Land Mines

[crayadder]

If I want to make a land mine do I have to buy both Trigger and delayed effect to simulate the fact that the power activates later and by a set circumstance?

 

Also, if I wanted to cover the mine with a layer of dirt or grass, would that require me to purchase invisible power effects?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Land Mines

 

If I want to make a land mine do I have to buy both Trigger and delayed effect to simulate the fact that the power activates later and by a set circumstance?

 

Also, if I wanted to cover the mine with a layer of dirt or grass, would that require me to purchase invisible power effects?

 

1.If you want the attack power called 'land mine' to go off if either:

time X elapses. (delayed effect)

Y happens near mine. (trigger)

 

then yes, you would need to buy both advantages.

 

2. If the attack power is bought through a focus I would use the character's concealment skill to determine how well it is hidden from its intended target(s).

 

But, If you are just wanting to define a real world version of a land mine I wouldn't worry too much on the cost unless this is something that the character is going to be carrying as regular equipment AND the character is for a Champions or Dark Champions setting that requires that all items be paid for unlike standard Heroic rules.

 

HM

[Barton]

Re: Land Mines

 

Invisible power effects would be needed for plastic or very hard to detect land mines. Also remember not all land mines are designed to kill. Modern land mines are small are designed to maim. The idea is to cause the enemy to spend time/resources treating the wounded. Since they are plastic, small, and cheap they have been widely used in the Third World (maybe 60 million or more). The killing ones could be like the claymore (essentially a giant shot shell, say 2d6 KA, explosion) or a antitank mine (explosion, say 4d6 KA, AP) or antipersonnel (2d6 KA). The ones that maim would do 1d6 but would effect the foot area if you use hit locations.

[crayadder]

Re: Land Mines

 

1.If you want the attack power called 'land mine' to go off if either:

time X elapses. (delayed effect)

Y happens near mine. (trigger)

 

then yes, you would need to buy both advantages.

 

2. If the attack power is bought through a focus I would use the character's concealment skill to determine how well it is hidden from its intended target(s).

 

But, If you are just wanting to define a real world version of a land mine I wouldn't worry too much on the cost unless this is something that the character is going to be carrying as regular equipment AND the character is for a Champions or Dark Champions setting that requires that all items be paid for unlike standard Heroic rules.

 

HM

 

I don't want a timed detonation. The only way for it to go off is by tripping the trigger. Also, if I buy No Range on it to simulate that I have to place the mines, do I have to stay next to them for them to work or can I walk away to hide until someone comes along to trigger the mine?

 

edit - the compaign is high powered and the mines are IAF.

[Sociotard]

Re: Land Mines

 

I'm pretty Sure the no range would still let you scamper away.

 

And if it's high powered, how annoying do you want these mines to be to their targets? Leathal? Just painful?

[crayadder]

Re: Land Mines

 

They are in a 100pt multipower pool.

 

Thanks for the quick responses by the way

 

Love your avatar Sociotard!

[Dust Raven]

Re: Land Mines

 

You wouldn't need both Time Delay and Trigger if the only way to set them off is by applying enough pressure (or however mines are being set off these days).

 

All of the Limitations that affect how a Power is used are typically only applied during the time the Triggered Power is set up. Some, like No Range, would affect how the Power affects it's target (in this case, the target has to be in the same hex the mine was placed in).

 

Concealment. The way I handle Obvious and Inobvious Foci is thus: If you were to hold the Focus out in your hand, set it on a table in plain view, etc. and you could tell what it was, or at least in general what it's likely purpose is, the Focus is Obvious. If you can't, then it's probably Inobvious. I consider most land mines to be Obvious. Though there's a lot of people who've never seen one, for those who have they'll know right away.

 

Concealing an Obvious Focus just uses the Concealment skill and common sense.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Land Mines

 

I'm confused: delayed effect has nothing to do with timers: you can use trigger for either a pressure mine or a timed mine at the +1/4 level or both atthe +1/2 level.

