Oihid

[Trebuchet]

Re: Oihid

 

Actually I believe that you're wrong about that, refer to page 170 of FREd.

 

Look at the paragraph in the first column toward at the bottom of the page. The paragraph I'm talking about starts out: "MegaMovement is considered Noncombat Movement. . . . "

 

If you read the paragraph, it does not say any thing about being impossible to use MegaMovement in combat. It only says that you need GM permission to attempt attacks during MegaMovement. And it goes on and a bit later to say that a character using MegaMovement to attack is 0 OCV and ½ DCV (just like other non-combat movement). It also warns that you are likely to kill yourself doing a MegaMovement move through.

 

So I would say that your idea that: "Megascale Flight is different because by definition it cannot be used for combat," is incorrect. As long as you get the GM's permission, Megascale Flight can be used in combat, just like non-combat Flight.

See my post #491 of this thread for why this is not correct.

 

The large +/- error factor in Megascaled movement would make it virtually impossible to use in combat even if the metarules don't make it impractical. On the off chance I were to permit a character to attempt a Megascaled Move Through, I would only permit it in a truly world-saving situation and only with the clear understanding that the character doing it will DIE if he somehow actually manages to hit. The system's metarules still prohibit this from being used as the ultimate attack.

 

Megascale in combat such as executing a Mach 5 pass as one cuts loose with an EB would be OK assuming he can see the target,the character's EB has sufficient range, and he can compensate for the severe Range penalties to hit.

[Warp9]

Re: Oihid

 

See my post #491 of this thread for why this is not correct.

 

The large +/- error factor in Megascaled movement would make it virtually impossible to use in combat even if the metarules don't make it impractical. On the off chance I were to permit a character to attempt a Megascaled Move Through, I would only permit it in a truly world-saving situation and only with the clear understanding that the character doing it will DIE if he somehow actually manages to hit. The system's metarules still prohibit this from being used as the ultimate attack.

 

Megascale in combat such as executing a Mach 5 pass as one cuts loose with an EB would be OK assuming he can see the target,the character's EB has sufficient range, and he can compensate for the severe Range penalties to hit.

I'm just pointing out that your statment: "Megascale Flight is different because by definition it cannot be used for combat" is not in line with what it says in the book.

 

You personally can rule that it is impossible to use Megascale Flight to do a Move Through, but you have to admit that the book does deal with the possibility.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Oihid

 

I'm just pointing out that your statment: "Megascale Flight is different because by definition it cannot be used for combat" is not in line with what it says in the book.

 

You personally can rule that it is impossible to use Megascale Flight to do a Move Through, but you have to admit that the book does deal with the possibility.

I overgeneralized earlier; and I withdraw my statement that it is illegal under the rules. While it is theoretically possible to use Megascale movement in combat (and even then it requires GM permission), as a practical matter it is impossible.

 

Let's assume Move-Through Man has 10" of combat Flight with Megascale. That means that even if he goes with the base 1" = 1 km scale of Megascale, he's moving 5000" per Phase. This gives him an effective OCV of -1000. (OCV 0 due to NCM; -1000 from v/5). IDHMBIFOM, but isn't a -1000 DCV from size to hit considerably larger than the entire Earth? So he'll hit only on a natural roll of "3" and if it's not any smaller than our solar system. Of course, if he misses it will be measured in AU. Not to mention taking 1666d6 of damage if he hits.

 

If he opts to select a lower Megascale multiple when he purchases the power(say 1" = 100 meters/50 hexes), then he's still moving at 500" per Phase. That's still at -100 OCV. I'll take my chances.

 

Now if he buys it at only 1" = 10 meters/5 hexes, then he's still at a -10 OCV. Not to mention that with such a low speed (50") he'd be better off just buying more STR than buying such a small NCM multiple.

[Warp9]

Re: Oihid

 

I overgeneralized earlier; and I withdraw my statement that it is illegal under the rules. While it is theoretically possible to use Megascale movement in combat (and even then it requires GM permission), as a practical matter it is impossible.

