Stupid question 4 : phases

[Glabutz]

I'm really quite afraid for my first use of HS this saturday.

 

This is my question ;

atack is an 1/2 phase action, and so is défense. So :

 

1. Is dodge a 1 phase action (1/2 +1/2) ? I feel not, but...

 

2. Can you strike and save the half phase for a defense ? If I remember well, striking must be your last action, the you shuld not...

 

3. If you take no action, your defense is jst your DCV with situatin bs/ms. So, it is mostly a choice.

 

4. Last one : do you have penalties when you're injuried, other than impaired ?

[Monolith]

Re: Stupid question 4 : phases

 

Originally posted by Glabutz

1. Is dodge a 1 phase action (1/2 +1/2) ? I feel not, but...

Dodge is a half-phase action. If you have no action left in your phase (as if you made a full move) you cannot do a dodge.

 

2. Can you strike and save the half phase for a defense ? If I remember well, striking must be your last action, the you shuld not...

An attack is a phase ending action. Once you attack, whether you have a half-phase action left or not, your phase is over. The attack ends your phase.

 

3. If you take no action, your defense is jst your DCV with situatin bs/ms. So, it is mostly a choice.

I am not real sure what you mean here. Your DCV is always your normal DEX divided by 3. Certain combat maneuvers will either increase (dodge) or decrease (haymaker) your DCV, but if you do nothing you DCV always stays the same.

 

4. Last one : do you have penalties when you're injuried, other than impaired ?

Not really. In a superhero game the hero is assumed to rise above his injuries to achieve his heroic goals. Spider-man might have a broken rib, which needs time to heal, but Mary Jane needs to be saved and Spidey will find a way to do it.

[Fitz]

1) Dodge is a half-phase maneuver

 

2) You can't attack if you're Dodging. Your normal defence is determined by your DCV plus any Combat Skill Levels you have alotted to defence for that phase; unless you're Blocking or Dodging you don't otherwise have to actively defend yourself -- it's just assumed that if you're in a combat situation and aware, you are defending yourself.

 

As you say, an attack ends your phase, so you can't attack and then block (though you can "call forward" a block, thus forfeiting your next phase).

 

3) Yes, assuming you are aware of the attack

 

4) Not officially, but it depends on the individual campaign. I've used OCV/DCV/Skill penalties in the past for progressive degrees of damage, but didn't find it added anything much to the game for the sort of campaign I was running. It would be a useful option if you want a very grim-'n-gritty campaign in which combat is somethingt o be avoided if possible.

[Starcorp Man]

Re: Re: Stupid question 4 : phases

 

Originally posted by Monolith

Dodge is a half-phase action. If you have no action left in your phase (as if you made a full move) you cannot do a dodge.

 

Technically you can still abort to it. Otherwise correct sir

 

2. Nope

3. Yes, actually once your turn is done, you still have the modifiers from the situation until the next phase.

4. Standard Superheroic no, there is no penalites.

[Blue]

4) Well, avoiding the obvious unconscious/dead result you might end up with, a character CAN be stunned by a sufficiently high amount of STUN damage. That's an easy rule to look up in the book.

[Starcorp Man]

Okay get technical

[Blue]

Well, I only did that because if they're new to the system it's an easy rule to forget (Stunning on a single hit).

[Monolith]

Re: Re: Re: Stupid question 4 : phases

 

Originally posted by Starcorp Man

Technically you can still abort to it. Otherwise correct sir

This time I am afraid I am correct. From page 236 in FREd:

"Once a character has made an attack action or otherwise used his Full Phase in a particular Segment, he cannot Abort to any action until his next Segment."

 

So if a character Full Moves on Phase 5, he cannot do an Abort to a Dodge if he is then attacked on Phase 5 unless (there always has to be an unless) the character has the Flying Dodge maneuver from UMA. Otherwise he must wait until Segment 6 to do an Abort to Dodge.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Stupid question 4 : phases

 

Originally posted by Monolith

So if a character Full Moves on Phase 5, he cannot do an Abort to a Dodge if he is then attacked on Phase 5

(edited for brevity)

 

This is a good reason to implement the house rule that all characters declare actions on their phase in reverse initiative order, ie lowest to highest DEX. Once declared, they can't change, and the higher DEX guys have the advantage of making their decisions based on their opponent's tactical decisions. No more incompetent normals half-moving out of the way of the speedster's haymaker....