 

Buying delayed effect would simulate doing a lengthy set-up before using the mine: manufacturing it, for instance, and is just a way of mitigating limitations on the power like extra time, gestures and incantations.

 

Frankly I wouldn't think you would need it just to buy a land mine and set it: you'd only need delayed effect if you were making all of your own land mines, which is probably a bit silly.

 

To buy a land mine, take trigger (pressure) (+1/4), takes a full turn to set (-1/2) and can misfire (-1/4) for a total limitation of -1/2. Forget delayed effect.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Land Mines

 

To buy a land mine' date=' take trigger (pressure) (+1/4), takes a full turn to set (-1/2) and can misfire (-1/4) for a total limitation of -1/2. Forget delayed effect.[/quote']

 

I'm counting -3/4 there, Sean.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Land Mines

 

I'm counting -3/4 there' date=' Sean.[/quote']

 

Never quite sure on this: does a modified advantage become a limitation? I assumed it did, so the takes a full turn to set (-1/2) and can misfire (-1/4) reduced the +1/4, but I'm not sure if I'm doing it right....(as usual )

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Land Mines

 

Never quite sure on this: does a modified advantage become a limitation? I assumed it did' date=' [i']so the takes a full turn to set (-1/2) and can misfire (-1/4)[/i] reduced the +1/4, but I'm not sure if I'm doing it right....(as usual )

 

No, those limitations apply to the whole power, not just the advantage.

 

Even if it applied to the advantage, it wouldn't work out like you had it.

 

2D6 RKA

Trigger (+1/4) (8 points)

Full turn to set (-1/2)

Can misfire (-1/4)

 

Those would put a -3/4 limitation on the 8 points, meaning it would cost like 5 points instead of the full 8. That's how you'd do it, if the limitations applied only to the advantage.

[Silbeg]

Re: Land Mines

 

No, those limitations apply to the whole power, not just the advantage.

 

Even if it applied to the advantage, it wouldn't work out like you had it.

 

2D6 RKA

Trigger (+1/4) (8 points)

Full turn to set (-1/2)

Can misfire (-1/4)

 

Those would put a -3/4 limitation on the 8 points, meaning it would cost like 5 points instead of the full 8. That's how you'd do it, if the limitations applied only to the advantage.

 

FYI - as calculated by HeroDesigner:

 

37 RKA 2d6, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset, Misfire; +1/4) (37 Active Points)

[crayadder]

Re: Land Mines

 

You wouldn't need both Time Delay and Trigger if the only way to set them off is by applying enough pressure (or however mines are being set off these days).

 

All of the Limitations that affect how a Power is used are typically only applied during the time the Triggered Power is set up. Some, like No Range, would affect how the Power affects it's target (in this case, the target has to be in the same hex the mine was placed in).

 

Concealment. The way I handle Obvious and Inobvious Foci is thus: If you were to hold the Focus out in your hand, set it on a table in plain view, etc. and you could tell what it was, or at least in general what it's likely purpose is, the Focus is Obvious. If you can't, then it's probably Inobvious. I consider most land mines to be Obvious. Though there's a lot of people who've never seen one, for those who have they'll know right away.

 

Concealing an Obvious Focus just uses the Concealment skill and common sense.

 

Very helpful, thanks Dust Raven . In this particular instance the mines are kept on the character's body in a compartment so are inobvious, but if someone knows they are their they are easy to remove - accessible. If that isn't how it works then I am sure someone will let set me straight.

 

Buying delayed effect would simulate doing a lengthy set-up before using the mine: manufacturing it, for instance, and is just a way of mitigating limitations on the power like extra time, gestures and incantations.

 

Frankly I wouldn't think you would need it just to buy a land mine and set it: you'd only need delayed effect if you were making all of your own land mines, which is probably a bit silly.

 

Hmmm... well my character was supposed to be building his own since they are beyond the tech of the world he is on. Is it necessary to have delayed effect or can you explain away their creation through story? Say I have 12 charges on it, how would that affect the power?