 

Let's assume Move-Through Man has 10" of combat Flight with Megascale. That means that even if he goes with the base 1" = 1 km scale of Megascale, he's moving 5000" per Phase. This gives him an effective OCV of -1000. (OCV 0 due to NCM; -1000 from v/5). IDHMBIFOM, but isn't a -1000 DCV from size to hit considerably larger than the entire Earth? So he'll hit only on a natural roll of "3" and if it's not any smaller than our solar system. Of course, if he misses it will be measured in AU. Not to mention taking 1666d6 of damage if he hits.

 

If he opts to select a lower Megascale multiple when he purchases the power(say 1" = 100 meters/50 hexes), then he's still moving at 500" per Phase. That's still at -100 OCV. I'll take my chances. :wingrin:

 

Now if he buys it at only 1" = 10 meters/5 hexes, then he's still at a -10 OCV. Not to mention that with such a low speed (50") he'd be better off just buying more STR than buying such a small NCM multiple.

You're right about that stuff.

 

But I believe that most of those statements would apply to using NCV to do a move through as well, you'd start out at 0 OCV, and have massive minuses to OCV from there (based on high non-combat speed). And if you went slow enough to have any chance of hitting, you might as well not be using NCV anyway.

 

 

On a slightly different note, you have explained that Megascale flight is different than normal flight, because, while you can use it to cross the Atlantic Ocean, you can't use it to cross the street.

 

How many characters have flight that actually fits that concept? I bet it is a very small number.

 

Characters like Superman and the Silver Surfer might qualify for Megascale flight. But on closer inspection, they can use their abilities to fly across the street, and they can use their abilities in combat, so Flight with non-combat multiples better fits those concepts.

 

 

I think you'll find that, most of the time, people do NOT buy Megascale because it fits their character concept better than normal NCV flight. They buy it only because it is much cheaper. Then they take cheesy "Rules Mechanic" steps to remove the limitations of Megascale flight, like putting it in a multipower with non-megascale flight. Megascale movement has its "limitations," but a limitation that is so easy to get around is not much of a limitation.

 

I still think it is just a cheaper (less fitting in most cases) means of doing what NCMs were designed to do (which IMO violates MetaRules #5 and #6).

[Trebuchet]

Re: Oihid

 

On a slightly different note, you have explained that Megascale flight is different than normal flight, because, while you can use it to cross the Atlantic Ocean, you can't use it to cross the street.

 

How many characters have flight that actually fits that concept? I bet it is a very small number.

 

Characters like Superman and the Silver Surfer might qualify for Megascale flight. But on closer inspection, they can use their abilities to fly across the street, and they can use their abilities in combat, so Flight with non-combat multiples better fits those concepts.

 

 

I think you'll find that, most of the time, people do NOT buy Megascale because it fits their character concept better than normal NCV flight. They buy it only because it is much cheaper. Then they take cheesy "Rules Mechanic" steps to remove the limitations of Megascale flight, like putting it in a multipower with non-megascale flight. Megascale movement has its "limitations," but a limitation that is so easy to get around is not much of a limitation.

 

I still think it is just a cheaper (less fitting in most cases) means of doing what NCMs were designed to do (which IMO violates MetaRules #5 and #6).

Agreed. But quite a few characters in the comics have supersonic flight, which is prohibitively expensive to buy simply with standard NCM Flight. I have found Megascaled movement to be more of a plot device than a particularly useful Power, and hence it's solidly under my control when I GM.

 

And as to potential abuses (and they certainly exist with this particular Advantage, (Which is why IIRC it has a ! at the beginning of the writeup in FREd), like all power constructs that's a problem for the GM and not a problem with the Megascale advantage in and of itself. That was sorta the central theme of this thread.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Oihid

 

Characters like Superman and the Silver Surfer might qualify for Megascale flight. But on closer inspection, they can use their abilities to fly across the street, and they can use their abilities in combat, so Flight with non-combat multiples better fits those concepts.

