HERO 5E and D20

[Gadodel]

A very bizarre question. Perhaps, not easily answered.

 

What would be involved in coverting a HERO character to D20 and vice-versa?

[Dust Raven]

Re: HERO 5E and D20

 

A very bizarre question. Perhaps, not easily answered.

 

What would be involved in coverting a HERO character to D20 and vice-versa?

A good GM who's played both systems?

 

And a few weeks to convert things one at a time, using the toolkit method.

 

Note: I wouldn't convert HERO to another system. HERO is a toolkit system, and there really isn't anything to convert.

[Gadodel]

Re: HERO 5E and D20

 

A good GM who's played both systems?

Note: I wouldn't convert HERO to another system. HERO is a toolkit system, and there really isn't anything to convert.

 

I've got tons of experience with D20.

I've got next to none in terms of experience with HERO. I am new.

 

I am looking for ways to convert my D20 stuff to HERO...

[Captain Obvious]

Re: HERO 5E and D20

 

Check out http://www.killershrike.com for some ideas on converting D&D to Hero. If you're trying to convert d20 Modern or d20 Future, it won't be as immediately useful, but it should give some good ideas on how to go about it.

[Gadodel]

Re: HERO 5E and D20

 

Excellent! Thanks for the link.

 

My issues revolve around the Power Frame Works.

 

I wonder if there is a reasonable equation available...

[John Desmarais]

Re: HERO 5E and D20

 

I've got tons of experience with D20.

I've got next to none in terms of experience with HERO. I am new.

 

I am looking for ways to convert my D20 stuff to HERO...

 

In general, I don't do it - at least not at the numbers level. I find that I get results I am happier with doing "concept" level conversions; wherein I take an idea from another game and write it up in Hero. (And you can find lots of folks to help with this online).

[Gadodel]

Re: HERO 5E and D20

 

Yes, that is what I am thinking; pretty much.

 

Though, sometimes it is hard to ignore the numbers as they are quite helpful.

[Rapier]

Re: HERO 5E and D20

 

What would be involved in coverting a HERO character to D20 and vice-versa?

Coming off the lithium?

 

Cross-Dimensional havoc?

 

A small visit with Cthulu?

 

Heh.

 

Just kidding.

 

Same as it would take for any conversion, experience in both systems.

[Zeropoint]

Re: HERO 5E and D20

 

Going from Hero to d20 could be pretty rough, depending on what type of Hero character it was and which d20 system you were converting to. Converting a low- to moderately-powered Fantasy Hero character to D&D 3.x should be doable, but you will probably lose a lot of flavor.

 

Converting a 350-point super? You might be able to do that using BESM d20 (hey, isn't there a d20 Silver Age Sentinels?).

 

Some sci-fi characters might work in Star Wars d20.

 

I'd recommend Big Eyes, Small Mouth d20 to any d20 fans. It is a very flexible d20-based system, with near-Hero levels of possibilities, yet the mechanics are familiar to anyone who knows D&D 3.x. However, like any d20 game, it is NOT the same ruleset as any other d20 game, although converting from D&D to BESM d20 is pretty easy.

 

Zeropoint

[Dust Raven]

Re: HERO 5E and D20

 

I am looking for ways to convert my D20 stuff to HERO...

Lots of experience using d20... Well, you've come to the right place. All you need are these boards then, and a lot of patience.

 

A word of caution: When converting, don't get hung up on certian conventions used in d20 (such as Attacks of Opportunity). Not everything will apply, as combat, and other things, work on different mechanics.

 

The best thing to do is to just read the descriptions of some of the Everybody stuff, like Characteristics, movement and such, and pick which ones equate. Things like Stength, Dexterity, Intelligence and Constitution are pretty obvious, and Wisdom and Charisma are most likely Ego and Presence, though if you view part of Charisma to be a character's attractiveness, you might throw some of it toward COM.

 

Another word of caution: Hit Points do not equal BODY & STUN. The conventions that explain those things are completely different in the two games, though ultimately to act similar. Hit Points are a completely abstract construct that tells you how hard it is to kill a character, while BODY lets you know how much damage a character can take before dying, and STUN lets you know how much physical and mental stress the body can endure before falling unconscious. Similar, but significently different.

 

Just take everything as a case by case basis, and when you get stuck, or are not sure of something, post your question to the boards, either here or on the Fantasy Hero board (though if it's a basic rules issue, here is likely better).

 

And good luck!

[Lord Liaden]

Re: HERO 5E and D20

 

Because there are so many different "flavors" of D20, it's difficult to get a consistent method for all versions of the system. Usually when conversions are discussed it's for a specific game, such as Killer Shrike's D&D conversions above. Another example would be Hierax's guidelines for Star Wars D20, which you can view here. While it's not hard to decide on appropriate correspondences for Characteristics and Skills, the distinctive elements of a particular D20 game usually need to be handled on a case-by-case basis. I agree with my colleagues above that it's usually more effective to write up the effect from the source material in HERO terms.

 

Since HERO gamers like to adapt other games and settings to this system, though, there's actually been quite a lot done regarding conversion of a wide range of them. May I humbly suggest that you check this thread for examples.

[Gadodel]

Re: HERO 5E and D20

 

Thanks for the advice and links.

 

I am trying to keep the conversion process as simple as possible.