[lemming]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stupid question 4 : phases

 

Originally posted by Captain Obvious

(edited for brevity)

 

This is a good reason to implement the house rule that all characters declare actions on their phase in reverse initiative order, ie lowest to highest DEX. Once declared, they can't change, and the higher DEX guys have the advantage of making their decisions based on their opponent's tactical decisions. No more incompetent normals half-moving out of the way of the speedster's haymaker....

 

Not a bad solution.

 

I'd forgotten about the no abort if you've used up your full phase in a segment. Is that new to 5th, (he says being lazy about looking it up )

 

We experimented in an FH game where you could abort even after making an attack. We found it cut into people delaying and was not unbalancing.

[Glabutz]

Ok, thanks for all these explanations.

 

But, still, can you use some CSL points to increase your DCV until your next phase or is it only a one action thing ?

 

Exemple : Sir Walter is a Star Wandering Knight, with a 16 Points CSL (so +2 OCV/DCV) and a 10 points HTH (or should I say Melee ?) CSL (so +2 also). His Dex is 18, so his OCV and DCV is 7.

 

While he is fighting with his vibro blade against another knights.

 

On his first action phase, he wants to protect himself and strike.

So, he may use his 10 points CSL to increase his DCV to 9, and his 18 points CSL to increase his DCV to 9.

 

Does it means that his DCV is 9 until he strikes, until one tries to srtikes him or until his next phase ?

[schir1964]

Depends on the CSL type that's purchased.

 

The 2, 3, and 5 Point CSL's required they be tied to a specific type of action.

 

An 8 Point CSL is not.

 

Also the 10 Point Skil Level also can be used as needed.

 

At the beginning of each character's phase the Player needs to assign where all his CSL's are going to be applied. These points stay assigned until the character's next phase.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[sbarron]

Originally posted by Glabutz

Exemple : Sir Walter is a Star Wandering Knight, with a 16 Points CSL (so +2 OCV/DCV) and a 10 points HTH (or should I say Melee ?) CSL (so +2 also). His Dex is 18, so his OCV and DCV is 7.

 

While he is fighting with his vibro blade against another knights.

 

On his first action phase, he wants to protect himself and strike.

So, he may use his 10 points CSL to increase his DCV to 9, and his 18 points CSL to increase his DCV to 9.

 

Does it means that his DCV is 9 until he strikes, until one tries to srtikes him or until his next phase ?

 

Rather than saying he has "16 points CSL", it's more accurate to say +2 w/ All Combat. And the "a 10 pts HTH" should be +2 w/ HTH (Melee is equally accepted). So he would have 4 levels to use for whatever he wanted in this fight. Providing this is what you meant, of course.

 

He will automatically protect himself. You don't have to mention that specifically when you are descibing his actions unless he is planning on doing a maneuver that is defensive (block, dodge, dive for cover, etc.). So on the phase you describe, his character wants to attack his opponent. If he has an 18 Dex, the his base OCV/DCV is 6 (18/3). He has to decide how he will destribute his levels this phase. He could fight defensively, to decrease his chance of getting hit, by putting all his levels in DCV, giving him 6 OCV and 10 DCV. Or he could decide to fight offensively, and go with 10 OCV and 6 DCV. Or he could just distribute them equally and go with 8 OCV and 8 DCV. Once he sets the levels for this phase, they are set until his next phase, at which time he can reset them however he'd like.

[Starcorp Man]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stupid question 4 : phases

 

Originally posted by lemming

I'd forgotten about the no abort if you've used up your full phase in a segment. Is that new to 5th, (he says being lazy about looking it up )

 

Yep, that's new, and I missed that part. Honestly I don't use that ruling.

[paul_runstedler]

One question came to mind when reading these (and this is probably covered in the book, but I don't have one here right now).

 

If I go on Phase 4, and 6, and its phase 5.

Evildoor attacks me on phase 5. I abort to a dodge.

He misses me. When phase 6 comes, am I able to do anything? I've always played that when aborting to a defensive maneuver, you've used up your full phase. In other words, I can't go on phase 6, since I aborted to a dodge on phase 5.

Is this correct?

 

I guess this begs the question (something I've never tried personally) can I make a half move on phase 4, and hold the second half of my phase. Then when evildoor attacks me on phase 5, I use it to dodge. Then on phase 6, I attack him with, you know, the standard 20d6 AP, NND, attack

 

Paul

[sbarron]

I think you have it, Paul.

[Southern Cross]

Ludicrous Attacks

 

Actually,since the whole point of an NND attack is that it ignores most defenses,it shouldn't be possible to buy the AP Advantage for an NND attack.(that's probably one of the reasons the AVLD Advantage was created).