[shadowcat1313]

Re: Land Mines

 

as far as concealment goes, some mines are non magnetic or at least harder to detect with standard mine detection gear, would you buy it as a minus to perception or just partially invisible power effects?

 

then theres special mines like the Claymore or bouncing betty

or some of the little mines the russians scattered in afghanistan that looked like childrens toys

then theres the mines scattered by tube artillery or rocket launchers

 

The Claymore would be easy to model, and the bouncing betty for that matter, for the bouncing betty would you use hit locations? or just overall damage?

[Dust Raven]

Re: Land Mines

 

Never quite sure on this: does a modified advantage become a limitation? I assumed it did' date=' [i']so the takes a full turn to set (-1/2) and can misfire (-1/4)[/i] reduced the +1/4, but I'm not sure if I'm doing it right....(as usual :) )

 

Duh! It's been a long time since I used Trigger, and I forgot that Misfire modified the value of the Advantage and wasn't it's own Limitation.

[crayadder]

Re: Land Mines

 

Shadowcat,

 

I think I would go with minus perception to make the mines really hard to detect, and overall damage would be more in keeping with the explosive power of bouncing bettys, imho.

[crayadder]

Re: Land Mines

 

Ok, without delayed effect do you have to create the mines on the spot, or can you premake them somewhere else, carry them around, and then plant them?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Land Mines

 

FYI - as calculated by HeroDesigner:

 

37 RKA 2d6, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset, Misfire; +1/4) (37 Active Points)

 

How strange: it appears that (at least in HeroDesigner) you can't reduce the value of the advantage so that it becomes a limitation - or the cost would have been 20. Thanks for pointing that out - I'll check the beek tonight.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Land Mines

 

Ok' date=' without delayed effect do you have to create the mines on the spot, or can you premake them somewhere else, carry them around, and then plant them?[/quote']

 

It depends on the character and the campaign. For the most part, thinks like building equipment is done "off screen" and is just part of the SFX of how a particular Focus works. What you've paid for is the ability to set X number of mines in so much time that do so much damage. Where you've got them is up to you and the GM, but you've got them.

 

Think of Delayed Effect as being the Hero System counterpart to D&D's spell preperation. It allows you to prepare so many Powers with all kinds of lengthy prep time and have them "ready" for the rest of the day. That doesn't sound much like how your Land Mine is supposed to work.

[crayadder]

Re: Land Mines

 

Think of Delayed Effect as being the Hero System counterpart to D&D's spell preperation. It allows you to prepare so many Powers with all kinds of lengthy prep time and have them "ready" for the rest of the day. That doesn't sound much like how your Land Mine is supposed to work.

 

I don't mean to be dense, but wouldn't building a mine in your basement at 2 in the morning then carrying it around with you all day and finally setting it in a doorway that evening fall under that description for delayed effect?

[Dust Raven]

Re: Land Mines

 

I don't mean to be dense' date=' but wouldn't building a mine in your basement at 2 in the morning then carrying it around with you all day and finally setting it in a doorway that evening fall under that description for delayed effect?[/quote']

 

Well, yes. But it would also fall under the description of just having an Attack Power with Focus and Trigger (and no Delayed Effect). Keep in mind that Delayed Effect is specifically geared toward heroic level games (specifically fantasy) and is not generally appropriate for superheroic. Of course, if the character has to spend the time each day building new ones, even ones he didn't use, then it could be appropriate. Otherwise I'd say don't bother with it.

[crayadder]

Re: Land Mines

 

That helps Dust. Thanks very much for the patience, sometimes I'm a little slow .

[Dust Raven]

Re: Land Mines

 

That helps Dust. Thanks very much for the patience' date=' sometimes I'm a little slow .[/quote']

 

No problem. You could always think of yourself as being thorough rather than slow.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Land Mines

 

That helps Dust. Thanks very much for the patience' date=' sometimes I'm a little slow .[/quote']

 

 

Sounds like you bought INT with the extra time limitation...in which case you might want to buy delayed effect for your INT so you can prepare during down-time, and be quick when you need to.

[crayadder]

Re: Land Mines