Iron Champions

[Eyendasky80]

Do you think there's room within the Champions setting for a Super Group that uses lethal force against villains to operate on a worldwide level? Or would they get shut down by other hero teams?

[Kristopher]

Re: Iron Champions

 

My impression of the Champions Universe is that it mingles elements of all the superhero comic "ages" into one setting. There's plenty of lethality, especially if you happen to read through the sidebars in USPD or anything refering to the actions of Doc D or Takofanes -- bystanders seem to die all the time, and heroes aren't immune from death. Heroes occasionally go bad, such as Scirocco. Villains run the gamit from refusing to kill to almost refusing to not kill.

 

What we haven't seen any indication of so far in the CU is a lot of superhero lethality, especially of the almost offhanded Iron Age sort.

[Blue]

Re: Iron Champions

 

They would practically have to operate like villains.

 

I was thinking about something like this when reading Thunderbolts #2 a few days ago. At one point they're pretty much at odds with the UN and Mr. Fantastic who is present at the time, and are making demands related to shutting down a group of Atlantean fanatics or else they'll do it themselves.

 

Got me to thinking about if they could operate after that. They'd likely be at odds with the other major groups for their heavy-handed approach. So they'd need a base that was hidden, they'd need a means of getting around that couldn't get them tracked (maybe teleportation), and they'd obviously need lots of financing.

 

This brought me to the realization that a group of True Vigilantes would have to basically operated like a villain group, even if their targets weren't heroes.

[Hermit]

Re: Iron Champions

 

Either that or they'd need to get some sort of popularity to such a degree that no jury would put them away and the 'regular super heroes' were made to feel unappreciated and obselote in a world with such a revenge minded public...

 

Why am I reminded of Magog in Kingdom Come?

[Rapier]

Re: Iron Champions

 

One of my early campaigns did a similar deal, except the team was (instead of No CvK) an underground team. So while they fought for truth, justice and the Queen Mum, the authorities were always after them.

 

It does provide for quite a few REALLY good RP hooks. Team goes in to defeat EuroStar and just about as the soundly trounce EuroStar in comes the The New Knight. EEK! This can be a rather enjoyable campaign.

 

I think there is plenty of room in the CU for much of everything.

[Victim]

Re: Iron Champions

 

They might also be a pure military team. They probably wouldn't really be involved traditional super fights, because they're over in some foreign country, aren't really accepted supers outside military bases, etc. But when something huge like a Tak attack goes down, then the city might call in the national guard so to speak.

[Red Knight]

Re: Iron Champions

 

They might also be a pure military team. They probably wouldn't really be involved traditional super fights' date=' because they're over in some foreign country, aren't really accepted supers outside military bases, etc. But when something huge like a Tak attack goes down, then the city might call in the national guard so to speak.[/quote']

 

The JLA fought a group called the ULTRAmarines. They were designed by the governmentto be a supers team loyal to the US. I can see the army designing a team that they can control. The government would want to have their own SUPERs weapon(s).

I can see the US forces to be sanctioned to use wahtever force neccesary to ensure the safety of American (or whatever country you want) citizens.

 

I would think that the other heroes might have issue with the Military Team being willing to use deadly force to end a situation. In the JLA comicbook, the ULTRAmarines ended up attacking the JLA trying to kill them.

[OddHat]

Re: Iron Champions

 

We haven't seen much of the CU's Super Teams yet, but sure, in your version of the CU you can place teams that are willing to kill. It all comes down to the tone you want to set. Many of the Mystic World villains in particular are torturers and murderers, and a few of the CKC villains are mass murderers. I'd expect heroes facing those villains to kill them if they had to.

[Rapier]

Re: Iron Champions

 

I can see the army designing a team that they can control. The government would want to have their own SUPERs weapon(s).

What!?! You mean the army and the gov't don't always work together? I'm scandalised!!

 

Actually that is a good point. The army/navy/air force/marines/coast guard/nasa (Space Command) all have their supers that are dedicated to meeting the goals of the various branches/organisations.

 

A few senators are going to, of course, decide that those goals are not the same as those of the US government and build/enroll their own superteams.

 

A couple of governors (especially TX and CA since they are the particular big guns and like to do their own thing anyway) would build their own superteams since it's unlikely that the national teams could arrive in time.

 

Some mayors are going to build their own superteams (most notably those large cities: LA, NY, Chicago or those cities with crime problems: DC, LA, Miami, SF) to make sure that they have supers when needed.

 

Some corporations are going to build their own superteams. There is nothing like corporate security by a 12' tall, purple behemoth that can throw tanks and breathe fire now, is there? Also consider that a number of corporations would be doing the R&D behind developing supers (chances are they are working for the military also, but who says they couldn't use it themselves).