 

 

I think you'll find that, most of the time, people do NOT buy Megascale because it fits their character concept better than normal NCV flight. They buy it only because it is much cheaper. Then they take cheesy "Rules Mechanic" steps to remove the limitations of Megascale flight, like putting it in a multipower with non-megascale flight. Megascale movement has its "limitations," but a limitation that is so easy to get around is not much of a limitation.

 

I still think it is just a cheaper (less fitting in most cases) means of doing what NCMs were designed to do (which IMO violates MetaRules #5 and #6).

 

Let's be realistic here. What players would do before megascale is buy a Multipower of normal Flight (say 20" at 1/2 END) for combat use, and Fast Flight (say 5" flight with x256 NCM) for "megascale" flight. This would get them up to 1 km per inch (5 km per phase) at a cost of 60 points instead of 50 (for the base flight).

 

Now, they either buy an MP with normal flight or MS flight (probably 16" Megascale flight at 1/2 END or 14" at 0 END). Same cost, although they go slightly faster, but when we're dealing with this scale, how much benefit does it give them? It takes 1/3 as long to get from NY to LA - they aren't in comat anyway, so how much impact does that have?

 

Or they buy 20" flight with +1/4 variable advantage and use it for either MS or 1/2 END, and pay full END when flying at Megascale. Again, 60 points, and they may have to slow down in MS flight to avoid running out of END.

 

NCM remains useful for characters who can fly faster out of combat, but cannot reach supersonic speeds, unlike Superman or the Surfer, who have Megascale and normal flight.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Oihid

 

I have on occasion pondered the idea that Megascale might have been better done as an Adder rather than as an Advantage. Perhaps 10 points for the first level and 5 for each additional one...

[Rapier]

Re: Oihid

 

I think you'll find that' date=' most of the time, people do [b']NOT[/b] buy Megascale because it fits their character concept better than normal NCV flight. They buy it only because it is much cheaper. Then they take cheesy "Rules Mechanic" steps to remove the limitations of Megascale flight, like putting it in a multipower with non-megascale flight. Megascale movement has its "limitations," but a limitation that is so easy to get around is not much of a limitation.

No, you will be most surprised to find out that you are horribly, horribly wrong.

 

In the past couple years, I've seen a very large number of MegaScale movement powers (both in person and here on the boards). Megascale is used in a suite of movement powers.

 

Flight MP

u 20" Flight x4 NCM

u 20" Flight - Megascale

 

Or more often:

20" Flight x4 NCM

Naked Advantage Megascale for Flight

 

Only very, very occassionally will you see a MegaScale movement without a corresponding combat movement power. In these very rare cases, it was the concept that demanded it (there was a thread a while back about building a teleporter system that would fling a metalic sphere [with PCs enclosed] to another planet).

 

Why is megascale seperate? Because of the nature of megascale itself. Since megascale cannot be used in combat (effectively), it completely nerfs any combat value of the movement power in question. It is also common to see concept limitations on megascale movement (extra time, increased END, charges, concentration, etc).

 

Movement powers (using various advantages like megascale) are no different than attack powers:

 

MP

u 12d6 EB

u 8d6 EB AP

u 7d6 EB x2 KB

 

Megascale isn't cheap NCM. Megascale is a way to take a back-burner concept power (like Clairsentience, Telepathy, EDM) and make it possible within the usual power [EDIT: read 'point'] constraints.

 

Can you do the same thing with NCM multiples? Yes. However, I've got a character who is a speedster. He can run from London to New York in about an hour. Am I going to use this in combat? No. Am I going to use this often? No. But it IS a part of the character concept. So I should drop 80 points into this movement power, a power that I'm hardly ever going to use? In the meantime, all the rest of the team has dumped those 80 points into skills, DEF and DCs. Because my concept has this Run to Europe power, my speedster is at a definite disadvantage in power levels compared to the rest of the team. That's silly and ridiculous.

