Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

[roch]

Hi, I'd like your opinions on what would be a sensible way to model the following:

 

When a character wishes, without concentrating or expending END, and no matter what he's doing, people who see him can't subsequently remember what he looks like (they just "didn't notice"), and electronic devices observing or recording him from any distance him seem to "glitch", go out of focus, suffer from distortion etc.

 

Thanks for your voices, o experienced ones,

 

(_8(0)

[saffo]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

Maybe 'Luck' with some limitation that it only applies to people remembering him?

[TaxiMan]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

Does this work if someone's seen you before when you didn't zap their memory? I.e. can you retroactively wipe someone's memory of your appearance, or is it a one-shot deal? If you can retroactively do it, what happens if they know your name is Sam - can they remember that?

 

If it works retroactively, Mind Control ("forget who was here") works but will wear off. Transform (mental - "forget who was here") is permanent.

 

If it isn't retroactive (you decide beforehand to be unnoticeable), Invisibility with IPE works, but costs a lot (add limitations to your heart's content). Darkness with IPE could also be defined as "they don't see my face". Images isn't as certain (it affects their Perception rolls) but can be cheaper. For true cheese, use Disguise as a Power and add advantages / limitations to fit.

 

Does it work instantaneously, or does it take a little while? If instantaneous, you'll need a big power; otherwise, a smaller cumulative power will work.

[TaxiMan]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

By the way, I'm out of touch - what does (_8(0) mean?

[roch]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

Turn your head sideways, and think of doh-nuts...

 

(_8(0)

 

Mmm....

 

Maybe Invisibilty (Head Only) is the best way to do it? I know that the head will actually be visible, but to all intents and purposes it isn't. Actually I think this could be the way to do it. Talk about lateral thinking! For IPE, I guess the +1/2 option would cover it?

 

Also, why is using Disguise as a Power cheesy? You'd presumably have to take all kinds of Advantages to be able to switch it on instantly: is there something dodgy about doing it this way?

 

Thanks for your input,

 

(_8(0)

[Arkham]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

Invisibility, IPE, 0 end, persistant, always on, with some sort of lim for 'Does not stop people from knowing where you are' or something like that.

 

Or even easier.

Shapeshift, sight, single form 'Nobody in particular'

[TaxiMan]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

I figured the Disguise option would end up really cheap compared to the other methods. Using a Skill to do what a Power might better describe, especially when it cuts the cost by a large factor, is cheese (IMO).

 

Also, if it takes +8 in Advantages to make an ability one way, and +2 using a different approach ... I'd say the +2 method is better. Again, all IMO.

[TaxiMan]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

Oh, and the lim "does not stop people from knowing where you are" sounds like a -1 to -2. Depends on how useful it'll be in your game. It's similar to "useless in combat" + "does not work against cameras". If your game has a lot of investigation and intrigue, it wouldn't be so limiting. If (like my games) combat happens very often and is a major component, closer to -2.

[Arkham]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

Oh' date=' and the lim "does not stop people from knowing where you are" sounds like a -1 to -2. Depends on how useful it'll be in your game. It's similar to "useless in combat" + "does not work against cameras". If your game has a lot of investigation and intrigue, it wouldn't be so limiting. If (like my games) combat happens very often and is a major component, closer to -2.[/quote']

 

Makes me think the way to go would be Shapeshift (Sight), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), to No One In Particular

[TaxiMan]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

Nice Shapeshift idea! From other threads, however, that approach would affect cameras as well. Nice, but didn't sound like what roch had in mind. So we add a limitation, no big deal.

 

But the above makes me wonder if we shouldn't be insisting on Mind Control or Images, since he isn't "really" changing or becoming invisible, or ....

 

Nevermind. The Shapeshift thread has me twisted up - pick an approach you and your GM like and HAVE FUN! The rest is just silliness.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

Distinctive Features: Indistinct

 

It's likely to hurt you as much as help you. For one, you'll never get a second date with a chick. Your old neighbor lady will always call the cops on you ("there's a strange man going into my neighbor's house...").

