He lifted him off the ground and carried him back another 20 or 30 feet, where they both crashed to the ground unconscious. Neither one of them got back up.

 

There’s nothing better, or more dramatic, than a hero giving his all to get the villain.

[zornwil]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

I give out Rep and XP. The player would more likely get some Rep points than any XP for that action - rep is built specifically for this sort of thing.

[keithcurtis]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

I really liked the recent "Taking a Hit Rule" story line in Knights of the Dinner Table.

 

Keith "Knight devotee" Curtis

[Sean Waters]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

A cynic, if such a beast existed, might think that (assuming there was still a fight going on) this was just a cunning was of avoiding being targetted whilst sneaking a recovery in plain sight, and so reward in its own right (if you get away with it). Even if it was it was probably worth a one off XP award for bare faced cheek.

 

Not quite the same, but...

 

I was running a game where one of my villains mind controlled the hero team flying brick and ordered him to attack his team mates.

 

He did, attacking with his most powerful attack: his move through.

 

I didn't see what he was doing until afterwards and it was beautiful: he targeted the highest DCV member of the team, pushing both his flight and strength, screaming a battle cry so he would be noticed and (naturally enough) with the OCV penalties v. high DCV, he missed. He'd angled his attack (we were using scenery) so that he flew straight into the door of a bank vault, caused no KB and stunned and knocked himself out with his own attack, all so that he didn't have to fight his team mates. It was absolutely in line with the MC instructions and incredibly heroic, and a beautiful way to 'subconsciously' fight the MC br role playing.

 

He 'took a fall' for the team: that got extra XP, bigstyle.

[Rapier]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

A cynic, if such a beast existed, might think that (assuming there was still a fight going on) this was just a cunning was of avoiding being targetted whilst sneaking a recovery in plain sight, and so reward in its own right (if you get away with it). Even if it was it was probably worth a one off XP award for bare faced cheek.

 

Not quite the same, but...

 

I was running a game where one of my villains mind controlled the hero team flying brick and ordered him to attack his team mates.

 

He did, attacking with his most powerful attack: his move through.

 

I didn't see what he was doing until afterwards and it was beautiful: he targeted the highest DCV member of the team, pushing both his flight and strength, screaming a battle cry so he would be noticed and (naturally enough) with the OCV penalties v. high DCV, he missed. He'd angled his attack (we were using scenery) so that he flew straight into the door of a bank vault, caused no KB and stunned and knocked himself out with his own attack, all so that he didn't have to fight his team mates. It was absolutely in line with the MC instructions and incredibly heroic, and a beautiful way to 'subconsciously' fight the MC br role playing.

 

He 'took a fall' for the team: that got extra XP, bigstyle.

Ug. Sometimes I hate MC. In a head-to-head game I played a while back one of the players was playing a villainess mentalist. She was getting pwned by a rubber hero. She hit him with her MC and gave him a "I'm no longer here" command.

 

Do you follow the letter of the MC or the intent? Ensued a HUGE argument. Rubber Hero was arguing that he was going to continue to attack the space in front of him because even though he couldn't see her he knew she was still there. He was trying to rationalise his knowledge as a player that he hadn't seen her use TP or something so she couldn't have escaped. A little player knowledge bleedover. About the same as a Ranger I had in a D&D game ONCE that ran around disbelieving everything. I ruled that the intent was what was important...and gave him the benefit of the poorly worded command buffer. Not that any of this would have made a lick of difference, he had a x2 Effect vs Mental Powers vulnerability.

 

MC Command: Attack your teammates.

Hero: I'm going to attack the highest DCV person with my lowest OCV attack.

 

Does it satisfy the letter of the command, certainly. Does it satisfy the intent of the command? Highly doubtful.

 

Where do you draw the line? Since there IS such a penalty as Poorly Worded Command, I'm tempted to come down on the side of intent.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

Oh I'm just as bad if the players have MC. They need a three page contract to get someone to tell them their own name with any degree of reliability even with EGO+30 level of effect, so I don't feel too bad about letting a hero circumvent a MC from a villain.

 

The thing is if a power is potentially abusable there are ways and means of discouraging the abuse. You can't argue with a 20d6 EB. Well, not until you wake up...

[Rapier]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

Oh I'm just as bad if the players have MC. They need a three page contract to get someone to tell them their own name with any degree of reliability even with EGO+30 level of effect, so I don't feel too bad about letting a hero circumvent a MC from a villain.

 

The thing is if a power is potentially abusable there are ways and means of discouraging the abuse. You can't argue with a 20d6 EB. Well, not until you wake up...