 

Why do you think that Growth and Shrinking Always On are no longer normal powers? Because household insects were 75 pts. The concept (a very small bug) was priced so far out of control, that it invalidated the concept as a whole. By point comparison, a 75pt garden slug is a good match up for 75pt policeman. Is that true? Of course not.

[Rapier]

Re: Oihid

 

I have on occasion pondered the idea that Megascale might have been better done as an Adder rather than as an Advantage. Perhaps 10 points for the first level and 5 for each additional one...

The problem with adders is that they are not scalable. 5pts is 5pts. Megascale has to be able to cover all genres (from FH to DC to Champions to SH). If you have 5" of Flight (10pts) and Megascale it with the adder (10pts), it would DOUBLE the cost of the flight (increase cost by 100%). If I have 25" Flight (50 pts) and Megascale it with the adder (10pts), it increases the cost by 20%.

 

Besides, with the codification of naked advantages, we've gained a very powerful tool that allows a great deal of versatility that is simple and cost effective.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Oihid

 

Well said.

 

With 8 PCs in our current grouping, only 1 has a Megascaled movement power: Sidestep, our teleportation specialist. He has about 5 different TP variation in a Multipower. I think this is totally within concept.

 

One other PC, Mentor's character Cyberknight, would reasonably have a Megascaled movement because his powered armor's concept is essentially "a jet fighter I wear." IIRC he hasn't yet bought it although it's on his short list to buy with XP.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Oihid

 

The problem with adders is that they are not scalable. 5pts is 5pts. Megascale has to be able to cover all genres (from FH to DC to Champions to SH). If you have 5" of Flight (10pts) and Megascale it with the adder (10pts), it would DOUBLE the cost of the flight (increase cost by 100%). If I have 25" Flight (50 pts) and Megascale it with the adder (10pts), it increases the cost by 20%.

 

Besides, with the codification of naked advantages, we've gained a very powerful tool that allows a great deal of versatility that is simple and cost effective.

I don't necessarily think lack of scalability is a negative in the context of different genres built with the Hero system. Superspeed flight is commonplace in the superheroic and space-faring genres, pretty much non-existent in fantasy. And is it really reasonable for a character to have only 5" of Flight and yet also have Megascale unless the Megascaled flight is his only version of it? What sfx would allow someone to fly either 10 meters per second or 5 kilometers per second, but nothing in between?

 

I was just thinking out loud. (Although I'm not a big fan of naked Advantages.) The rules as written work just fine in this particular instance.

[Rapier]

Re: Oihid

 

And is it really reasonable for a character to have only 5" of Flight and yet also have Megascale unless the Megascaled flight is his only version of it? What sfx would allow someone to fly either 10 meters per second or 5 kilometers per second' date=' but nothing in between? [/quote']

Damned if I know!! However, I am totally willing to admit that there is a concept/SFX out there that would qualify.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Oihid

 

You're right about that stuff.

 

But I believe that most of those statements would apply to using NCV to do a move through as well, you'd start out at 0 OCV, and have massive minuses to OCV from there (based on high non-combat speed). And if you went slow enough to have any chance of hitting, you might as well not be using NCV anyway.

 

 

On a slightly different note, you have explained that Megascale flight is different than normal flight, because, while you can use it to cross the Atlantic Ocean, you can't use it to cross the street.

 

How many characters have flight that actually fits that concept? I bet it is a very small number.

 

Characters like Superman and the Silver Surfer might qualify for Megascale flight. But on closer inspection, they can use their abilities to fly across the street, and they can use their abilities in combat, so Flight with non-combat multiples better fits those concepts.

 

 

I think you'll find that, most of the time, people do NOT buy Megascale because it fits their character concept better than normal NCV flight. They buy it only because it is much cheaper. Then they take cheesy "Rules Mechanic" steps to remove the limitations of Megascale flight, like putting it in a multipower with non-megascale flight. Megascale movement has its "limitations," but a limitation that is so easy to get around is not much of a limitation.

