Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

[name_tamer]

A long-time lurker finally speaks up.

 

I've seen several references on the boards referring to the "Slug Curse" or "Curse of the Elder Worm" as an explanation for the Malvans' moral and political decline, but I haven't seen any reference to it in the official Hero materials. Have I missed a reference in my reading (I have most of the books I think might contain a reference, including Champions Universe, CKC, Galactic Champions, and Terran Empire, but I may have missed it -- a page reference would be great), or is this someone's campaign storyline?

 

Thanks in advance

[BlackSword]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

Don't have the book with me, but I believe that it is in the game master section of Terran Empire.

[MitchellS]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

Yes, it's from Terran Empire. Basically 200,000 years ago the Malvans and Elder Worms had a war and the EW cursed the Malvans. The curse is the reason Malvan society has been in decline. The curse has taken away the Malvan's will to achieve. The Malvans don't even remember this.

[name_tamer]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

Thanks for the responses. I found the reference.

[Jhamin]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

Yes' date=' it's from Terran Empire. Basically 200,000 years ago the Malvans and Elder Worms had a war and the EW cursed the Malvans. The curse is the reason Malvan society has been in decline. The curse has taken away the Malvan's will to achieve. The Malvans don't even remember this.[/quote']

 

 

Huh. Thats kind of cool.

 

Is it strictly a "racial psychology" thing or does it boil down on some level to the individual?

If so, how do the Firewings escape it? (Or at least Firewing 3000?)

[OddHat]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

200,000 years, and all the curse has done was keep the Malvans from achieving more?

 

The Elder Worms were kinda skimpin on the curse research and development budget, eh?

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

Eh, they're tired. You should have seen them when they were the In-The-Peak-of-Their-Prime Worms.

[Lightray]

Of course, if that was how pathetic the Wormies were 200,000 years ago, kind of makes Slug not-so-terrifying now.

 

What's he going to be able to do - curse you to spend more time on the Internet?

 

oooh. scary.

[MitchellS]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

Huh. Thats kind of cool.

 

Is it strictly a "racial psychology" thing or does it boil down on some level to the individual?

If so, how do the Firewings escape it? (Or at least Firewing 3000?)

I think it's fascinating myself. The Golden Hunters Of Malva basically hunted down and wiped out the Elder Worm and the Thane the EW created to protect them from the Malvans. This led the EW to flee to earth to hide from the Malvans. For 200,000 years Malvan society has not advanced, and has only become complacent and apathetic due to the curse. They are still the most advanced species in the galaxy and they haven't evolved or changed in all that time.

 

It's basically a 0 point disadvantage and just part of the Malvan social make up. Firewing is slightly different than the common Malvan due to his flame experience.

[Lupus]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

I think it's fascinating myself. The Golden Hunters Of Malva basically hunted down and wiped out the Elder Worm and the Thane the EW created to protect them from the Malvans. This led the EW to flee to earth to hide from the Malvans. For 200,000 years Malvan society has not advanced, and has only become complacent and apathetic due to the curse. They are still the most advanced species in the galaxy and they haven't evolved or changed in all that time.

 

It's basically a 0 point disadvantage and just part of the Malvan social make up. Firewing is slightly different than the common Malvan due to his flame experience.

Haven't they also lost their entire empire? I seem to remember it used to span hundreds of stars, but is now just one planet.

 

If that's the result of the curse, then you could say the EW are responsible for the deaths of billions, if not trillions, of Malvans as their outlying planets were abandoned or invaded.

 

I'd call that hard-core. The curse isn't too heinous on the surface, but hey - it affected an entire species. That's not something just anyone can do.

[MitchellS]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

You know a lot of people say they don't like the meta concept of the hero universe but I think it's pretty cool. Having all these little bits and pieces tie together from different eras is really a nice touch. It builds a nice continuity throughout the lines. Kudos to Darren or Steve for really designing all the tie-ins. I'd love to see a Hero Universe Timeline published one day that sort of fills in all the details.

 

I suppose it's also good that it can be easily ignored, though the dislikers of the meta concept seem to forget that. The only negative aspect of it is that it's spread through so many different books that it's not always easily comprehended.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

Mechanically, yeah, the Curse is a 0 point limit, since it doesn't really effect individual Malvan's per se. Certainly, unusual Malvans can be individually effective.

 

However, before casually denigrating the effect of the Curse, think about it this way:

 

Once, there was a noble ( as assumptions, yes, but thematically, agroup like the Elder Worm don't have bad guys as their big enemy ) race called the Malvans. They were the eternal enemies of the foul Elder Worm, fighting them across the galaxy, and eventually achieving victory, driving back the forces of darkness, and eventually crushing the Elder Worm, and all but eliminating them.

 

However, rather than go quietly into defeat, the Elder Worm unleashed a massive Curse on the Malvan people as a whole. It did not act swiftly, but under its influence, the Malvans inexorably fell into corruption and decadence, as their ability to believe in anything gradually fell away, leaving a desicated husk of a culture not capable of even sustaining their old achievements, and interested in nothing more than passing pleasures. . . the more perverse and grotesque, the better.