 

Law enforcement is going to HAVE to have supers. Find a crook to catch a crook, neh? Most notably the CIA, US Marshalls, FBI, ATF, DEA, etc (all the alphabet soupers).

 

Oh, I almost forgot. The private citizen with no governmental or corporate sponsorship that develops their own superteam (eg XMen) to better and protect mankind.

 

All in all, what it comes down to is that there are going to be LOTS of different superteams, all with different goals. There is going to be plenty of room for strife (in fact it is quite expected, look at how poorly the FBI, CIA, DEA, ATF work together and with local law enforcement).

 

Also consider the Batman/GCPD relationship: Bats is a vigilante and commits crimes all the time (assault, battery, attempted murder, etc), in fact there have been NUMEROUS times when the GCPD has attempted to arrest him, but Bats continues to exist because they don't really want to catch him. He's too useful.

 

So you superteam has killed a serial killer who for the past 6 weeks has been running around kidnapping little girls, torturing them, skinning them alive and dining on the remains (and making himself a nice new wardrobe to boot). The police arrive, see you standing over the body...turn their backs, start whistling and in a very loud voice proclaim:

 

"Gee, Charlie, it's sure a shame what happened to that guy. If only we had seen who done it, why we'd have to bring em in."

"Yeah, Sam its really a shame that when we gots here NOBODY was here."

[scuffing away a footprint in the mud] "Yep, Charlie, and they didn't leave any evidence either. That's one smart cookie. I don't think we'll ever find 'em"

[Metaphysician]

Re: Iron Champions

 

That might be a little dark for the default Champions U. Then again, I tend to figure that you can render said "niche" mostly unnecessary on the larger scale by having the major superteams be a little less fanatically CvK ( Com, Tot ).

 

Translation: nobody in the Champions U should object to using the fullest lethal force possible against, say, Dr Destroyer.

 

( for the record: in the New Sentinels campaign of which I am a part, the Sentinels are a more or less bronze age superteam. We also have only 2-3 CvKs among the six of us, and I think only one of them is Total )

[Eyendasky80]

Re: Iron Champions

 

Who plays in an "Iron Age" style campaign?

[OddHat]

Re: Iron Champions

 

Who plays in an "Iron Age" style campaign?

 

I have, on and off for over fifteen years. My default campaign is Bronze-Iron.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Iron Champions

 

For a strange moment looking at the thread title I thought this was refering to some odd Champions varient of "Iron Chef". Two people would be given a power and then told to build a character around it.

[OddHat]

Re: Iron Champions

 

For a strange moment looking at the thread title I thought this was refering to some odd Champions varient of "Iron Chef". Two people would be given a power and then told to build a character around it.

 

What a fantastic idea for a character thread.

[Eyendasky80]

Re: Iron Champions

 

Stay on target.

[Doug McCrae]

Re: Iron Champions

 

Stay on target.

A stoner gang I know uses that as one of their catchphrases. They say it whenever someone's about to fall asleep.

 

By making this post though I have, unfortunately, failed to stay on target. For which I apologise.

[Eyendasky80]

Re: Iron Champions

 

That's okay, tangents are usually more interesting than the original topic. Which is way they happen.

[Rapier]

Re: Iron Champions

 

A stoner gang I know uses that as one of their catchphrases. They say it whenever someone's about to fall asleep.

Our favourite is:

 

[Mr Miagi]

"Always look eye"

[/Mr Miagi]

 

But it doesn't necessarily pertain to just falling asleep. Anytime someone is wandering or isn't paying attention to details they get it.

[tinman]

Re: Iron Champions

 

"Gee, Charlie, it's sure a shame what happened to that guy. If only we had seen who done it, why we'd have to bring em in."

"Yeah, Sam its really a shame that when we gots here NOBODY was here."

[scuffing away a footprint in the mud] "Yep, Charlie, and they didn't leave any evidence either. That's one smart cookie. I don't think we'll ever find 'em"

 

I had a vigilante in my campaign who primarily targeted cop-killers (and he would usually make sure they never had a chance to commit another crime). Oddly enough the police were seemingly incapable of catching him no matter how hard they "tried".

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Iron Champions

 

Many of the Mystic World villains in particular are torturers and murderers' date=' and a few of the CKC villains are mass murderers.[/quote']

 

There are superheroes, and then there are suprheroes. We have a supergroup that is focused almost entirely on mystic matters, but they aren't really "superheroes" in the usual sense. They are more like a supernatural consulting agency that has to go and kick some ass now and again. They don't fight crime or rescue people from hostage situations or anything likethat (at least, not most of the time). And although they will kill if they need to (and not shed many tears over it), they are also likely to let the villain escape if it's clear that the villain has lost, is going home (another dimension, typically), and understands the importance of staying there. There's a kind of noblesse oblige involved.