 

I still think it is just a cheaper (less fitting in most cases) means of doing what NCMs were designed to do (which IMO violates MetaRules #5 and #6).

 

You know what? You're right. The Hero System isn't big enough for the both of them. NCM vs Megascale... which one should go?

 

NCM. It's hideously overpriced. Being able to do really cool stuff (whatever it is) outside of combat is not worth that many points.

 

There. Problem Solved.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Oihid

 

I have on occasion pondered the idea that Megascale might have been better done as an Adder rather than as an Advantage. Perhaps 10 points for the first level and 5 for each additional one...

Say we wanted to build a generic version of The Fastest Man Alive TM. IMO, such a character should be able to do the following:

 

1. Have the option for No Turn Mode at any velocity.

2. Have the ability to see where he is going at MegaScale speeds (MegaScale Sight).

3. Have the ability to sustain a very high top speed (1/2 or 0 End).

 

{ The example below is based on Flight instead of Running and SPD 6 character for ease of active points calculations. }

 

Here is my take built with a 50 point Multipower Reserve:

 

 

 

 

• 5u Combat-Flight [50 active]
  

Flight 25" [50 active] *(-1/4)

[5 End]

{ This slot represents a Maximum Combat Velocity of ~ 56 mph }

 

• 5u Variable-Trick-Flight [50 active]
  

Flight 10" [20 active] Position Shift [5 active] Variable Advantage[+1/2 Advantages](+1) [25 active]

[5/2/0 End]

{ Example Advantages: Combat Acceleration/Deceleration(+1/4), MegaScale(1" = 1km), No Turn Mode or Reduced End (1/2 or 0 End) }

{ Combat Velocity ~ 22.5 mph / MegaScale: Minimum = 500" or ~ 1125 mph, Flat-Out Maximum = 50,000" or ~ 112,500 mph or ~ Mach 150, Sustanable Maximum = ~ Mach 30 with Turn Mode, Safe Sustanable Maximum ~ Mach 4.5 with No Turn Mode (3" @1" = 1km with NTM costs 2 End) }

 

• 5u Sonic-Flight [47 active]
  

Flight 5" [10 active] +x64 Noncombat Multiple(x128 total) [30 active]

Reduced End (1/2End)(+1/4)

[10 active]

[2 End]

{ This slot represents a continuous bridge between Combat and Mega-Flight minimum velocity of ~ 1125 mph}

{ 640" or ~ 1,440 mph, 15 Velocity-Based DCV }

And Outside of the Multipower:

 

5 Mega-Vision I

MegaScaled Sight {Normal Sight = 25 active}(1" = 1km)(+1/4) [6 active]

Linked to MegaScale Variable-Trick-Flight(-1/2)

Total = 70 points

{ This option has 3 distinct Gears of Acceleration (2nd Gear has almost none). Character has only 1 level of megascale perception, not good at speeds above ~112,500 mph (would cost 7 more points to cover second level of megascale movement) }

 

If we scale up to a 75 point Multipower reserve we can get:

 

 

 

 

• 7u Combat-Flight [75 active]
  

Flight 25" [50 active]

Reduced End (0 End)(+1/2) [25 active]

[0 End]

{ This slot represents a Maximum Combat Velocity of ~ 56 mph }

 

• 7u Trick-Flight [75 active]
  

Flight 19" [38 active] Position Shift [5 active]

Combat Acceleration/Deceleration (+1/4) [10 active]

No Turn Mode (+1/4) [11 active] Reduced End (1/2 End)(+1/4) [11 active]

[3 End]

{

This slot represents

High Maneverability

flight via

Combat Acceleration/Deceleration

,

No Turn Mode

and

Position Shift

}

 

• 7u Sonic-Flight [73 active]
  

Flight 6" [12 active] +x64 Noncombat Multiple(x128 total) [30 active] Variable Advantage [+1/2 Advantages, Only 3 Different Advantages](+3/4) [30 active]