[pinecone]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

I'm a bit of afan of Invisability:IPE...'cause its funny, add in "Provides no defense vs targeting and you're close "Who did you shoot?" "Ummm I don't know" I can see this being a major issue for team membership..."Who the blazes is in Mr. Nobody's chair?"...

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

Adapted/adopted from the Star Trek Hero document ...

 

EVERYMAN:

A person with this talent looks like everyone else of his race, and is hard to pick out of a lineup or other such event.

 

Sight Group Images, 1" Radius, 0 Endurance, Persistent, Inherent, No Range, Always On, Modifies Self Only, Only to appear plain and indistinguishable to others. 11pts.

 

That about right?

[Dust Raven]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

I like the talent approach, but I wouldn't base it off of Images or Shapeshift. With Images, there's something underneath that can be detected, or at the very least, anyone observing him gets a chance to realize there's something odd about his appearance, which seems to be the opposite of what you're getting at. Shapeshift will replace what is perceived with something else, and that something is rather specific. Instead of seeing what you look like, they'd see the features of whatever you shape shifted into. Great for disquise, but it stills leaves an appearance in people's minds.

 

Invisibility is the best approach in my opinion. If it doesn't affect anything other than what he looks like, it's as simple as Invisibility to Sight Group No Fringe; 0 Endurance, Only To Appear Indistinct, Unnoticable & Unmemorable. I'd call that last a -2, as it robbs the character of all the really useful things about being invisible (like not being seen at all). That would make this ability cost 15 points, and he can turn it on and off as he pleases, but it can't use it while stunned, unconscious or asleep.

[roch]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

So how about:

 

Insignificance: Invisibility to Sight Group , Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Limited Power (only to render features indistinct) (-1 1/2)

 

You can't apply IPE to Invisibility according to Designer.

 

(_8(0)

[Funksaw]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

This sounds extremely similar to the "arcane" power in GURPS Mage: the Ascension - try googling for HERO mage conversions and someone might come up with something.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

So how about:

 

Insignificance: Invisibility to Sight Group , Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Limited Power (only to render features indistinct) (-1 1/2)

 

You can't apply IPE to Invisibility according to Designer.

 

(_8(0)

You'd need No Fringe unless it doesn't work against people up close and personal.

[Silbeg]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

Distinctive Features: Indistinct

 

It's likely to hurt you as much as help you. For one, you'll never get a second date with a chick. Your old neighbor lady will always call the cops on you ("there's a strange man going into my neighbor's house...").

I was thinking of something along those lines, but not as a power/talent instead.

 

My preference would be to use images, however, since this is an issue only for human minds, perhaps...

30 Mental Illusions 6d6, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Inherent (+1/4),
Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible;
+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2)
(105 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Always On (-1/2)

 

I used 6d6, which averages 21 pts of effect, which should give a +10 effect against normals, as well as the majority of supers (all those who don't have mental DEF or high EGOs). However, I would also probably rule that this is a +0 effect, in most cases.

 

As an aside, what to people usually use to post HD constructs on boards these days?

[Armitage]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

How about this:

Mr. Nobody: Change Environment 1" radius, -6 to Sight Group PER Rolls, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (40 Active Points); Only to Prevent Identification (-1 1/2), No Range (-1/2) (13 Real Points).

 

Just adjust the PER modifier to fit how powerful you want the effect to be.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Sorry Officer... Can't Remember What He Looks Like!

 

There are a lot of ways to model an effect like this in the HERO System, all of them with subtle differences and generally all legal.

 

You can treat it as a sense affecting power and model it with Images or Invisibility.

 

You can treat it as a deception power, in which case Shape Shift is ideal.

 

You can treat it as a mental affecting power (interfering w/ Memory) in which case Mind Control or a very mechaniced Mental Illusion could be used.

 

You can treat it as an alteration of the observers, in which case Transform (Mind) could be used.

 

You can treat it as a localized interfernec with PER, in which case Change Environment could be used.

 

You can treat it as an aspect of a "hero id" in which case it's treated as a limitation on the characters powers.

 

You can treat it as a perk with the SFX for a sufficiently high Anonymity perk.

 

You could treat it as a skill, with some combination of concealment, stealth, acting, and disguise layering to make the character difficult to identify.

 

...and so on. Each method has different pros and cons.