 

Many elements of D20 are easily convertable.

 

What is hanging me up a bit are the Spellcasters.

 

What I am thinking so far:

Wizards: VPP (Arcane)

Clerics: VPP (Divine)

Druids: EC

Psions: MP

 

Though, I am trying figure the math part out...

 

Example: A 20th level Wizard would equal what???

Killershrikes site is helpful, but my knowledge of the Power Frameworks is novice at best.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: HERO 5E and D20

 

Well, in that case it might be better to steer clear of them for a while.

 

Seriously, I'd advise you not to get into Variable Power Pools until you're more comfortable with the system. They are probably the most complex constructs to run in HERO. I've always been most comfortable with fantasy spellcasters using Multipowers, with each new spell they learn being an additional slot in the MP.

 

Given your specific concern, I would think that the Fantasy HERO genre book would be worth picking up if you haven't done so already. One major section is devoted to construction of different types of spell systems and the implications of the many choices you can make.

[KA.]

Re: HERO 5E and D20

 

Gadodel,

First, welcome to the boards, and to Hero!

Second, don't take the following as a criticism of D20.

I have played, and occasionally still do play it.

It is just the best example I can think of.

 

Imagine that you eat a ham sandwich every day for lunch.

One day, the deli you usually go to is closed, but there is a buffet nearby that is having a special. The buffet will cost you what you usually pay for a ham sandwich.

It would certainly be possible to find some ham and some bread on the buffet, and make yourself a sandwich, but you would also be ignoring a lot of great possibilities. Not to mention the fact that the combination of ham and bread you came up with might not be as satisfying as your "usual" due to slight differences in the bread, the mustard, etc.

 

As others before me have said, try not to get too caught up in the idea of a strict mathematical conversion process. You will end up with characters that feel like poor imitations.

Instead, try your best to capture the concept of the character, and then create that concept using the Hero system.

Otherwise you are likely to "shave off" aspects of the character that don't convert well, without replacing them with other things that the character lacked in D20, but can have in Hero.

 

One great way to get started could be this: Post some Concepts.

(You may want to do it in the Fantasy Hero board, since the posters there are more used to doing spells.)

But rather than starting out trying to convert your characters over from D20, present the concept, and perhaps a few key abilities, spells, magic items, etc, and see how people who regularly build that type of character in Hero, do it.

You may not find that any particular conversion is exactly what you want, but you will get a much better idea of the "Hero way" to do some of the things you want to do.

Once you have a grasp of that, converting your own characters will be much easier.

 

KA.

[MitchellS]

Re: HERO 5E and D20

 

As KA and other have stated, don't get too caught up in the idea of just converting characters. The Hero System does not do better d20 than D&D. If you are just loving all things d20 then stick with it. What the Hero System does better is offer you the ability to do everything besides d20 fantasy [and I say d20 fantasy because it really is its own genre of fantasy which has little to do with most fantasy not published by WOTC]. If you just convert characters and then try to play d20 fantasy hero everyone is just going to be bored and disappointed because it's easier to just play d20.

 

In my old Greyhawk fantasy hero game I used VPPs for wizard magic [they needed to learn spells from a book and put them in their VPP] and had cleric types buy spells straight [i believe the ability to heal someone or bless them is not something a priest type would rotate. They learn the healing prayer and know it for the rest of their lives]. Basically the same for druids as well.

 

Part of the problem with using a VPP system is that some things in Hero are really expensive to buy with points. Simple spells can quickly rack up active point costs. If you look at the Fantasy Hero Grimoires you see hundreds of spells costing 80 active points or more. That would make one very expensive VPP for a 150 point character. If I were going to play fantasy hero today I would just use the system outlined for the Turakian Age and have spell costs divided by 3. I'm currently doing the same thing with some jedi-like and psionic characters for the star hero world I'm fleshing out. I feel the TA magic system is more unique, more interesting, and more versatile than the d20 system. It also allows players go get away from just mimicking d20 when playing fantasy hero.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: HERO 5E and D20

 

A few people have said it, bit it bears repeating for clarity - Nothing does d20 as well as d20. That's why our group plays both Hero and D&D. When we play Fantasy Hero, we generally try to do something we couldn't readily do in D&D.

 

Probably the biggest difference to come to grips with is that spellcasters can generally keep casting the same spell all day, unlike the D&D Fire & Forget system. It's possible to replicate the Fire & Forget structure, but it's a complex construct, and generally less than a perfect replication. The D&D system handles D&D magic just fine, so why try to duplicate it for another system? Use D&D magic in your D&D game, and create a different system when you play Hero.

[Gadodel]

Re: HERO 5E and D20

 

Thanks everyone, for the good advice.

 

Starting with concepts is a very good idea. I was trying to convert entire stories. I was taking the 'top down' approach rather than the 'bottom up' approach. As Advisors, you pointed out the logistics and mathematical problems with the approach.

 

I am also glad that this didn't become a 'X' vs 'Y' issue. Both systems have respectable merits. Though, I am finding that HERO has the capacity to expand upon archetypes (concepts) without being confined to a particular set of game mechanics (classes et al) This means that I need to decide what I like/need/want from an archetype whilst staying within my experience with HERO.

 

I'll post my first archetype/concept and just jump write in.