[7/3/0 End]

{ This slot represents a continuous bridge between Combat and Mega-Flight minimum velocity of ~ 1125 mph}

{ Possible Variable Advantages: No Turn Mode, Rapid Noncombat Movement(+1/4) or Reduced End (1/2 or 0 End) }

{ 768" or ~ 1,728 mph, 17 Velocity-Based DCV }

{ 7 phases to reach top speed with RNM. ~ +110"/phase or ~ +247 mph/phase }

 

• 4u Mega-Flight [40 active]
  

Flight 5" [10 active] MegaScale(1" = 1,000 km; +1) Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km(+1/4) [12 active] Noncombat Acceleration/Deceleration(+1) [10 active] No Turn Mode(+1/4) [3 active] Reduced End(0 End)(+1/2) [5 active]

[0 End]

{ Minimum Speed = 500" or ~ 1125 mph }

{ Maximum Speed ~ 5,625,000 mph or 2,500,000 meters/second or ~ 2,500 km/second or ~.008 of C }

{ C = The speed of light in vacuum = ~ 299,792,458 meters/second }

 

• 2u Mega-Vision II [31 active]
  

MegaScaled Vision {Normal Sight = 25 active} (1" = 1,000 km; +1) Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km(+1/4) [31 active]

Linked to Mega-Flight (-1/4)

Total = 102 points

{ This option has 3 distinct Gears of acceleration but character can reach any speed between his combat and Maximum Speed of ~ 5,625,000 mph }

 

The question then becomes, what did he really get for the extra 27-32 points (depending on if you keep the Mega-Vision I in both builds)? Not just the ability to go from NY to LA and back in under a minute. He also gets the ability to wave at Shuttle Astronauts or SR71 pilots throughout their entire missions. Plot Device Extreme!

 

Is this worth it?

 

{ Note that the Inches of Combat Flight did not increase. }

 

Opinions?

 

HM

[Rapier]

Re: Oihid

 

Say we wanted to build a generic version of The Fastest Man Alive TM. IMO, such a character should be able to do the following:

 

1. Have the option for No Turn Mode at any velocity.

2. Have the ability to see where he is going at MegaScale speeds (MegaScale Sight).

3. Have the ability to sustain a very high top speed (1/2 or 0 End).

 

Opinions?

Heck, I'm with ya. I never saw the problem to begin with. The megascale sight is interesting. Do you really think it's necessary?

 

I guess what I'm asking is two things:

 

1) Is this not clairsentience, line of sight?

2) Does the effect function as Sight w/ no Range Penalties or is this just to ensure that while TFMA is travelling at megascale he can look around him and admire the scenery?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Oihid

 

Heck, I'm with ya. I never saw the problem to begin with. The megascale sight is interesting. Do you really think it's necessary?

 

I guess what I'm asking is two things:

 

1) Is this not clairsentience, line of sight?

2) Does the effect function as Sight w/ no Range Penalties or is this just to ensure that while TFMA is travelling at megascale he can look around him and admire the scenery?

The MegaScale sense requirement is straight out of FRED. It states that you need to have some way of reacting fast enough to not splatter yourself against something when you are travelling Faster Than A Speeding BulletTM via MegaScale movement (as opposed to normal non-combat multipliers?!?).

 

HM

[Rapier]

Re: Oihid

 

The MegaScale sense requirement is straight out of FRED. It states that you need to have some way of reacting fast enough to not splatter yourself against something when you are travelling Faster Than A Speeding BulletTM via MegaScale movement (as opposed to normal non-combat multipliers?!?).

Ah. Hmmmmm. I must have missed that. Seems strange though.

 

I really hate to mention this, for danger of rebooting this thread, however...and check me here if I'm wrong:

 

- You don't need an FTL Sight to see when you are FTL (upper level of megascale allows FTL, IIRC)

- You don't need NCM Sight if you are using a x1024 NCM (well within the range of megascale movement)

 

I would be tempted to rule that the simple fact that you can actually move at that speed means that you can sense at that speed.