 

Thus, an entire race that once engaged in a bitter war to the very end against beings of purest evil, is reduced to a race that does the most hideous evils amongst and on itself, simply for *entertainment*. They took a people that were ( IMHO ) on the whole Lawful Good, and perverted their own souls until they are on the whole more like Chaotic Evil. They turned an entire race into exactly what they would have most despised beforehand.

 

What you call "keeping them from achieving more," I call "the involuntary damnation of an entire race."

[MitchellS]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

What you call "keeping them from achieving more' date='" I call "the involuntary damnation of an entire race."[/quote']

Technically losing the will to achieve is what TE says about them, not me. Your phrasing is much more dramatic and interesting though.

[OddHat]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

Mechanically, yeah, the Curse is a 0 point limit, since it doesn't really effect individual Malvan's per se. Certainly, unusual Malvans can be individually effective.

 

However, before casually denigrating the effect of the Curse, think about it this way:

 

Once, there was a noble ( as assumptions, yes, but thematically, agroup like the Elder Worm don't have bad guys as their big enemy ) race called the Malvans. They were the eternal enemies of the foul Elder Worm, fighting them across the galaxy, and eventually achieving victory, driving back the forces of darkness, and eventually crushing the Elder Worm, and all but eliminating them.

 

However, rather than go quietly into defeat, the Elder Worm unleashed a massive Curse on the Malvan people as a whole. It did not act swiftly, but under its influence, the Malvans inexorably fell into corruption and decadence, as their ability to believe in anything gradually fell away, leaving a desicated husk of a culture not capable of even sustaining their old achievements, and interested in nothing more than passing pleasures. . . the more perverse and grotesque, the better.

 

Thus, an entire race that once engaged in a bitter war to the very end against beings of purest evil, is reduced to a race that does the most hideous evils amongst and on itself, simply for *entertainment*. They took a people that were ( IMHO ) on the whole Lawful Good, and perverted their own souls until they are on the whole more like Chaotic Evil. They turned an entire race into exactly what they would have most despised beforehand.

 

What you call "keeping them from achieving more," I call "the involuntary damnation of an entire race."

 

So you're sure the the curse was not "You will follow the nomal, historically well established course of Empire, and eventually grow decadent, corrupt and inefectual?"

 

It reminds me of the King of the Universe from the Little Prince. He could order the sun to rise and set, so long as he ordered it to do so at the usual times and in the usual ways.

[CBikle]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

If nothing else, the curse prevented the Malvans from chasing the Elder

Worm across the universe, giving the EW plenty of time to regroup.

[Lightray]

It reminds me of the King of the Universe from the Little Prince. He could order the sun to rise and set' date=' so long as he ordered it to do so at the usual times and in the usual ways. [/quote']

GLENDOWER: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.

 

HOTSPUR: Why, so can I, or so can any man;

But will they come when you do call for them?

 

- 1 Henry IV, III, i

[BcAugust]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

So you're sure the the curse was not "You will follow the nomal, historically well established course of Empire, and eventually grow decadent, corrupt and inefectual?"

 

It reminds me of the King of the Universe from the Little Prince. He could order the sun to rise and set, so long as he ordered it to do so at the usual times and in the usual ways.

Um, no. The curse was the death of ambition. Heck, it's a tribute to Malva in the past that their world is still standing in a sort of stasis, rather then having died out completely. Heck, it's amazing they've lasted this long, considering one of the effects of the curse is basically racial sucide.

 

Think of that. The curse has affected them so deeply they don't want children, as a race. Malva doesn't have any enemies that could take it down. Heck, it doesn't even have any internal enemies. What's killing it is that they can't care enough as a race, to continue. If you don't think that is potent, well...

[OddHat]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

Um' date=' no. The curse was the death of [i']ambition[/i]. Heck, it's a tribute to Malva in the past that their world is still standing in a sort of stasis, rather then having died out completely. Heck, it's amazing they've lasted this long, considering one of the effects of the curse is basically racial sucide.

 

Think of that. The curse has affected them so deeply they don't want children, as a race. Malva doesn't have any enemies that could take it down. Heck, it doesn't even have any internal enemies. What's killing it is that they can't care enough as a race, to continue. If you don't think that is potent, well...

 

It took 200,000 years, and it still hasn't wiped them out. Cursing them with incurable syphilis would have been faster. Heck, cursing them to be have no sense of direction would have been faster.

[Lightray]

Heck, it's amazing they've lasted this long, considering one of the effects of the curse is basically racial sucide.

 

...

 

Heck, it doesn't even have any internal enemies.

If you're viewing the curse in that manner, then the curse itself is actually helping them, in some ways, to stay around.

 

Without ambition, they don't have any internal enemies. No ambitious dictators, no ambitious criminals, no ambitious murders. Their crime and death tolls probably plummeted.

 

And the lack of external enemies removes another major threat to their existence. Malva doesn't get drawn into dangerous conflicts, because they don't get drawn into anything. They just sit there, ignoring everybody, and since they're not involved in anything, everybody tends to ignore Malva in return.