True. As long as the playing field is flat, I guess it doesn't really matter other than personal preference.

[zornwil]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

True. As long as the playing field is flat' date=' I guess it doesn't really matter other than personal preference.[/quote']

I think this hits the nail on the head, a level playing field - I am rather liberal with Mind Control, quite the opposite of the "three page contract" approach TheRealLemming (but I know the real "lemming", and you sir are not him! ) cites. But it's a two-way street and the villains get the same benefit.

 

Generally, re wording versus intent, I think it comes down very much to the character. A dull-witted character might say and express something in such a limited way it will indeed work against his intent; a smarter character should get more of a benefit of intent and an assumption his control was stated better to coordinate with that intent. Obviously IMHO. I have drawn the line this way in the past.

[OddHat]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

I see no reason to gimp any power. Either allow it in your campaigns or don't; screwing with the players may be fun for you, but it's going to shorten the life of your gaming group (I'll leave the "crappy way to treat your friends" issue for those who actually do consider the people they game with to be friends).

 

With Mind Control, I always go with what's dramatically appropriate within the rules. Usually that means going with intent. In games where MC has a good chance of breaking the plot, I ask players to use a different character.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

(but I know the real "lemming"' date=' and you sir are not him! [/quote']

 

Ah, but I was Lemming, before the original Hero boards went down/the cybergames thing and the discussion boards were hosted elsewhere for some time: by the time I found my way back, another lemming had appeared, and I, well...it is a sad story, let us leave it at that.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

I see no reason to gimp any power. Either allow it in your campaigns or don't; screwing with the players may be fun for you, but it's going to shorten the life of your gaming group (I'll leave the "crappy way to treat your friends" issue for those who actually do consider the people they game with to be friends).

 

With Mind Control, I always go with what's dramatically appropriate within the rules. Usually that means going with intent. In games where MC has a good chance of breaking the plot, I ask players to use a different character.

 

Blimey. Don't feel like defending my relationship with my gaming group but suffice to say we've been together since 1984 and still meet regularly even though we live in different parts of the country. I could get touchy if you carry on like that.

 

Did you read the anecdote I posted earlier in this thread? It was about a player in a game I was running subverting 'my' villain's MC in a possibly questionable but definitely heroic fashion. Mind Control is a judgement call power in any event. I am perfectly happy to reward a well though out use of it and punish a stupid one and expect the same courtesy from those I play with. You can go with intent if you like, but you'll be missing a lot of beautiful scenery. If that is gimping it, hand me the gimp mask.

[Rapier]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

I think this hits the nail on the head, a level playing field - I am rather liberal with Mind Control, quite the opposite of the "three page contract" approach TheRealLemming (but I know the real "lemming", and you sir are not him! ) cites. But it's a two-way street and the villains get the same benefit.

 

Generally, re wording versus intent, I think it comes down very much to the character. A dull-witted character might say and express something in such a limited way it will indeed work against his intent; a smarter character should get more of a benefit of intent and an assumption his control was stated better to coordinate with that intent. Obviously IMHO. I have drawn the line this way in the past.

Mental Powers can be such a pit though, a pit just as deep as the VPP pit.

 

I had one very-ex player get into an argument with me because he ordered a villain to shoot himself. I said he was violently opposed to doing that. His contention was that if there was a giant slug eating his lower body he might shoot at the thing, so he would be inclined to shoot himself. Argument ensues on MC vs MI etc.

 

Finally I had enough. DD flies in from off-map, fires his killer 20d6 Penetrating, AP x 20 RKA, kills the character and I tell him he can now leave and he shouldn't plan on coming back. This wasn't the first run-in with this player, but it was most definately the last.

 

One of the hardest thing to GM in hero is these subjective tests "How likely is Plane Jane to shut off her flight?"

[OddHat]

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

 

Blimey. Don't feel like defending my relationship with my gaming group but suffice to say we've been together since 1984 and still meet regularly even though we live in different parts of the country. I could get touchy if you carry on like that.

 

Did you read the anecdote I posted earlier in this thread? It was about a player in a game I was running subverting 'my' villain's MC in a possibly questionable but definitely heroic fashion. Mind Control is a judgement call power in any event. I am perfectly happy to reward a well though out use of it and punish a stupid one and expect the same courtesy from those I play with. You can go with intent if you like, but you'll be missing a lot of beautiful scenery. If that is gimping it, hand me the gimp mask.

 

I was responding to your "three page contract to get somone to tell you his name" quip. Light it may have been, but at that point why let a player have Mind Control at all?

 

I am however glad to hear that your players hold you in high esteem.