 

I'm gonna give the megascale thing another read and give it some thought.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Oihid

 

The MegaScale sense requirement is straight out of FRED. It states that you need to have some way of reacting fast enough to not splatter yourself against something when you are travelling Faster Than A Speeding BulletTM via MegaScale movement (as opposed to normal non-combat multipliers?!?).

I think that's just further evidence that Megascaled movement is basically intended simply to get a character from Point A to Point B, which will probably be reasonably safe if you're doing it at 100K+ feet or in space. Trying it in a city will be a quick death for some poor soul (possibly not the super).

 

Either way, buying Megascale without matching Enhanced Senses does not seem like a smart idea.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Oihid

 

And is it really reasonable for a character to have only 5" of Flight and yet also have Megascale unless the Megascaled flight is his only version of it? What sfx would allow someone to fly either 10 meters per second or 5 kilometers per second' date=' but nothing in between? [/quote']

 

Well, in fairness, pretty much every character I've ever seen with Megascale has this issue to some extent. A character with 30" flight (and I don't see too many characters with more than that) and 24" flight, Megascale in a Multipower can fly as fast as 60 meters per phase (call it 30 meters per second) in combat, or 120 meters per phase (60 meters per second) noncombat maximum. Shifting to megascale, he can only slow down to 1 km per phase (500 meters per second). I guess he could voluntarily lower his speed to 2 while travelling 1" Megascale per phase, lowering him to 167 meters per second, but that's still well over double his maximum non-megascale movement.

 

It's one of those things best not thought about too hard, I think.

[OddHat]

Re: Oihid

 

Say we wanted to build a generic version of The Fastest Man Alive TM. IMO, such a character should be able to do the following:

 

1. Have the option for No Turn Mode at any velocity.

2. Have the ability to see where he is going at MegaScale speeds (MegaScale Sight).

3. Have the ability to sustain a very high top speed (1/2 or 0 End).

 

According to pages FRED 169&170, a megasense is recomended, but not required. Lack of such a sense may be dangerous, but a spaceship could make any number of FTL leaps it lied with very little danger of bumping into a planet; there's just not that much to hit in space.

 

Whrn I create my Flash style speedsters, I give them Rapid on sight, and maybe telescopc vision, rather than Megasight. Megasight would (by strict rule interpretation) make you blind to everything withing 1 Kilometer minimum, which would be fatal to a speedster. Desolidification for mega-speedsters, defined as just being that maneuverable, also works. Here's how one version of the power looks:

 

Impossibly Fast: (Total: 80 Active Cost, 59 Real Cost) Flight 10", MegaScale (1" = 100 km; +3/4), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (40 Active Points); Only In Contact With A Surface (-1/4) (Real Cost: 32) plus Desolidification (affected by Area Attacks) (40 Active Points); Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2) (Real Cost: 27) Real Cost: 59

 

And, for flavor:

15 Time to Look : Rapid (x1,000) with Sight Group

 

He can't crash into anything (he's Desolid), with the special effect being that his rapid sight spots it and his agility lets him step around. Even without the Rapid Sight, it would be legal.

[Warp9]

Re: Oihid

 

I have on occasion pondered the idea that Megascale might have been better done as an Adder rather than as an Advantage. Perhaps 10 points for the first level and 5 for each additional one...

That is basically what I'm thinking. But I'd just make the current NCM adders cost a bit less.

 

Maybe the first 2 levels of NCM would be full points (5 points each). Counting in the base (free) X2 NCV, This range would cover speeds of X4 to X8 Non Combat Velocity.

 

The second 2 levels would cost 1/2 (2 points each). This range would cover speeds of X16 to X32 NCV

 

 

After that, extra non-combat multiples would cost 1 point each. This would be in the range of X64 and above. And, if you could fly even 12 mph in combat, then X64 NCV would be equal to 768 mph, which would be more than the speed of sound. So the only time the really cheap multiples would kick in would be at around Mach 1.