 

It's not really surprising that they've lingered 200,000 years. To make a change in their status would require some sort of effort.

 

All this assumes, of course, that the curse was intended to take away their ambition - and didn't do something else that had a similar effect (e.g., "Your race will never desire children" or "Your race will become self-centered navel-gazers").

[Chuckg]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

It took 200' date='000 years, and it still hasn't wiped them out. Cursing them with incurable syphilis would have been faster. Heck, cursing them to be have no sense of direction would have been faster. [/quote']

 

The Elder Worm didn't want the Malvans to /die/, they wanted them to /suffer/.

 

And cursing what was formerly the greatest and most glorious species in the galaxy to spend almost 100 times the length of all human recorded history in a debased condition where they have no motivations above the purely animal impulses of feeding, fornicating, and scratching where it itches... and going from ruling the known galaxy to a decaying remnant on a few planets...

 

... and then, you know, spending all of eternity *after* they die damned for their now-innumerable sins and decadences...

 

... as revenges go, it's the most epic thing I've ever seen. The Malvans weren't *lucky* enough to be allowed to die fast. Nope, they've been dying slowly and in ignominy for longer than most species have been sentient.

 

You point out how safe and secure Malva is. I might remind you that they existed as a race of nigh-godlike power dominating the known galaxy for hundreds of thousands of years, and are now a bunch of decadent aristocrats playing group grope on only one planet (and a few even more vestigial colonies), whose infrastructure survives only because the machines are automatically self-maintaining, as most everybody has forgotten how they work, even.

 

As 'survival' goes, that sucks.

 

As for what the curse was 'intended' to do -- err, IIRC, the wording in the DM's section of 'Terran Empire' isn't *that* ambiguous.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

Also keep in mind that the Elder Worm put this curse on the entire species . . . not just one individual, or a group of individuals, but on several million if not several billion individuals at once (I don't have my TE books handy so I don't recall the exact population numbers).

[Chuckg]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

Given that at their height Malva was spread out all over the galaxy and owning everyone's lunch... I'd say that the total population figure at that point was likely in excess that of the entire Terran Empire by a factor of at least two, which would mean I estimate at least two *trillion*.

 

Now, of course, there's only a few million Malvans left...

[Wanderer]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

Since I'm beginning to find this topic rather interesting for my preferred mystic/cosmic take on CU, does TE give any further information on the workings of the curse ? Are the Kings of Edom involved in it (since the EW are their preferred servant race) ? Are any info/hints/ideas/plot hooks on how it might be removed, and immediate and long-term effects of the removal, either in modern CU or in the GC age ?

 

Removing the curse is beginning to look like an excellent quest for a cosmic-level supergroup (especially one with links to malvans/worms/edomites).

 

I suggest also the new Sentinels (Cyrande, anyone ?) to start taking notes

[BcAugust]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

Since I'm beginning to find this topic rather interesting for my preferred mystic/cosmic take on CU, does TE give any further information on the workings of the curse ? Are the Kings of Edom involved in it (since the EW are their preferred servant race) ? Are any info/hints/ideas/plot hooks on how it might be removed, and immediate and long-term effects of the removal, either in modern CU or in the GC age ?

 

Removing the curse is beginning to look like an excellent quest for a cosmic-level supergroup (especially one with links to malvans/worms/edomites).

 

I suggest also the new Sentinels (Cyrande, anyone ?) to start taking notes

Oh, we have. After all, it is stated in canon at least one Malvan is immune to the curse. (Firewing) And Cyrande is immune, as well. Though really, any attempt to break the curse runs into the problem of what happens next...

 

After all, no matter what the Malvans were, what they are now... would require careful handling.

[Wanderer]

Re: Malvan/Elder Worm Curse

 

Oh' date=' we [i']have[/i]. After all, it is stated in canon at least one Malvan is immune to the curse. (Firewing) And Cyrande is immune, as well. Though really, any attempt to break the curse runs into the problem of what happens next...

 

After all, no matter what the Malvans were, what they are now... would require careful handling.

 

Indeed, removing the curse without an active attempt to correct some of the ingrained effects of millennia of decadence might have... interesting results. One of the most likely scenarios: Malvan Empire taking an expansionistic impulse much like Imperial Rome: conquering the galaxy to channel its resources into fueling the decadent pastimes of the malvan elite. Conquering Earth would be especially a tempting prize: all those juicy superhuman to bring to the gladiator games !. Or, in a slightly more ambigous take, make them an "honorable enemy" once they realize they have neglected their racial destiny, and it's their "malvan humanoid burden" duty to conquer all of the galaxy to bring those new races to share the achievements of the malvan civilization (and being the most advanced civilization, they'd have a point, just like ancient Rome !!).

 

Nonetheless, idealistic heroes would likely feel a strong urge to undo the curse anyway, once they realize the truth behind the curse: after all, Malvans once were a noble and heroic civilization that was unjustly brought down by an insidious curse for their efforts to contain a loathsome race of servants of ultimate evil.