MitchellS Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Re: Entangle, Desolidification, and the Quest for Truth You guys are looking for all these situations where it can't work but I can give just as many situations where it can. Please read the section of my quote you all keep ignoring: Desolidification is a stop sign power and so each instance needs to be weighed by the GM. That is the relevant section. There are thousands of instances. Each GM needs to decide for himself how to handle the power. If a player told me he wanted to use desolidification as a defense and then turn it off to attack I'd say now. If he said he wanted to pass through an entangle or wall I'd say yes. I prefer to error on the side of genre. Someone else might prefer to error on the side of rules, or caution, or any other number of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Re: Entangle, Desolidification, and the Quest for Truth Actually, what J'onn would do is this: Phase 12: J'onn floats up to the wall and turns on his Desolid. Phase 2: J'onn passes through the wall, drops the Desolid, and attacks. That lets you do exactly what J'onn does without Desolid becoming too unbalancing. Basically, you have to set up the move. Or he took the teleport power discussed earlier... or he simply has "affects real world" on his powers. Seriously though, if the Desolid is just being a movement power instead of a defense, well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Re: Entangle, Desolidification, and the Quest for Truth I went ahead and permitted it at the time' date=' primarily because the only reason the PC used Desolidification was so she could get in an attack that Phase and her casual STR of 35 wasn't [i']quite[/i] enough to break the Entangle. So it's not like she couldn't have escaped the Entangle anyway even without Desolidification. I've pointed out the relevant text to the player, and he's cool with it. Uhm. Why did she have to use casual STR only? You can use a full attack action to break out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorItron Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Re: Entangle, Desolidification, and the Quest for Truth Don't be. I still do play Magic. More frequently than HERO games (gasp!) simply because of the level of interest in my area. It's a good intellectual challenge (although I will heartily admit the quality of people you tend to meet is...somewhat less than perfect). Are us Hero gamers any more perfect? Take a peek at the NGD boards before answering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Re: Entangle, Desolidification, and the Quest for Truth You guys are looking for all these situations where it can't work but I can give just as many situations where it can. Please read the section of my quote you all keep ignoring: That is the relevant section. There are thousands of instances. Each GM needs to decide for himself how to handle the power. If a player told me he wanted to use desolidification as a defense and then turn it off to attack I'd say now. If he said he wanted to pass through an entangle or wall I'd say yes. I prefer to error on the side of genre. Someone else might prefer to error on the side of rules, or caution, or any other number of things. Well, honestly, unless J'onn was trying to do all this in the middle of combat, I would let him do it too. In fact, I've run games where players had desolid characters and I let them do it. I'm a nice GM. But, once combat kicks in, I'll be a little more strict about the "turning powers on and then turning them back off again" thing, mainly because I've had players try and get cute with that sort of thing before. If there's not a problem in your game, don't worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted January 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Re: Entangle, Desolidification, and the Quest for Truth Uhm. Why did she have to use casual STR only? You can use a full attack action to break out.Precisely because using full strength would be an attack action, and hence have ended the PCs Phase. Using Casual Strength doesn't count as an attack action, and thus if she could have used Casual Strength she could have still moved afterward and attacked. She wanted to escape the Entangle and deck the perpetrator in the same Phase. When you're SPD 4 you want to maximize the efficiency of your actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Re: Entangle, Desolidification, and the Quest for Truth Precisely because using full strength would be an attack action' date=' and hence have ended the PCs Phase. Using Casual Strength doesn't count as an attack action, and thus if she could have used Casual Strength she could have still moved afterward and attacked. She wanted to escape the Entangle and deck the perpetrator in the same Phase. When you're SPD 4 you want to maximize the efficiency of your actions.[/quote'] Uh... can't you make a full phase action after breaking out of an entangle? (As a an exception written into the Entangle rules?) I thought you could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawksmoor Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Re: Entangle, Desolidification, and the Quest for Truth I think that depends on *how* successful you are at breaking out of the entangle. If you are very successful it is like using casual STR; you get either your 1/2 or Full action remaining. Although 5ER might have changed this. Hawksmoor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: Entangle, Desolidification, and the Quest for Truth I think that depends on *how* successful you are at breaking out of the entangle. If you are very successful it is like using casual STR; you get either your 1/2 or Full action remaining. Although 5ER might have changed this. Hawksmoor Your right, Hawksmoor. If you can make an casual attack and break down the entangle, then you still have a full action. This dosen't work with Desolidification, thoe. There is no "degree" of desolidification, your eather desolid or not. And since the base power is for one flat point cost, there is no "casual" desolid. So moveing through the entangle is a half phase action (movement power). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: Entangle, Desolidification, and the Quest for Truth When breaking out of an Entangle, of you roll twice the remaining BODY (after DEF) then you have a full action remaining. If you roll over the BODY, but not twice it, you have a half phase. If you fail to do enough BODY to break out of the Entangle, your Phase ends. FREd p. 283 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: Entangle, Desolidification, and the Quest for Truth Also, I'm not aware of any special rule concerning the use of Casual STR concerning Entangles, though I'll double check. I assume the above rule applied regardless of the method of doing damage. So if you break out using Casual STR, but don't do twice the BODY, then you still only have a Half Phase. I could be wrong on this though (but you'd easily roll twice the BODY vs. most Entangles that you could break out of using Casual STR). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: Entangle, Desolidification, and the Quest for Truth When breaking out of an Entangle' date=' of you roll twice the remaining BODY (after DEF) then you have a full action remaining. If you roll over the BODY, but not twice it, you have a half phase. If you fail to do enough BODY to break out of the Entangle, your Phase ends. FREd p. 283[/quote'] This is explained further in 5ER page 423. As well as what Dust Raven quoted it also states that attempting to break out from an Entangle is NOT an attack action. The same page also repeats that using Casual STR to break out of an Entangle is a 0 phase action. It may not break the entangle (or grab) but if the attempt even rolls just enough to break out the character still has his full phase left. HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: Entangle, Desolidification, and the Quest for Truth re: the teleport-based desolid escape -- you could always have a -0 limitation on it, "Stopped by Affects Desolid, not Affects Teleport". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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