 

 

This setup would allow NCM to get Megascale speeds at a much cheaper price, while keeping the old system intact for slow NCV speeds. You would not have the problems of characters who have only 5" of Flight and yet also have Megascale. And finally there would be one, and only one, mechanic for high speed non-combat flight.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Oihid

 

That is basically what I'm thinking. But I'd just make the current NCM adders cost a bit less.

 

Maybe the first 2 levels of NCM would be full points (5 points each). Counting in the base (free) X2 NCV, This range would cover speeds of X4 to X8 Non Combat Velocity.

 

The second 2 levels would cost 1/2 (2 points each). This range would cover speeds of X16 to X32 NCV

 

After that, extra non-combat multiples would cost 1 point each. This would be in the range of X64 and above. And, if you could fly even 12 mph in combat, then X64 NCV would be equal to 768 mph, which would be more than the speed of sound. So the only time the really cheap multiples would kick in would be at around Mach 1.

 

This setup would allow NCM to get Megascale speeds at a much cheaper price, while keeping the old system intact for slow NCV speeds. You would not have the problems of characters who have only 5" of Flight and yet also have Megascale. And finally there would be one, and only one, mechanic for high speed non-combat flight.

Really good idea, and IMHO far better than the current rules for NCM and Megascale movement. And your final sentence gives the best rationale of all to do it this way.

 

Rep for Warp9.

[Warp9]

Re: Oihid

 

Really good idea, and IMHO far better than the current rules for NCM and Megascale movement. And your final sentence gives the best rationale of all to do it this way.

 

Rep for Warp9.

 

Thanks!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Oihid

 

Just a point of curiosity here. We've had doubled NCM forver, and Megascale is new (5e). Novelty alone tends to attract some naysayers.

 

Above is considerable discussion about not needing megascale for movement because we have doubling NCM for the purpose of creating very large-scale movement. So, do the advocates of using NCM only (no megascale movement) also advocate the logical (IMO) extension of eliminating Faster than Light Travel in favour of larger numbers of doubling NCM (or, alternatively, use of Megascale)?

 

After all, FTL is just one more step up the scale for large-scale movement. Flight to cross the street; flight to cross the country; flight to cross the galaxy.

[Warp9]

Re: Oihid

 

Just a point of curiosity here. We've had doubled NCM forver, and Megascale is new (5e). Novelty alone tends to attract some naysayers.

 

Above is considerable discussion about not needing megascale for movement because we have doubling NCM for the purpose of creating very large-scale movement. So, do the advocates of using NCM only (no megascale movement) also advocate the logical (IMO) extension of eliminating Faster than Light Travel in favour of larger numbers of doubling NCM (or, alternatively, use of Megascale)?

 

After all, FTL is just one more step up the scale for large-scale movement. Flight to cross the street; flight to cross the country; flight to cross the galaxy.

I have considered that concept.

 

It would cost a bit more that the current setup, but the method I've suggested could integrate normal flight, NCV, Megascale, and FTL. All in one mechanic.

 

Once you get the place where you are getting extra multiples every point, things go up really fast. You'd have to spend about 20 points after you hit Mach 1 in order to reach slow FTL speeds (which is a factor of about 1 million times).

 

 

If things worked as I've suggested:

 

You might have 10" combat Flight (that would be 20 points)

The First 2 NCMs would be 10 more points

The Second 2 NCMs would be 4 more points (2 points per multiple)

For a total so far of 34 points, and beyond this point extra multiples cost 1 point each.

 

At around 55 points you'd have slow FTL.

 

At 65 points you'd be up to about 1,000 light years per year (3 LYs per day).

 

At 70 points you'd be at about 100 Light Years per day.

 

At 80 points, you'd be able to cross the whole galaxy in a day.

 

This would be one mechanic to cover all these aspects of flight (from crossing the street, to crossing the galaxy, all in 80 points).