And what campaign has attacks with 250 Active points? (Dragonball Z Hero excepted).

[paul_runstedler]

Re: Ludicrous Attacks

 

Originally posted by Southern Cross

Actually,since the whole point of an NND attack is that it ignores most defenses,it shouldn't be possible to buy the AP Advantage for an NND attack.(that's probably one of the reasons the AVLD Advantage was created).

And what campaign has attacks with 250 Active points? (Dragonball Z Hero excepted).

 

Ahhh....right.

 

That would have been what is commonly known as, a "joke".

 

 

Paul

[Guest Keneton]

You could abort your 8th after your dex on the 6th as you aborted your 6th on the 5th.

 

As for the idea of declaring actions in reverse order, the idea is counter hero mechanics and will not nor does work.

 

The idea has some merit, but in practice it would fail.

 

[Catacomb]

Absolutely.

[Mavnn]

Originally posted by Keneton

You could abort your 8th after your dex on the 6th as you aborted your 6th on the 5th.

 

As for the idea of declaring actions in reverse order, the idea is counter hero mechanics and will not nor does work.

 

The idea has some merit, but in practice it would fail.

 

 

It works fine, actually (although as you say, it's not rules kosher as such). What made you think it wouldn't, other than it not being in the rulebook?

 

Michael

[Guest Keneton]

heres why

 

aborting, dive for cover, missile deflection/reflection, block, dex rolls, fast draw, avoiding an attack with desol, rolling with punch

none of these work

 

I can name a few more if you like.

[Mavnn]

?? It makes no difference to any of these - it just means that if you have a higher DEX, you're more likely to know if you need to use them in advance.

 

It does change the balance of the game (it gives higher DEX characters an even bigger edge, which you might not want), but it has no effect on the maneuvers mentioned.

 

More to the point, I know of people who have used this system successfully - so it obviously does work for them. I'm not claiming it's the be all and end all, or even that I'd choose to use it myself but I find a blanket 'it won't work' somewhat narrow in outlook.

 

Michael

[Guest Keneton]

Originally posted by Mavnn

?? It makes no difference to any of these - it just means that if you have a higher DEX, you're more likely to know if you need to use them in advance.

 

It does change the balance of the game (it gives higher DEX characters an even bigger edge, which you might not want), but it has no effect on the maneuvers mentioned.

 

More to the point, I know of people who have used this system successfully - so it obviously does work for them. I'm not claiming it's the be all and end all, or even that I'd choose to use it myself but I find a blanket 'it won't work' somewhat narrow in outlook.

 

Michael

 

Why would you dive for cover before you new you were attacked? How would you missle deflect an attack before it is made? Why would you brace before you new range? This sytem gives everyone the by proxy power Detect Speed and Combat actions, analyze, discriminatory, sense, 360, no range +18, n-ray. You know whta everyone is doing and where and you know there speed. Isnt that reason enough?

 

Look at what i said cant be done and show me how it can (from my fisrt post). Maybe we are talking about two different things, but unless I am reading you wrong, these things just dont work. Even if they did, what benefit comes from this old 2nd edition d&d mechanic?

 

 

[Mavnn]

Ah - I think we're making different assumptions. I would say that aborting still trumps turn order and allows you to change your action (although of course, you then lose the action you declared).

 

i.e. The Brick (DEX 18) and Fastboy (DEX 26) are in a fight. They both act in phase 12. The Brick declares he'll put levels in OCV and try and tag Fastboy when his action is reached. Fastboy declares his neutron star punch once-per-day mega-attack.

 

Then actions start in reverse order. Fastboy winds up for the neutron star punch. The Brick thinks better of it and aborts to a dodge. The attack misses. The Brick does no other action (he's aborted already). Next phase.

 

For things like block, missile deflection, etc. - these will actually now be used more often by fast characters as they'll know which of the slower characters is trying to tag them with what. Assuming that the character can see the slower opponent - I'm not sure where the 360 degree n-ray thing came from. If you get tagged by an unseen assailant, you get tagged by an unseen assailant. Your character gets no warning either way.

 

Advantages: it gives fast characters a tactical knowledge advantage. It vastly reduces the need of fast characters to complicate the turn sequence by holding actions (normally done so you can see what a slower opponent is doing, then act before him anyway...). Whether you consider these advantages depends on your taste.

 

As an aside, I'm not aware this rule did operate in DnD 2nd ed, although I could be wrong. Having said that, even if it did I say grab the rules that work for your group where ever you find them.

 

Michael